[Gregg Vincent]

This week major championship golf returns to Cherry Hills and I think it could provide interesting insight to how technology has changed the game and how those changes have affected some classic "championship" golf courses.

Cherry Hills, a William Flynn design, has hosted numerous Major Championships over the years and produced some memorable champions -- Palmer, Nicklaus, Sigel, Mickelson included.

Technology and altitude have taken there toll on Cherry Hills and like some other great courses, it has become "too short" to host a mens major championship.

Since the technology boom hit Cherry Hills has hosted a Mid Amatuer, a Senior US Open and now this week a Womens Open. Maybe a Junior championship is next.

I love Cherry Hills and think it will provide an excellent test this week. It was interesting to see Annika play Merion last week, another Flynn influenced design also frequently mentioned as being left behind by technolgy.

Gregg

[Doug Wright]

Gregg,

I'm working at the tournament a couple of days and I'll report in. From what I've heard the rough is nasty US Open stuff thanks to our wet spring so a straight driver will be rewarded. Can you say "Annika Sorenstam"?

I think Cherry Hills will play fairly for the women. At 6,749 yards (par 71),  it's the longest US Women's Open course but of course at mile high altitude will play a lot shorter. Holes to watch: 1 (to see if Michelle Wie can drive it Palmer-like--I heard she nearly made it into the wind last week); 5 (a terrific Flynn green on this par 5 with a fearsome-looking front bunker); 9 (a difficult and long uphill par 4); 10 (a great downhill par 4 with a sloping green that can be brutal when speedy); 13 (a deceptively difficult short par 4 with a fronting stream--hit it in the fairway or fugeddabouddit); 14 (likely, with 18, the hardest hole on the course and one of my favourites anywhere--simply a terrific second shot into a  great greensite); and of course the moat hole par 5 17th and the uphill 459 yard 18th, which will be a long and very difficult par 4 for the ladies. Here is a link to the hole descriptions:

http://www.uswomensopen.com/course/holebyhole.html

Anything over nearly any green at Cherry Hills will be death because most of them slope back to front. The winner will keep the ball consistently below the hole.

[wsmorrison]

Doug,

Any recent architectural or tree management changes to the course for the Open?  I know the club was going to host next year's National Flynn Invitational but they had to postpone because of work being done next year but I was curious to know of any changes...hopefully back to Flynn if possible.  Mark Fine probably knows a lot about this.

Have fun at the tournament.  I hope the weather provides excellent turf conditions for the best test of golf.  I look forward to your comments post-tournament.

Want to hazzard a winning score guess?

[Patrick_Mucci]

I'd be interested to hear Mark Fine's take on the golf course and the impact of today's ball and equipment on the architecture.

[Tom_Doak]

Although Cherry Hills is technically the longest course ever for a US Women's Open, it should play quite a bit SHORTER than the past few Open courses because of the altitude adjustment, which is substantial.

The effects of adjusting to the altitude are more than most people realize.  In today's game, knowing the exact distance you hit your approach shots is an important skill set, and it is knocked completely haywire at 5,000 feet.  A lot of good players I've talked to have trouble with the adjustment and have a hard time playing well in Colorado for that reason.

[Matt_Ward]

Somone has to clue me in how Cherry Hills still gets rated as #21 by Digest. Frankly, from the times I have played the course (3 times since '78) and now with all the new courses that have entered the scene in The Centennial State I don't see how the course could even make the top ten let alone be rated as high as it is today.

Too much of the fanfare is tied to the '60 event -- people should also remember the sleep-a-thon event that came with the '78 Open.

Let me be a bit fair in also suggesting that Digest having listed Redlands Mesa as #4 in the state is also a major league stretch. Again, you have a fine course but the quality of what exists NOW has changed the landscape considerably.

Redanman and Tom Doak are quite correct on the altitude aspect. Doug did mention to me during my recent visit to Denver and the surrounding area, and on this thread, the density of the rough now given the wet spring the greater Denver area has had. Clearly, the course will put a major premium on driving the ball -- Annika must be smiling big time!

In so many ways Cherry Hills and my state course of Baltusrol are really beginning to see the end of their existence as prime time players in the 21st century major championship sweepstakes. A win by Annike may assist Cherry Hills as the Palmer win did, however, the course is really on borrowed time IMHO.

The best quote I ever read about Cherry Hills came from Tom Doak's statement in Confidential Guide -- put the course in the greater Phillie area and it would be lost among the real heavyweights that exist there. Nuff said.

[Gregg Vincent]

Matt,

History
Shotmaking
Conditioning
Setting

Thats how CHCC stays on the list. It's a classic golf course that has had very little alteration over the years. It's all wrapped up in a lot of memorable golf history and nice setting. Those components make it special and they are tough to duplicate.

Agree it's in its waning years of big time events but it should provide a great test to its members for many more years.

