Pins at the edge - at your course?

[johnk]

I've noticed on two courses I play regularly that the pins are being set closer to the edge of the green than ever before.  On Friday, 8 pins at my local muni were within 4-6 yards of an edge of the green!  (I started to pace it off after the 3rd one...)

That's closer to the edges than usual.  4yds from one side is really not much.  And I think it's a trend.

I wonder if anyone else has noticed this on their home course(s) - and I wonder if it's because of TV/PGA tour tucking a lot more pins?

[Joe Hancock]

John,

On my course, if the pins are set 4-6 yards from an edge, they're probably only 2-3 yards from the opposite edge...

Yea, our greens are small, but I'm exaggerating. We do use the edges on purpose....for strategic and agronomic reasons.

Joe

[Joel_Stewart]

I haven't noticed anything but this post does remind me of one Pat Mucci posted about a year ago regarding his greens keeper started placing pins in different positions and really changed the look and feel of the course.   I sent an email to our super and asked him to remind his staff to change things around a little (different pin spots) which would make things interesting.   It lasted about 3 weeks, and now we are back to the usual spots.

[A.G._Crockett]

We have generally small greens, and we have been setting pins near the edge a lot this summer just to save the green from traffic.  Everything is so stressed at this point that every little bit helps.

I was pleased in the first round of our club championship today that the super and pro did NOT do this, and won't tomorrow.  It makes things hugely slower in tournament play.

[John_Cullum]

Our hole cutters really aren't familiar with strategery on the course. We're just glad if they keep them on the greens.

[Patrick_Mucci]

AG Crockett,

We also have small greens with more slopes than contours and the practice of varying our hole locations, especially to the periphery of the greens is terrific.

We've been doing it for several years.

At first there was an element who opposed the concept.
In reality it was because of THEIR lack of course management skills, and their lack of understanding that they didn't have course management skills.

But, in general, the new challenges presented are viewed favorably, with the usual complaint of a few who fail to properly navigate a particular green on a given day.

1. It forces one to think.
2. It forces one to look ahead to see where the holes are
    located. (only two greens can't be previewed as you play
   your round) so that you may tack your way around the golf
   course.
3. It also forces one to understand the consequences of
    missing the green to the short side.

However, few golfers understand the relationship and need to possess items # 1, # 2 and # 3 above.

I play with a group of fellows whose handicaps range from high to low.  Very few of the group manage the edge hole locations adequately.
Very few members understand why they took the score they did and usually relate their score, solely to execution rather than course management and execution.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

My college course, Rutgers GC, has been putting pins/holes both close to the edge as well as close to slopes, for most of the past three years, in a means to toughen up the course.  

It's only about 6,300 or so from the back tees, and relatively flat--you can have at most of the par 4 holes with a driver and sand or lob wedge.  

I had asked a high-ranking member of the AD I played with once about it, and he answered it was a measure to give the course some challenge--it's a relatively compact site, not a whole lot of room to expand it.  

[Tom_Doak]

I believe that course set-up is the most overlooked aspect of golf.  It is the victim of political correctness -- superintendents don't take chances doing anything interesting for fear some member will be offended.

All it takes to make a course different from day to day is:

a)  put the hole locations on three holes in different / unusual / difficult spots, and

b)  move the white tee markers back to the back on three holes, and forward on one hole.

Just keep varying the combination of holes which you are altering, and the members will never be bored.  But someone will probably complain about the course rating and slope not being judged from those tees!

[Steve Curry]

Tom,

My sentiments exactly and to add, I hate the reference of "that's a Sunday Pin".  I love when a golfer/s say to me they "have never seen the pin there before".  I always try to mix it up a little.

Steve

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve Curry,

At too many courses, the term "Sunday Pins" relates to couples golf, and as a result, the pins are consistantly in the most benign locations on the greens, resulting in boring golf.

[TEPaul]

They had a very interesting pin positon yesterday at Merion on #11. It appeared to be about three paces from the left side of the green and the front area it was in couldn't be more than about 9 paces across. But it's relatively flat in that area and I view that area as an awesomely challenging and strategic pin position to approach. There were only two matches yesterday but both golfers in one match got too aggressive and hit the ball hole high into the left bunker, one making bogey and the other worse than that. Those players probably just got the yardage from the fairway to the pin and played accordingly. Molinari, on the other hand, did the intelligent thing from the rough and hit an awesome approach right over the pin and past it where there's more greenspace and side to side width. (By the way, that green configuration of narrow front and much wider back is just classic Flynn style).

