[Tom_Doak]

Yesterday I was in Bend, Oregon and got a brief tour of Pronghorn from their superintendent, John Anderson.

The two Pronghorn courses (Nicklaus and Fazio, the second half complete) are a study in contrasts and they deserve their own separate thread ... both are worth seeing, and raise the design bar for the region.

But the most impressive thing I saw were John Anderson's fairways on the Nicklaus course which are mowed at 1/4 inch ... not just the approaches and collars but the entire fairway.  They looked like giant, perfect greens ... just amazing to me.

I'm not sure I think this is a good thing.  The fairways look so perfect at this height that they look completely unnatural, particularly with a minimum of internal contour that is probably the only practical solution when the fairways are so tight that a ball will not stay on a slope.  And the shaved banks around the greens looked just diabolical at that height ... combined with the small greens, I'm not sure that the average player would be able to stay on some of them with their best approach shot.

But it was the most perfect playing surface I've seen.

[mike_beene]

Tom,I was at Coeur d'Alene last week.Although I am sure the fairways were not that tight,they were almost as short as the greens and looked unreal.I felt terrible taking a divot.The same guilt one experiences chipping on a green or skipping church,which I am doing now.

[RJ_Daley]

Tom D., I hope that is a back handed compliment you are giving to the maintenance-architectural design meld at that course.  And, with heavy emphasis to the back handed slap portion!

What is there to praise there, acres of fgairways maintenance at 1950s greens standards of cutting height?  

It seems to me that there is everything to deride in such an approach to fairway maintenance as you describe it, Tom.  

Raise the design bar?  Why not just hold everyone in the area to that standard.?  What will the new green fees be to maintain FWs at those heights in terms of more inputs to achieve them?  

Tom Doak, the champion of the Augusta (aka Pronghorn) Syndrome.  

I'm not sure I think this is a good thing.

 
Again, I hope you are being the master of the understatement.

[Anthony_Nysse]

When I was played Atlantic Golf Club about 3 years ago, there wer mowing their fairways at .25 with triplexes....amazing how tight that surface is, especially when Robert Raynum is topdressing them a couple times a year....simply awesome, but really, I think a mid to high handicapper will not like how tight the surface is.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[ChipOat]

I posted a thread on this back in June, but National's fairways are also VERY tight and firm.

Given the way Charles MacDonald positioned all those great cross bunkers, that's a good thing.

[Patrick_Mucci]

When I was played Atlantic Golf Club about 3 years ago, there wer mowing their fairways at .25 with triplexes....amazing how tight that surface is, especially when Robert Raynum is topdressing them a couple times a year....simply awesome, but really, I think a mid to high handicapper will not like how tight the surface is.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

Anthony,

I was going to make the same comments.

I think tight fairways magnify the ground game as the ball responds more acutely.

When I tried to test the wind by picking grass from the fairway I couldn't do it with my gloved hand, that's how tight they were.

I like playing that surface, however it requires a willing membership, a large budget, cooperating agronomic conditions and a gifted superintendent.

Tom Doak,

Are these conditions any different then in the summer in the old days before irrigation systems.  This seemed fairly common in 40's, 50's and perhaps early 60's.  

[Lou_Duran]

There you go again, R.J.  What do you care if some people want their courses maintained like Augusta National.   Don't go there.  When in Bend, go visit our friend Don Mahaffey and his reasonably priced, most likely well maintained course in line with your tastes.

Pronghorn is a very high-end club and few "affordable" courses can or will try to emulate it.  The Nicklaus course is slated to become the resort course when the Fazio is completed.  It has been the showplace for prospective lot/home buyers, and I wouldn't doubt that the heavy emphasis on perfect conditions will diminish as the course serves a somewhat different purpose.

Tom Doak is right about the condition of the fairways.  I was there in May after they've got a bit of rain so they weren't as firm as they might normally be.  For me, it wasn't so much that they were tight, but that I was afraid to take a long divot.  It just didn't seem right to damage such pristine turf.

As to the Augusta Syndrome, I think that for most of us it is not a significant issue.  If we want more affordable golf, let's find ways to fast-track the regulatory approval process.  For those who can link SuperNews, the most current issue I received has an article on Carlsbad, CA and its $50+MM course that it's been planning since the 1980s.    

[Joe Hancock]

Some of us may still be under the notion that a shorter cut equates to the ground having more effect. Of course, this is only true when the water is properly managed during the irrigation season.

A couple weeks ago, I played a neighboring course, private, and fairways are cut at 3/8 inch. The ball plugged or backed up on every fairway I hit. Then I return to my course and play, fairways cut at 3/4 inch, and the ball would bounce like crazy. I would never draw comparisons between our courses as to maintenance levels, but I know which fairways I prefer, even with a bit of disease or brown in them.

Joe

[Ian Andrew]

This represents a further seperation of players. The strong player will gains an advantage in length and ability to control the ball, as opposed to a lesser player who will be uncomfortable playing of that height.

While superintendents amaze me with their skill to deliver incredibly short healthy turf, there ability does not nessasarily translate to better golf.

[Tom_Doak]

RJ:  I was complimenting the DESIGN of the two courses when I made my comment about raising the bar at the start of my thread.  The few holes I saw of the Fazio course, in particular, were very creative and I'm sure we will be discussing pictures of them here when it is finished.  The Nicklaus course was also quite interesting, downright confusing in some spots which was very surprising given what I thought I had learned from working with Jack at Sebonack.

As for the maintenance level, you couldn't see it and not be impressed, but as I said, I'm not sure it's a good thing, either for those two courses or for the future of golf in general.  Those fairways put Augusta absolutely to shame!  But, it's bentgrass in a region with very low humidity and little disease pressure, so I guess that would be the place to do it.

