[Adam_F_Collins]

How are holes measured for length?
Is it a line right down the middle from the centre of the tee to the centre of the green?

[Michael Moore]

I believe that the USGA measures from the back of the farthest tee box, down the middle of the fairway, to the center of the green.

I have some nice yardage books in the pipeline. The difference in yardage between the inside and the outside of the dogleg is remarkable.

[Tyler Kearns]

Adam,

Golf holes are measured from the center of each tee to the middle of the fairway or turning point (at a prescribed length ex. 250 yds., this length likely varies between golf associations), and then to the centre of the green. I believe if two markers share the same tee, the length of the tee is divided in half, and the starting point for the back tee would then start halfway between the middle and the back of the tee.

TK

[Michael Moore]

From the USGA handicapping material. From the center of the tee box along the "designed line of play".


12-1. Starting Point: Permanent Markers
 
The starting point from which each hole is measured must be defined. Normally the middle of the teeing area is used. (See Course Set-up, Section 15-2.) Opposite this starting point, a visible permanent yardage marker such as a concrete slab, metal plate or pipe set flush with the ground must be installed at the side of the tee. Permanent markers are essential. It is recommended that the hole yardage be visible on the marker. Permanent yardage markers should be installed at the side of each set of tees. If alternate tee areas are used, it is important that permanent yardage markers be installed on each area.

On a nine-hole course, if separate tees or tee-markers are used for each nine of an 18-hole round, separate measurements and permanent yardage markers shall be established for each nine. The yardage markers (and their respective tee-markers) for each nine should be uniquely identifiable.
 
12-2. Measuring
 
 a. How To Measure

Each hole shall be measured horizontally (air line) by an electronic measurement device, or with steel tape or surveying instruments, from the permanent yardage marker for every teeing area on the golf course to the center of the green. The measurement is along the designed line of play. Any competent individual may perform course measurement, subject to review and checking by the golf association that issues USGA Course Ratings to the golf club. Yardages on the scorecard should accurately reflect this measurement. Accurate measurements to the nearest yard are very important.

A hole with a dogleg shall be measured on a straight line from the tee to the center of the fairway at the dogleg. The measurement shall continue from that point on a straight line to the center of the green.
 

[Adam_F_Collins]

Thanks, guys.

A

[John_Conley]

I believe that the USGA measures from the back of the farthest tee box, down the middle of the fairway, to the center of the green.

I have some nice yardage books in the pipeline. The difference in yardage between the inside and the outside of the dogleg is remarkable.

How much is it?

I'm guessing a 420 hole varies between 400 and 440 depending on the line, or maybe 405 to 435.  I'd be surprised if it is less than 30 yards difference.

[JohnV]

John, it depends on the width of the fairway and the angle of the dogleg, but it can be significant.  As Michael said in his quote from the USGA, we try to measure to the turning point in the center of the fairway.

[Michael Moore]

What happened to Pete Galea's post? Last night he opened a can of cartographic whoop-ass on us, and now it is gone.

John, you are right on the money. Here's a real world example. When Sweeney and I came to the twelfth hole at Cape Arundel, things were getting away from me and I needed to make something happen. The hole is 415 yards, the fairway is 50 yards wide, and it turns significantly, perhaps 40 degrees.

As Matt Ward might say, I hit a superb drive over the trees to the inside corner. Sweeney hit to the very outside of the dogleg. Research reveals that I played the hole at 407 and that my noble opponent elected a route that measures 434.

[Peter Galea]

Here it is.

I measure the length of a hole using a theodolite or "total instrument." This is a laser measuring device used by surveyors. It consists of the instrument and a reflective prism. Yes, it is overkill but it is something that I can rent locally and with which I am familiar. The device is accurate to within an inch when used properly at the distances I measure. I work backwards first determining the center of the green. This is done either with the instrmument or a tape, finding the front and back edge of the green, then dividing by 2. When the center of the green  is found, I place the theodolite on that spot and "shoot" back to the turning point (on the centerline). This distance is recorded and the machine is moved to that point. From there the shot is taken to the center of the tee adjacent to the permanent monuments. Each distance is recorded, front, middle and back. The two measurements (green to turning point, and turning point to tee) are added to get the total length of the hole. These are "line of sight" measurements where elevation change is not a factor.  Probably more than you wanted to know, but this is the procedure I use.