Gregg

[wsmorrison]

Gregg,

Compared to the way it was originally built the course is vastly different.  The routing may be much the same but not the intra-hole designs.  Lots of people have left their marks for good (maybe) and for bad (for sure!).  Changes abound at Cherry Hills, and not just the trees.

[T_MacWood]

Was Cherry Hills Flynn's first breakthrough design?

[Doug Braunsdorf]

...

[wsmorrison]

Tom MacWood,

Good question.  I would say that Flynn's breakthrough work was at Merion.  The work he did there and the generous nature of Hugh Wilson and the respect he had from Piper and Oakley surely helped him immensely.

His first great solo effort was likely Lancaster Country Club.

[George Pazin]

Does anyone know what CH played at in 1960? I can't remember what I read.

Wind is less influential at altitude?

How can you guys up in the mountains stand it?

 

With Merion largely attributed to Wilson, I'd have thought Shinnecock was Flynn's real breakthrough.

[Doug Wright]

Greetings. I spent yesterday at Cherry Hills working the par 3 8th during the practice round; back there tomorrow for round 2. A few observations:

--The course is playing a little softer than the USGA would like due to the recent regular rains we have had. The 8th green was very receptive to 210 yard fairway woods, and the fairways weren't running too much either. With some brief rain today and more expected tomorrow it might be what they get for the tourney.

--I thought the USGA was quite generous with the fairway cuts, wider than the men's US Open by a lot.

--The 18th hole is very tough for these ladies, 465 and very uphill. Clearly the hardest hole on the course and a par 4.5 or more.

--It's clearly the Annika and Michelle show out here. Throngs of people following them, while other fine players were ignored.

--The beautiful Natalie Gulbis has more personality than all of the throngs of stone-faced, automaton Asian golfers who are here (it seems like they comprise half the field) combined. Don't get me wrong--I very much appreciate their golf games, but their textbook swings are as robotic as their demeanors. And this is in a practice round mind you...  

--After witnessing a fair sampling of players hitting on 8 including Annika, the thing I noticed about Annika was the very different sound of her club on the ball. It's almost NO sound, which convinced me that she makes perfect contact. Sort of like guys like Nicklaus and Woods when they are on.
 
--I also met a couple of LPGA pros at a reception the night before. They each said the altitude is about a 10 yard (1 club) difference for them. One of them also said the longest club she could use to extricate herself from fairway rough was 8 iron. The rough is quite deep, particularly around the greens, and the ladies spent a lot of practice time working from various greenside lies in the rough.

--17 year old Morgan Pressel--who played in the Womens Open at 13 and apparently started strong today before fading to level par (still a good score)--looks like she has some talent and could rise quickly when she joins the LPGA.

--One other thing--these gals are good!  

[wsmorrison]

"With Merion largely attributed to Wilson, I'd have thought Shinnecock was Flynn's real breakthrough."

George,

Merion rightly is largely attributed to Wilson although at some point it was Wilson/Flynn and a later point it was Flynn.  Tom MacWood asked if Cherry Hills was Flynn's FIRST breakthrough design.  While Shinnecock Hills is undeniably his crowning achievement, his first great solo work is Lancaster CC (1920) while Cherry Hills (1923) and Shinnecock Hills (1929-1931) were later greats.  

In my opinion, and I'd certainly welcome Doug's thoughts, if the Flynn plans for Denver CC were entirely implemented it would've been such a strong design that, in my mind, it would clearly have overshadowed Cherry Hills.

Dare I say it?  Yes, I do.  I concur with Tom Doak.  If Cherry Hills were transplanted to the Philadelphia area, it would not have the national reputation that it does today.

Reader beware:  I've never been to Cherry Hills or Denver CC.  So my opinion is soley based upon study of the drawings, photographs and archival materials.

[George Pazin]

I didn't remember Shinnecock came so late, I thought it was earlier.

For anyone who's interested, Julian Graubert wrote a highly entertaining book about the 1960 US Open at Cherry Hills entitled Golf's Greatest Championship: the 1960 US Open.

[wsmorrison]

George,

The Davis and Dunn versions were late 19th Century.  The Macdonald/Raynor version preceding Flynn was 1916.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The lack of humidity can make the golf course play even shorter.

Watch the ball ROLL.

[Matt_Ward]

Given the undeniable wisdom / insight from Redanman -- I ask again how does Cherry Hills hold down the 21st position among Digest's top 100 courses?

Talk about a course where the game -- starting right in its own backyard state of Colorado -- has indeed passed it by.

[Tom_Doak]

Matt:

I haven't seen nearly as many courses in Colorado as you have, of course, but perhaps my statement about Cherry Hills was too strong, in that I have not seen any other courses in Colorado * which would make Philadelphia's top five, either.

(* But I am confident that I am working on one right now.)

[Doug Braunsdorf]

...

