Annika to play Pine Valley & Merion

[Ted Kramer]

And I'll bet the $100 on myself . . .
I might not have half a chance against the players on here, but that would end up being the best $100 ever lost by this compulsive gambler  

-Ted

[JESII]

A couple of good points Tom, but I would seriously challenge lending any importance to her scores today and tomorrow. You know how tournament golf is, it is just not that easy to be interested in playing hard the two days immediately following one of her most important weeks of the year. There is also the issue of familiarity with the course, so don't let these scorse (whether good or bad) carry too much weight in your comparisons to anyone in the Crump.

Now, to actually answer your questions, I think the course she played today (assuming 6500 yds) would be 5-8 shots easier than it will be for the medal play portion of this years Crump. The firmness of the greens is, by a very wide margin, the most significant difference. I have no first hand knowledge of how far Annika hits the ball, but all the reports say she hits is far enough, 265 on 16 is the longest line and would not be necessary and 250 on 18 is slightly downhill and also not a problem, so now the question is can Trip keep up with her accuracy. I'll give you one guess on that one.

Based on the reports I've heard and the little bit I saw at Winged Foot last year, Ryan Moore would have an edge on her, purely due to his short game. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that he makes every putt he has to, and I'm betting he would feel like he has to make every putt against Annika, I know I would.

[JESII]

And I'll bet the $100 on myself . . .
I might not have half a chance against the players on here, but that would end up being the best $100 ever lost by this compulsive gambler  

-Ted

I wish I could help Ted, but I was talking imaginary golf.

[Mike_Trenham]

Belay that! Hold on, hole on, there some word filtering in in my other ear. What did you say? She played from the middle set of tees not the back tees or the new tip tee boxes? OK You said you think she may've played from the new tip tee on #18 just for the hell of it? OK

I guess that would make it about 6400 or 6500.

Having played there on Sunday a number of the middle tees were on the old back tees.  This was the case on at least #3, #7, #9, #14 and #15.  I was wondering if this was normal and my host did not think so.  Assuming the markers were not moved this morning what would that do to the total?

Greens were not overly fast.

[TEPaul]

I'm going to take off for a few days but when I get back I'll find out all about Annika's round there. Turns out a couple of the guys she played with down there are pretty good friends. They may even be the ones she plays with tomorrow at Merion as they both belong there too, I think. I'm not sure who the fourth was but someone said it may've been Annika's boyfriend or husband. Is Annika married? This is not good news because it could mean she may not room with me during the Crump Cup once I get a good look at her. Actually one of the sources of info down there did say, in his opinion, Annika is a whole lot more attractive looking in person than she appears on TV.

[Dan Herrmann]

Tom, Annika is recently divorced.  I hear she's looking for a slightly older, well traveled, opinionated gentleman that appreciates architecture.  So - where's the honeymoon?

[wsmorrison]

Bill V,

I'm going over to check her out today. What stripes hide a big belly best, vertical or horizontal?

Tom will be catching a smoke and miss her for sure...then I'll make my move.  Besides, she likes firm not fast, so Tom's maintenance meld won't help him much there  

[ChipRoyce]

I take it she has played her rounds by now. Anyone call their connections and find out what she shot?

[George Pazin]

The flip side of the "not trying hard" argument is that I'd think it's easier to relax with no pressure. For every pro who shot 80 when he was just screwing around, there's probably 2 who shot 65.

Didn't someone recently post about Moore playing PV? Or maybe it was in one of the magazines?

Regardless, Jim's right about the imaginary golf thing - we're all just throwing around hypotheticals that really have little or no bearing on reality.

Just to clarify my other post, when I say Annika would lose regardless of the course to any Tour pro, I don't mean anywhere close to every time. Anyone who follows golf at all understands that it is one of the most difficult sports to consistently perform at a top level - which just makes Annika's and Tiger's stellar years that much more unbelievable.

I still have a hard time understanding how anyone would bet on Annika over 72 holes against the best amateurs - and I'm talking US Am type winners here. In recent years we've seen Kuchar and Moore finish high enough to requalify for the following Masters. I think Barnes may have done it as well, or was at least close. Sergio played over the weekend after he qualified by winning the British Am (as an aside, do the call the British Amateur "The Amateur Championship"?). Sure, Annika is consistent enough that she'd win occasionally, but over the long haul, I'd put my money on the US Am winner.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Shivas says:

If a top amateur is clicking on all cylinders, he will beat Annika.

I'm glad to see that someone is upholding Chicago's moniker of "The Windy City".
This quote would be more believeable if 'will' was replaced by 'might' or 'has a chance to' or 'could possibly'.

[John Foley]

Nothing against these guys, but what USGA AM or Mid-Am winner in the last 10 years has made any noise on Tour?

Kutchar? Ryan Moore's got the game, but bring it to the next level.

I'm sure thier mental make up is solid, but Anika's mental make up is out of this world. The other thing is, some of these long hitters play there second shots from some pretty tough positions. When is the last time we saw Anika try and crank one and miss a fairway wide?

My $$'s on her all day. Sure she loose a few, but not many.

[johnk]

Isn't one of the legends of PV that members would bet pros that they wouldn't break 80 (or is it 70) there the first time?

I think on any course under 7000, yardage isn't going to be a serious problem for Annika.  If the course puts a premium on driving accuracy, she has a big advantage over the majority of men - amateur or PGA pro.

However, once the yardage goes into the 7300yd range, and once accurate driving isn't demanded, I think the men start to have an advantage.

Finally, I think it's humorous to read these posts that would encourage Annika to play the backs so we could compare to the best men pros of the day...  Anyone consider that she's out there to simply enjoy the course, and that she doesn't have the need to constantly prove or test herself against some imagined gender standard?