[Scott Seward]

We (NorCal) are using a Trimble GPS pack. It is sub 6cm in accuracy and is wonderful because you don;t have to rely on anyone holding a reflector (meaning you don;t have to trust thay are in the right spot).

Doglegs are a matter of instinct and experience in my mind. I use the 250 yard guideline, but because most architects are putting their turn points in at 275-300, this can lead to some unusual situations. But becaue we won;t accept measrements from any other source, it can be guaranteed that there is consistency from course to course. For instance, since ionly three people inour region measure course, and we all do it the same (USGA) way, it can be assumed that there is consistency in measurements and in turn, ratings. Since yardage is the overwhelming influence in rating, this consistency becomes that much more important.

It can downright hilarious to see the lengths some course will go to to appear longer.

[peter_p]

Scott,
I asked a question on another thread (Slope/Jeff Brauer) about measuring elevation changes. More appropriate here.
Huck deferred to you.

You have a drop shot par 3, horizontal distance 150 yards,
40 yard vertical drop, which renders a diagonal of 155 yards from tee to green.

A. What yardage shows on the card?
B. If this hole was measured five years ago vs being measured today, would changes in equipment or applications make any difference?

[TEPaul]

The fact that a dogleg hole is measured to the turning point in the fairway and then to the center of the green means that it's not so impressive that Long John Hurley from Nebraska flew his 3 wood from the tee onto the green on that 310 yard first hole at Philadelphia C.C. during the second day of qualifying for the US Amateur.

This must mean that Long John only flew his 3 wood approximately 290 yards (even if he did put quite a nie draw on it). This means that from now on I'll be forced to call Long John Hurley from Nebraska a wimp and a weakling!!

[wsmorrison]

More amazing than hitting a 3-wood 310 yards to the first at Philadelphia is that he found the green with the shot.  That is one shallow green (it used to be shallower by about 30%) with some menacing bunkers between the tee and the green.  He must have hit that one high in the air with perfect distance control.

[Scott Seward]

You have a drop shot par 3, horizontal distance 150 yards,
40 yard vertical drop, which renders a diagonal of 155 yards from tee to green.


A. What yardage shows on the card?

150 yards

B. If this hole was measured five years ago vs being measured today, would changes in equipment or applications make any difference?

No - the laser would measure the same as a GPS. The GPS just allows us not to have to bounce the laser off anything. The drop in the hole you mentioned is factored into the course rating, but for yardage , we want raw yardage, meaning horizontal distance.

[Forrest Richardson]

There is no standard, which I have long wished for.

At the Wigwam Gold, for example, the yardage was measured by a sprinkler head marking company — the result: Yardages measured to the nearest sprinkler head, regardless of whether this happened to be inside or outside the dog-leg. Also, it varies the length of the tee shot and second shot.

Perhaps the biggest offender is second shots on par-5s. Very often state associations will measure a par-5 tee shot (let's say at 250-yards) and then take direct aim toward the green — instead of taking a 200-yard second shot to a landing point, and then a third shot to the green. The result is a cheat on yardage; almost always less than measured by the centerline as designed.

Fig. 5-17 in Routing the Golf Course has a handy table which shows the resulting yardage increase for each degree of angle in a dog-leg. The table is aptly titled "YARDAGE ADDITION RESULTING FROM DOGLEG ANGLE".

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Measurement of any kind should be eliminated from the game. Par too.

With knowledge of distance in our mind, we eliminate the charm of playing the course and all of its natural and admirable features. I suggest to anyof you that need yardage or distance to the pin, play a round at a suitable course without it. See how good your actual eye is. To me that score will be your real score without the benefits of outside help or resource.

Now when it comes to measurements for the workings of the course in the field, I recently had the privalige of mapping out a part of a course with a Trimble unit and Tablet PC GPS system and it was breathtaking and the accuracy was astounding. I would suggest any of you superintendents out there, wanting to know where everything is, to hire someone like a Larry Rogers who know these things from terrafirma to outer space and can help in any regard.

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