Once on the green that pin position on #11 is not hard to putt to but to hit an approach shot to it is super challenging and sort of stupid strategy to even try to do.

It was an excellent pin position. Congratulations Tom Meeks or Mike Davis.

[Stuart Hallett]

This year I took the initiative to use what seemed to me interesting pin positions. The greens are very big and subtlely contoured and for some strange reason I also fell into the trap of using the safe options. It seems to be an unwritten rule between members and greens staff, or at least it was. I have received no complaints since experimenting, only the odd smile or passing comment that compliments the new interest. I generally test new positions when greens are not running too quickly. Lots of options are available depending on the level of play and the playing conditions.

I also insist on pushing tee markers back, now, that is worse than any tough pin position. Our men's team struggle in league matches and I have given my theory to the secretary and committee members. We've been too nice for too long, this has lead to some very flattering handicaps. The course is known for being short, so where is the problem? In reality, the Par is still defended very well with a reasonable course set up.

[Craig Sweet]

I cut pins today (Sunday) at my course...I am told to keep them fairly easy to keep speed of play moving along.

However, I usually don't follow that direction very well  

For example, I try to think, within the context of "Sunday Pins", to make 6 easy pins, 6 mid pins and 6 interesting pins. I move then around a lot...side to side especially....we do about 45,000 rounds from amrch thru oct. so the greens can take a beating..finding a good place for a pin that hasn't been hammered with ball marks and old cup plugs is not easy.

A BIGGER problem...tee markers are often moved by non golfers on our maintinence staff...they have no clue...so many times the par 3's all play the same distance....I hear more complaints from our regulars about the par 3's set up than I do about "unfair" pins.

[TEPaul]

Craig:

If you're not the super out there, what are you?

[Craig Sweet]

Tom, I'm just a greenkeeper...we have a super...an excellent guy...there's many supers in the inland empire that started out working for my super...if you work for him, you do every job on the course, and he isn't into babysitting...this guy is good...he's opinionated...and I like that. I think he hired me because I play golf, I have 17 years of horticulture training/irrigation/spraying/ experience and I have run a crew before...

Sunday is a short and easy day. I either cut pins or mow greens...today after cutting pins, the super and I went out and replaced a couple of head and fixed a valve that wasn't shuting down. The guy works with you...right down in the dirt. I think I'm pretty lucky...

[James Bennett]

We have small greens (average about 360 sq metres or 3600 sq feet), with summer stress and winter water-logged wear issues.  Over the years, a number of our greens have been 'donutted', where the bent turf in the middle of the greens ahs become stressed/worn/and replaced by poa.  The edges had generally stayed healthy.

We used to run a 5-hole location rotation on each green, utilising the 4 corners and the centre.  We now run a 4-pin rotation, using the 4 corners only.  Special events have a different set of pins, that may use the middle, but we generally endeavour to keep the wear away from that part of the green (because it gets used every day by people playing across the green to the corners).  

Our 4 par-3's, 4 shorter par 4's, 4 longer par 4's and 4 par-5's have a pin in each corner (the other two holes have a mix as well).  The greenstaff have carte blanche within that corner where they cut the pin - it could be near the edge, or near the middle, or near an adjacent corner.  The middle of the green wear issue in winter and summer seems to be overcome.

[jeffwarne]

Tom,

I always set up our course as you suggest on day two of our member guest.(which features a nine hole scramble and a nine hole alternate shot)
Ladies tees on one or two holes,back tees on a couple others.
same total yardage though
I create at least one driveable par four,a super reachable par five for many in the field, a short pitch par three with a tough pin,as well as a par three most could not reach.

It's a great way to find out who your friends are

It stuns me how many people play the same course from the same tees every day-and freak out when that changes.

[Craig Sweet]

Jeff...I like that concept...one set of tees for the day...some up, some back...that everyone plays from.

I much prefer that to what my course is doing...tricking people into using the forward tees.

[Jay Carstens]

We had Superintenant's Revenge last week.  One of the holes was cut IN the Fringe.    Also played some holes backwards and putted out with a sledgehammer!

[Jason Topp]

One day I played nine holes at a public course in my area late in the evening.  I wound up joining up with three members of the greenkeeping staff.  The holes were in very difficult positions.  When I said something, they replied - "It is Tuesday."  It turns out that on ladies day, several women had complained about where the holes were cut.  As a result, they regularly looked for the nastiest spot they could find on each green and put the hole there.  

I thought it was great and made the course much more interesting than it otherwise would have been.