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Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Northern Mich Financial Woes
« on: June 23, 2005, 06:27:37 AM »
Just returned from a group trip to the Gaylord/TC area.  I had no idea what financial straits many of those courses are in.  You can join Kingsley Club for next to nothing.  A wonderful Weiskopt effort - Forest Dunes, has no hope of recovering their investment.  It's been passed from owner to owner now landing at the feet of the Carpenter's Union.  Seems to be just the tip of the iceberg.  Sad too as there are a number of quality layouts in NMich.

JC
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Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Northern Mich Financial Woes
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2005, 07:55:50 AM »
Jonathan,

There are are a number of great courses in Northern Michigan, that's the big problem.  Too many of them for such a short season and not a huge increase in summer traffic.

Ken
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Mitch Hantman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Northern Mich Financial Woes
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2005, 08:01:01 AM »
What is the cost to join Kingsley Club?
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Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Northern Mich Financial Woes
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2005, 08:15:35 AM »
 8) Jonathan,

We toured Forest Dunes last summer and they were finishing the grand clubhouse... I questioned the economic model for teh Roscommon area.. easpecially with out any real close lake front or river property.. that's the main ticket up there...

Don't dismiss the strength of Union's in Mich!  

I'd have to say the prices have been elevated in NMich for 10+ years,.. too many Chicagoans visiting, driving up prices! 8)
« Last Edit: June 23, 2005, 08:15:59 AM by Steve Lang »
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Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Northern Mich Financial Woes
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2005, 08:38:56 PM »
As I've gotten quite a few requests to qualtify my "next to nothing" comment and I think the club would not care that I posted this, Kingsley will offer you a membership for $15k with dues set at $2500/year.  Forest Dunes, south of Gaylord and almost as good, will give you a membership for essentially the monthly dues.

JC
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Will E

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Northern Mich Financial Woes
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2005, 09:47:42 PM »
All you can play at Black Forest Monday through Thursday for around $50 might be the best value for quality golf I know of.
Amazing to me that this course isn't more appreciated.
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Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Northern Mich Financial Woes
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2005, 09:56:58 PM »
Shooter,
I agree....Black Forest is a very good deal and I enjoy the course.  Same for Belvedere and Heather.
Mike
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Northern Mich Financial Woes
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2005, 11:37:29 PM »
>Don't dismiss the strength of Union's in Mich!

I believe that Black Lake is also owned by a union.

They were rated about 4th in the state by GD in 2003.

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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

John_McMillan

Re:Northern Mich Financial Woes
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2005, 12:32:25 AM »
Quote from: Jonathan on June 23, 2005, 08:38:56 PM
Kingsley will offer you a membership for $15k with dues set at $2500/year.

I know that the Kingsley Club has different levels of membership.  Are you quoting the economics of their "national" level - which applies to those who don't live near the club?  Is there a limit on the number of rounds a "national" member can play per year?  
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Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Northern Mich Financial Woes
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2005, 05:38:36 AM »
John - you'd have to contact them for details but honestly, how many local members could they have??

We played Black Forest with Tom and owner Mike Bider.  Until Tom toughens BF up it is way to easy!  ;)

JC
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S. Huffstutler

Re:Northern Mich Financial Woes
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2005, 07:26:45 AM »
As a displaced Michigander, I wonder just how bad the golf economy is? I still have a home in Frankfort and I heard that my old haunt, The Frankfort Golf Club ( fairways cross the road 6 times) was sold. Any truth to that?

Steve
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Brian_Sleeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Northern Mich Financial Woes
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2005, 12:00:42 PM »
If $15k and $2500 is low, I won't even mention ours....
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Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Northern Mich Financial Woes
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2005, 12:17:00 PM »
Quote from: Jonathan on June 24, 2005, 05:38:36 AM
John - you'd have to contact them for details but honestly, how many local members could they have??

We played Black Forest with Tom and owner Mike Bider.  Until Tom toughens BF up it is way to easy!  ;)

JC

Way too easy? ;D... yeh, & I don't snore ::) :o... are they ever going to finish the driving range that they cleared but never finished?
« Last Edit: June 24, 2005, 12:17:31 PM by Steve Lang »
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Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

SB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Northern Mich Financial Woes
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2005, 02:00:49 PM »
I'm not sure the golf market in northern Michigan was ever a very good one.  It's a 3 month season when the vacationers are there and there's a lot of good golf to be had.  Many new courses were built to support housing developments or resorts and never could stand on their own.  Some beautiful courses, though....
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Brian Cenci

Re:Northern Mich Financial Woes
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2005, 02:41:10 PM »
I used to live in Northern Michigan (Lake Ann).  It is of no suprise to me about the financial difficulties.  This should be a little word or warning for "True North" which is a Jim Engh course trying to go private after this year in Harbor Springs.  Northern Michigan has too many good public courses:  Arcadia Bluffs, Black Lake, Black Forest, Tullymore, Red Hawk, The Gailes, Otsego Club, High Pointe, Bay Harbor, The Heather...list goes on and on.  So it is tough for the area to support a lot of expensive private courses.  Kinglsey Club is a great course that will get its membership base eventually.   I am looking at joining there right now.

Forest Dunes is a nice track as well....right near I-75 but too close to Gaylord to try and be private.

Brian...you are right about Marquette.  I joined your club earlier this year through the national membership program and I still don't know how that is profitable for the club.  I play 2-3 rounds a year and I've made the money back.  
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