[Mark_Fine]

I've been out at the Open all week.  The course is playing very tough as I expected it would.  I was with Mike Burke on Tuesday and the first thing Tim Moraghan told him was, "lock up the rollers Mike, your done with them".  They didn't want the women all shooting 85.  The only thing that is saving the ladies right now is the softness of the greens and fairways.  The afternoon thunderstorms will help keep them softer than all those setting up the course would like.  The rough has been cut to 3".  Mike did his last cut of the rough (inside the ropes) on Wednesday night and that will be it for the rest of the championship.  The greens are rolling at 11 and 1/2 which is plenty fast.  I have a side bet with Clayton Cole that +2 will win the championship.  He is thinking -2.  If Mike had his way, it would be a lot higher.  We'll see how much leeway the USGA gives him.  They don't want to beat up the women too badly.

There have been quite a few trees taken out, some new tees added and fairway lines modified.  The trees removed on #11 in front of and beyond the left fairway bunker are making a difference in how that hole is played as the longer hitting ladies are tempted to carry the bunker with the hope of getting home in two.  We wanted the fairway wider beyond the bunker and only got about half of what we suggested.

Tim Moraghan and I also wanted a tee that would make #17 play about 30 yards shorter.  We wanted more of the ladies having to think about going for it in two.  At 530 or so, it is all but out of reach for most.  That hole will be tremendous once restored as right now it is very one dimensional.

Bunker restoration work did not start prior to the championship because of the major renovation work on the clubhouse.  There was too much going on at the club to have their golf course torn up as well before the open.  It's unfortunate as there are soooo many great golf holes at Cherry Hills that have changed over the years.  

Personally, I've never had Cherry Hills as one of my top Flynn designs because of how it has evolved.  Fortunately the bones of the golf course are still there.  It just needs it's old shin regrafted back on!  It was once an awesome golf course and will be once again.  Had the changes been made, the ladies would not only have been physically exhausted after their rounds, they would have been mentally exhausted as well.  

It's still an excellent golf course but will only get better.  

All in good time!
Mark

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Mark-

  I recall you brought a plan of Cherry Hills to Panorama, at the dinner this past winter.  
  Have many architects had their hands on Cherry Hills?  From the spirit of your post, I will hazard a guess 'yes', but where have most of the changes to the original Flynn design occurred?  

  I've been watching the telecast the past few days for the brief glimpses of architecture.  

[Mark_Fine]

Doug,
I remember I did bring the master plan rendering.  Many architects have had there hands on Cherry Hills over the years.  The list is a long one.  Fortunately 16 of the original Flynn greens are still intact though the surrounds have been altered on most of them.  Holes #3 and #13 including the greens, were redesigned in the early 60's by Press Maxwell.  What he was thinking when he did this I do not know?  Most of the change over the years, however, has been in the bunkering and with the planting and growth of trees.  Many bunkers were added and many others were removed.  The design intent of many of the holes was changed as a result.  Coupled with the extensive tree planting, the course has become very one dimensional.  You'll note some of the comments from the ladies such as Michelle Wie, "This is not the widest course we play".  That is a bit of an understatement as the course plays very narrow.  The USGA really didn't have to alter the fairway widths for the Open.  

With all the changes over the years, play is now funnelled to the center.  Flynn originally designed play to be focused more along the edges, typical of many classic courses.  The Cherry Hills design was about angles, deception and temptation.  It was really one of Flynn's best.  It not only looked good on paper (as Wayne suggests Denver CC might have), it looked great on the ground.  Denver CC's property is not quite in the same league as CHCC's which is the big difference in the designs even if the original Flynn plan at that club was implemented.    

Walking around the course with some of the committee members this week, we kept saying, just think if the green surrounds were restored on #2 and if that center fairway bunker was put back in on #5, ....and if the trees were taken down on the island green and hell's half acre restored,...  What a golf course!  Every hole will eventually be tweeked back to the original Flynn design and intent.  

It will once again deserve that ranking Matt speaks about and not just rest on all it's history.

Mark

[wsmorrison]

Mark,

A nice report, thanks.  I'm glad the powers that be are moving in the direction of restoring Flynn's design and construction of Cherry Hills.  It will deserve most of its acclaim.  Is it one of Flynn's best?  There are some all-world holes there.  I don't know since I've never been there, but I don't think so at this point.  I'll have to go out and see for myself while ignoring the bastardizations made over the years.  It sure will be interesting to look at the course when all the work is completed.  I understand a bit more will be done next year.

It is interesting that Cherry Hills is a course where Flynn directed the planting of strategic trees at the turn of holes and to enhance perceptions of angles on Cherry Hills.  Not surprising that over the years the club, like so many, went way overboard in continual plantings.

That's a good point you make about the quality of land at Denver CC and Cherry Hills.  That is surely the reason why Flynn designed up the hazards to a greater extent at DCC.  Too bad the club determined that the design was too difficult and they ended up toning it down so much in the little implementation they did do.

[T_MacWood]

Wayne
Which course received more national publicity and exposure for Flynn--Lancaster or Cherry Hills?

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