[Chris Munoz]

I think now fairways and approaches are being taken care of just how greens are, topdressing, verti-cutting, aerifying practices, extensive spraying, and cutting at low-mowing heights.  I know for a fact that some golf courses are mowing fairways by hand.  That is how the direction of golf course maintenance is going.  I think it all has to do with what the membership wants and whats.  Tom, do you know what kind of bentgrass they seeded the two courses with?


Muni

[Don_Mahaffey]

I'll stay out of the "is it good for golf" debate. But, I'll tell you all this. If you want to play a course that is incredibly fast from tee to green, and where the ground game is not just an option but an absolute must, go play Pronghorn.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I would love to see this and play it. I am not sure about how it will work as a resort course but so what. Thanks for the post Tom.

[Matt_Ward]

Tom D:

What did you think of the Nicklaus Course there compared against other designs you have played from the Golden Bear?

Thanks ...

[Tom_Doak]

Matt:  I didn't have time to play the Nicklaus course, in fact I didn't even see all of the holes.  

What I did see was not much like other Nicklaus courses I've seen.  There were a couple of really unusual holes (the short par 4 12th and the "signature" par-5 15th) which you either have to play VERY conservatively, or else cross your fingers and let her rip (partly blind to boot) and hope you don't wind up in an unplayable rockpile.

I look forward to playing it one of these days.  But I'd rather see his first post-Sebonack design at Dismal River first.

[jeffwarne]

After spending 6 years as the Director of Instruction at Atlantic and 4 years as the Head Professional at a GCA favorite,
I can clearly vouch for the fact that initiation fees and maintenance budgets have a strong inverse relationship to the ability of the membership to handle supertight fairways when chipping and pitching.


Understand this is with all due respect to the incredible superintendants I have had the priveledge of working with.

In my opinion,supertight(I mean from lowered heights) fairways ELIMINATE the chipping and pitching option for most amateurs and force them to putt a disproportionate amount of short shots(or at least they should)-thus taking a lot of the fun and options out of the short game.
This is of course compounded if the turf is kept supershort and soft which is pretty common during such a summer as this year.

I've got a pretty sound wedge game and I know when I practice off these supershort fairways I'll actually fluff the grain up so my confidence(and imagination) isn't sapped

[A_Clay_Man]

simply awesome, but really, I think a mid to high handicapper will not like how tight the surface is.

Tony, every time I hear that a high capper won't like something, I wonder why that person is making the statement. Why do you say that?

[TEPaul]

"But, I'll tell you all this. If you want to play a course that is incredibly fast from tee to green, and where the ground game is not just an option but an absolute must, go play Pronghorn."

Don:

In theory, a golf course that's so firm throughout it only offers the ground game as an option is no better than a golf course that's so soft it only offers the aerial game as an option. The "ideal maintenance meld" is to get both options into a form of equilibrium where many players can't easily decide what the best or worst thing to choose to try to do is. That's when maintenance practices can make a golf coures's architecture a "thinking affair". That's the "meld" part where maintenance practices make architecture as ideal as it can be---eg super multi-optional in a very functional way.

[John Kirk]

I assumed new clubs like Pronghorn feel pressure to sell memberships, and therefore begin featuring the perfect playing characteristics of homogenous turf as soon as possible.  I wonder if that impacts the long term health of the bent.

It's pretty dry over there, but I'd guess that poa annua will still be the dominant grass on the course within 20 years, no matter what they do.  I don't go over there often, so I don't know how the ten year old bent courses in Bend, Broken Top and Crosswater, look these days.

Witch Hollow, a 13 year old bent course, is about 20-25% poa now.  We have always mowed the fairways very tight, probably 3/8 of an inch.

[Joel_Stewart]

I wonder if they seeded or sodded the course?   I played a new Nicklaus course recently (Old Greenwood - Lake Tahoe)and they sodded the entire course and imported the bright white sand from Idaho.  Whats a an extra million when you are selling homes at a few million each!

[Jerry Kluger]

Jeff: If a course is designed with tight fairways in mind then it should allow approaches that would force the golfer to consider a club other than a wedge with a lot of loft.  So I would think that the members would learn how to bump an 8 or 6 iron into a green.   If all the greens are pushed up with trouble all around then perhaps tight fairways should not be the way the course should play.  I would envision Pinehurst #2 with tight fairways being nearly impossible for all but the very best.

[Tom_Doak]

Joel:  Pronghorn was grown in pretty much all from seed.  They are seeding the Fazio course now so I saw their protocol first-hand; John Anderson is very old-school, just like I learned from Tom Mead eighteen years ago.

John K:  It's much more dry in Bend than in Portland.  They may get Poa annua over time, but there is zero per cent right now.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Adam,
  Who said anything about me being a high handicapper? Most higher handicap players like more turf so that there ball will sit up, so there able to hit their woods and long irons easier.
  MUNI-I know that Hudson National in New York walk mows their fairways, Winged Foot and Congresional did for the 1997 PGA and US OPEN.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Don_Mahaffey]

TE,
I think Pronghorn is pretty well in balance, but there are some shots where the player is going to have to use the ground option to get close to the flag. The course is firm, the greens only dent and the ball will move after hitting the ground. No mud on your ball here and the player needs to factor in how far his ball will go after it hits the ground. But, it is a Nicklaus course and there are greens that will need to be approached through the air. You just better not fly it to the flag unless your grooves are clean!

[A_Clay_Man]

Anthony,
I've never seen a ball sit-up better than on closely mown well maintained turf.
 BTW, I'm the mid-to High capper. Not you.

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