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Just catching up on this post, and I have to agree with JAMIE.
As someone who also plays in The Crump Cup, Annika would beat me day in day out like a red headed step child..she is a much better player than me...that is just the way it is....against Ryan Moore...my money would be on Ryan ten times out of twelve.

[rgkeller]

All those who wish to see Ms. Sorenstam compared against the male professionals should join a campaign to convince Hootie to invite her to the Masters in 2006.

[Kyle Harris]

Bill V,

I'm going over to check her out today. What stripes hide a big belly best, vertical or horizontal?

Tom will be catching a smoke and miss her for sure...then I'll make my move.  Besides, she likes firm not fast, so Tom's maintenance meld won't help him much there  

Wayne,

Don't take your youngest... he may steal your mojo...  

[George Pazin]

Nothing against these guys, but what USGA AM or Mid-Am winner in the last 10 years has made any noise on Tour?

All this does is show the depth of talent on the big boy tour.

On a one off match, I'd be tempted to bet on Annika, because the thought of losing to a woman would put the fear of God into many a man. But over a number of matches, my money would be on the very best Ams more often than not.

[JESII]

Sounds like a 72 today at Merion from the back tee position (not the new back tee pads). Not sure what this means for total yardage (maybe 6650-6700?) but that is the number I just heard.

Maybe we'll get a little better details from some later on.

[Jim_Coleman]

      Anika shot 70 yesterday at P.V. from 6,600 yds.  Very, very impressive.

[Willie_Dow]

JES11
The word I got was a 74, including a 7 on 12 and an OB 6 on 15.  Not sure if the 7 was on 12 however.

You're right that she wasn't on the tips, but on 18's regular back tee she was on the green with a 5 iron, which may have spun back off the green.

All this is by word of mouth, because no one followed the foursome which included our pro, Scott Nye, and Annika's coach.  She was out beyond Scott by 30-40 yards on her drives.  What biceps!!!!!!!!!!
Willie

[Jim_Kennedy]

Dave,
Because there are few absolutes when it comes to playing this game, that's why.

Annika hits it out there like Pavin, Funk, Roberts, Haas, Parry, etc.. She has something like 20+ rounds in the 60s this season. She faired well at the Colonial. The list of superlatives relating to her game is impressive, as we all know.
You say that Annika can't shoot 64 from 7,000 yds. more than a few times a year. How much of a chance is there that she'd pull that round out in the hypothetical match-up between Am and Pro?

Maybe one day she'll have won everything she wanted to win on the LPGA Tour and decide to try out the men's side. My opinion, she would stay in the top 150. Sooner or later an AK or MW is going to make it out there.    

[Dan Herrmann]

I'm just glad that she got a chance to play such great courses.  I wish the media would report that a lady played a the men's only PV.  Kinda shows that the gentlemen at PV aren't what the media would make them out to be.

[RJ_Daley]

I would love to be AS's agent.  I'd look for a deal for her days and weeks off.  I assume she spends a lot of time around Lake Nona honing her game.  I'd put that on the road.  Find a big $$$ sponsor and do a matchplay series like the old Shell WWOG or that old "All Stars of Golf" where Palmer and Player would go around playing other guys.  

I'd have AS fire up the old NetJets, and have a skeleton TV crew cover a match play series at some of these old veneralble courses two days a week on her weeks off.  AS vs a series of interesting male pros (seniors-nationwides-select tour guys of note who recently won-like Funk) two days, 36 hole, match play.  

After about 10 of these, we ought to know something definitive about AS's ability to compete with various men at various levels.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Dave,
I think her number was 275yds when I checked..
No doubt she would have to try harder, I just wouldn't put it past her to do so.  

[Ted Kramer]

Dave,
Because there are few absolutes when it comes to playing this game, that's why.

Annika hits it out there like Pavin, Funk, Roberts, Haas, Parry, etc.. She has something like 20+ rounds in the 60s this season. She faired well at the Colonial. The list of superlatives relating to her game is impressive, as we all know.
You say that Annika can't shoot 64 from 7,000 yds. more than a few times a year. How much of a chance is there that she'd pull that round out in the hypothetical match-up between Am and Pro?

Maybe one day she'll have won everything she wanted to win on the LPGA Tour and decide to try out the men's side. My opinion, she would stay in the top 150. Sooner or later an AK or MW is going to make it out there.    

Jim, my point is simply that she just doesn't have the offense to go really low when she's on at long distances.  Stretch her to north of 7000 (let's say 7300) and she'll play well because she's reasonably long and very straight, but she at 7300 yards, she's hitting longer clubs in and bomber Walker Cup types are hitting wedges.  If they're on that day, they will win.  Yes, there are few absolutes in the game, but one of them is that on average the closer you are, the closer you hit it.    

And don't get fooled by her driving numbers.  LPGA fairways are rock hard.  I saw that 305 number she had up for a while last week.  No chance under normal conditions.  What's her swing speed, 110-115 or so??

You keep on mentioning a big "if".
"If they are on that day" - reffering to the Walker Cup guys . . .
Annika brings it just about every single round.
How many times out of 10 does the Walker Cup Bomber bring his best stuff?

Again, I'm not looking for an answer . . .
just making a point.

-Ted

[George Pazin]

Annika brings it almost every time on courses that are setup for the average LPGA player. I could be very wrong, but I'd be surprised if those setups compared in terms of difficulty to the setups for the top male amateurs. I will defer to the wisdom of our various players and officials.

Annika is clearly at a different level from all other women golfers. I'd be curious to see how that translates, but I don't expect we'll find out anytime soon.