[Will E]

Dye's ability to use trees as a strategic element in his design is another reason why I'm a card carrying member of his fan club.

Has there ever been another architect that has used trees as well as Dye?

Off the top of my head I think of #5 at The Golf Club, #11 and #16 at Sawgrass, #9 and #11 on the River Course as some of my favorite holes.

[CHrisB]

How about every hole at Harbour Town?  

The 18th at Austin Country Club is another one--there is a lone tree to challenge off the tee if you want to catch a big slope and get another 50 or so yards of roll (which on a 485+ yard par-4 is quite useful!).

[PThomas]

also the one at 16 Blackwofl Run River - unter der linder tree or hole it's called

on the other hand, a great story in his book about how he had a tree cut down there and immediately left because he knew Kohler would be SO mad - which he was...

[Anthony_Nysse]

Here at Long Cove
  #4 approach on the left
  #8 (Par 3)Tee shot on the right side
  #11 approach shot on the right
  #15 approach on the right and left
All Spanish Oak trees-All greens that struggle to have uniform coverage because of them being located so close to greens.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Ken Fry]

Along the line of using trees as part of strategic design, is this dangerous given a tree is a living plant and can die ultimately changing the strategy of a hole?  This is something I've always wondered about.

The most famous example of replacing a lost tree is the 18th at Pebble Beach but I doubt many course would (or could) go to this length.

Ken

[Mike McGuire]

The leaning willow on the 11 th at The River course completly blocks the green from the right fairway. Two people in our group had to go sideways after they thought they had hit playable drives. The effect of the tree is not obvious from the tee.

The players that choose the right fairway on this hole are generaly  the shorter hitter. If the tree is not there the would face a long carry over the sheyboygan river if they want to go for the green. The tree takes away the option for a heroic shot. The longer hitter takes the left fairway and the tree is not an issue.

It would be a much better hole without the tree.

[Anthony_Nysse]

#3 at The Ocean Course...short Par 4...great hole

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove CLub
HHI, SC

[Andy Troeger]

WAE...I agree that Dye is the best at using trees in the design. The only other course I've played that comes close with its use of trees is Tullymore (Engh). The 5th at Mystic Hills in Indiana is another Dye hole with a very strategically placed tree.

Mike, my memory might be wrong, but I believe its the 12th that has the separated fairways. I don't remember the tree you mentioned because I went left, but I'm guessing that's the hole you meant(?). I love the course, but also the trees to me on 13 are a little bit too tall for the length of the shot. How many people can realistically expect to hit a long iron over those trees without having to start the ball over the river?  I think the trees on 9, 11, and 16 work wonderfully and make for great holes.

[mike_malone]

 At Bulle Rock he uses a lone tree on the back nine par five (it is next to a creek). It may affect a layup shot but it provides an aiming point more than anything else.

[ChipOat]

Mike McGuire has identified a heinous example of a Stupid Tree!

It's been awhile since I got the chance to harp on that - not since Tom Paul tried to make a case for Tillinghast's effective use of Stupid Trees.  See also any thread on the 18th hole at Pebble Beach.

As much as I truly admire Pete Dye's work, I have had to deal with his use of "bunkers in the sky" on most every course of his I've ever played.  I wish he'd just let his marvelous work on the ground speak for itself.

Keep the faith, Mike!

[Mike McGuire]

Mr Troeger is correct. I mistakingly described the 12th at the River course.

Other obsevations ......The trees in the middle of #9 are bizarre. The hole is a very short par 4. I saw VJ try to drive the green in an Accenture match play event. You can go direct at the green with the river along the entire right side( fairway short), or play a small strip of fairway in the center with sand on each side....or play a wide fairway way left. Cool options.

Oh... but you cant see any of the last two options from the tee because of a group of tall trees in the center of everything...

There could be stunning views of the river that meanders through the property if some weeds were removed.

In Mr. Dye's defense it could be Mr. Kohler has a problem cutting down trees. I live in the area and it seems to be a regional tree hugger oasis.

I deal alot with a tree service ...and the guy says the people around this area  would leave a potential dangerous limb hanging over their house,  but if you go 20 miles south they say take down the whole tree.

[Tom_Doak]

Mayday:

If you tell Pete that tree is an aiming point he will promptly go out and cut it down!

He did just that on the 14th hole at Crooked Stick before the PGA in 1991.  There was a huge tree (an oak I think) through the fairway which made an easy aiming point, and Pete just went out and cut it down himself.  Some of the members were livid but it was gone and there wasn't much they could do about it.

[Andy Troeger]

Mike,
  I can see the issue with the trees on 12...other members of my group went over there and it didn't appear they had much of a shot. No. 9 I personally like, although I remember what you mean about not being able to see all the options. Since its a resort course where many people likely only play it once this might be an issue...although I would think after multiple plays the options still make it a darn good hole. Trying to take aim right at the green is a fun shot to try to pull off!

[TEPaul]

"It's been awhile since I got the chance to harp on that - not since Tom Paul tried to make a case for Tillinghast's effective use of Stupid Trees.  See also any thread on the 18th hole at Pebble Beach."

Chip:

If you don't get off this tangent and fixation over "stupid trees" you've been on for about 5-6 years on here we're going to export you and your entire family to the linksland and take your US citizenship away from you so you can never come back here and play our courses that can be so strategically interesting due to the intelligent placement of some trees!  

I didn't make Tillinghast's case for him on the subject of trees---he did a pretty good job of making his case himself. So did William Flynn.

It really makes me laugh when I read what some duffus like rednaman says about trees on some Flynn courses. Apparently redanman feels he knows what's better for some of Flynn's courses than William Flynn did.  

[ChipOat]

The evil of Stupid Trees (proper noun, please) is just too important to ever ignore - sort of like maintenance meld, right?

Bunkers in the sky - I hate them.

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