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cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
What is a proper maintenance budget for a south Fl
« on: December 22, 2002, 02:27:06 PM »
What should you figure to spend on a maintenance budget for a private course in Southern Florida?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What is a proper maintenance budget for a sout
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2002, 02:53:02 PM »
Quassi,

Could you be a little more non-specific ?   ;D

We need facts, particulars, details.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is a proper maintenance budget for a sout
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2002, 07:38:49 PM »
Sorry, more specific. For example, Old Marsh is always in wonderful condition. So is Jupiter Hills. Let's use those as the model I'm looking for.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

A_Clay_Man

Re: What is a proper maintenance budget for a sout
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2002, 08:05:42 AM »
I remeber asking the national average a few yrs back and I don't recall if it was 600k but i'd suspect closer to 750.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is a proper maintenance budget for a sout
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2002, 08:31:19 AM »
That sounds low. For private clubs in the ATL area they are typically north of $1MM.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

bill_k

Re: What is a proper maintenance budget for a sout
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2002, 11:35:29 AM »
I am familiar with several courses in the Palm Beach area that have maintenance budgets approaching 1.5. This figure for many of them includes landscaping-which is taken quite seriously and ups the ante considerably.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tommy 65

Re: What is a proper maintenance budget for a sout
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2002, 01:26:43 PM »
Yeah, it's expensive to edge the cart paths every week.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What is a proper maintenance budget for a sout
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2002, 02:43:19 PM »
Bill K,

I would think that the number you suggested is pretty close, especially at Old Marsh, and to a lesser extent at Jupiter Hills, which is a 36 hole layout.

Budgets depend upon what is included in them.
For example, health insurance benefits, clubhouse landscaping, tennis court maintainance, etc.,etc..
How do they book leases, operating or capital ?
Some clubs blur the two.
Some clubs have hidden interdepartmental charges that don't show up on the Greens department budgets.

It is very difficult to compare golf course budgets because one can rarely find two that are identical in form and operation.

At several clubs that I'm familiar with, comparisons were attempted with numerous clubs, but, the dis-similarities in the budget formats were so great that no accurate comparison could be made.

Tommy 65,

Unlike Northern courses, courses in South Florida have to be maintained year round, with no respite, no time to fix equipment, retool, etc., etc..  It is a 365 day a year task, and super flat land combined with hurricanes, tropical storms, torrential rains and drouts don't make it any easier.

What makes it even more difficult is that just when the grass goes dormant, the play of the courses reach their peaks, and most of them are subject to heavy cart traffic.

It's a little more involved than edging cart paths.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is a proper maintenance budget for a sout
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2002, 02:47:16 PM »
quassi,
The NGF averaged the maintenance costs in NE at around $2,200 per acre of course, I don't know what Fla's are.  

A Pro I know was looking at a course in Ga. and one interesting bit of info was how big a spread in budgets existed.
U of Ga. did a study showing the spreads :

3.8% - $1mil. or more. (who's in this category?  ;D  )

7.6% - $500k to 1 mil.

21.4% - $250k to 500k

37.4% - $100k to 250k

17.6%- -$50k to 100k

12.2%- $5ok or less.



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is a proper maintenance budget for a sout
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2002, 02:49:49 PM »
Our budget at Pensacola CC is $600K including $6500/month for new lease with Toro for a lot of operating equipment.  Capital investments are additional.  This is similar to south FL, we maintain all year.  Most rough areas over 20 yds from first cut become sandy, pine straw strewn waste areas similar to Pinehurst area.  Greens are range from medium size (6,000 SF) to small (4,000) to one that is miniscule (2800 SF on a 540 yd par 5).   Larger greens = more labor and seed, fertilzier etc = higher budget.

Just edged our cart paths and now have a whole lot more asphalt!   ???
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:12 PM by -1 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What is a proper maintenance budget for a sout
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2002, 06:37:00 PM »
Quassi,

Being somewhat familiar with Old Marsh and Jupiter Hills,
and some nearby clubs that are similar, Bill K's estimate is reasonably accurate.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is a proper maintenance budget for a sout
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2002, 07:33:40 PM »
Pat:

The $1.5 million maintenance budget, does that include any monies for annual equipment purchases, or is that just for maintenance. If it includes equipment, could you ballpark that # please.

Quassi
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What is a proper maintenance budget for a sout
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2002, 08:03:54 PM »
Quassi,

That's a difficult question because it depends on the current inventory of equipment, its shelf life, and the needs of the golf course.

Whenever I was appointed to a green committee or appointed green chairman the first thing I did was to take inventory of the equipment, its shelf life, its replacement cost in today's dollars, and the need for additional equipment, and the cost to acquire it in today's dollars.  Then I made a time-line acquisition schedule and presented it as the capital budget.

You also have to weigh Leasing versus Purchasing.

So,

What equipment does the club need ?
What is its cost in today's dollars
What equipment does the club already have ?
What is its shelf life ?
What is its replacement cost in today's dollars
Over what time period can the club afford the capital required?

Work with your superintendent to provide him with the equipment he will need today and tomorrow to maintain your course to the degree he feels is necessary, in the context of membership expectations and funding.

I sense that you feel your club is spending too much money on maintainance and capital expenditures, but I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time, nor will it be the last.

Good Luck.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is a proper maintenance budget for a sout
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2002, 02:22:20 AM »
Pat:

This is for a brand new club, so we're working with a blank slate. I'm trying to determine what the annual budget should be for maintenance, and what the annual budget should be for capital replacement of equipment.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is a proper maintenance budget for a sout
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2002, 02:22:30 AM »
Pat:

This is for a brand new club, so we're working with a blank slate. I'm trying to determine what the annual budget should be for maintenance, and what the annual budget should be for capital replacement of equipment.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What is a proper maintenance budget for a sout
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2002, 09:16:16 AM »
Quassi,

Have you hired a superintendent, and is he from south Florida.

What's the acreage under maintainance ?

I would speak with the Supers at 5 or more clubs that you wish to emulate.  You mentioned Old Marsh, so I would choose them, and other clubs that may be similar to your club.

I would create three levels of equipment purchases.

Ideal
Acceptable
Minimum

I would look toward capital funding on a 5-7 year program.

I would undertake the same process with respect to your maintainance budget.  Balancing member satisfaction with member funding is not always an easy task, epecially when the weather doesn't co-operate.

I'm very familiar with two clubs in the Boca Raton area that are well to very well maintained.  If you want to discuss this further, email me and I'll try to help you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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