Annika to play Pine Valley & Merion

[Steve_ Shaffer]

In Joe Logan's notes from the the LPGA, he reports in today's Philadelphia Inquirer that Annika will play PV today and Merion tomorrow before returning to Lake Nona to prep for the Women's Open.This will be her first visits to both courses.

I'm looking forward to reports from those who may be present on her efforts.

[TEPaul]

If she does that at PVGC and Merion they should put her on the new tips just to see what happens.

The best score ever shot by a lady at PVGC, by the way, is believed to be a 72 by Beth Daniel in 1995.

Carole Semple Thompson played PVGC a number of times---she never shot more than 78 and her best was 75.

[Sean Leary]

Tom,

Don't you think that, from say the 6600 yard tees, that Annika has a very good chance to shoot a good score.  As straight as she drives it (she might hit ebery fairway there), and as good as her distance control is with her irons, if she putts worth a damn I would think she has a chance to break 70...

[TEPaul]

Sean:

If Annika Sorenstam plays from the tips at their new listed yardage of 6999 and she stays what they refer to at PVGC as "Other"-free, I would bet she could shoot 75 or under. Sorenstam hits it far enough to do that I think. If she plays the tips though, she'll have to fly the ball over 265 to drive it over "Holmans Hollow" and about 250 to reach the fairway on #18. I wouldn't put that past her.

However, I really doubt someone like Sorenstam could shoot something like 75 or better in something like Crump Cup qualifying the way the course is set-up then. The course is just too much more difficult than it generally is. She may be able to do it on a day like today though.

[Voytek Wilczak]

However, I really doubt someone like Sorenstam could shoot something like 75 or better in something like Crump Cup qualifying the way the course is set-up then. The course is just too much more difficult than it generally is. She may be able to do it on a day like today though.

I attended the Crump Cup twice and both times it was rainy and windy. What a bear PV was in these conditions! The mid-amateurs creamed the ball, and still were coming up short or to the side of greens (and you know what that means at PV). Annika might shoot 80 under such circumstances.

[ChipOat]

Given how difficult the pre-Am Merion setup is these days (and assuming she plays both courses from comparable sets of tee markers - let's say 6600 yards - about right for a USGA Women's Open), I wonder which one she'll think is more difficult?  Or better? Or the one she liked the best?

What is the raison d'etre for this great golf day that she's experiencing?  Commercial?  Totally social?

[Dan Herrmann]

for what it's worth - her avg driving distance at Bulle Rock was between 300 and 305.  Of course, that isn't carry, but it's better than probaly 99% of the folks that frequent the Treehouse  

[wsmorrison]

Dan,

Come on, 300-305?  Sounds like the tour is fudging the numbers.  What holes? Downhill/downwind?  

More importantly, she's single now, right?  I wonder where she's staying...I might try my best lines on her--if I can remember any of them  

[Tony_Chapman]

Wayne - I believe the acutal number was around 283. She was behind only Laura Davies on the week. Ms. Wie was third.

[rgkeller]

Sean:

If Annika Sorenstam plays from the tips at their new listed yardage of 6999 and she stays what they refer to at PVGC as "Other"-free, I would bet she could shoot 75 or under. Sorenstam hits it far enough to do that I think. If she plays the tips though, she'll have to fly the ball over 265 to drive it over "Holmans Hollow" and about 250 to reach the fairway on #18. I wouldn't put that past her.

However, I really doubt someone like Sorenstam could shoot something like 75 or better in something like Crump Cup qualifying the way the course is set-up then. The course is just too much more difficult than it generally is. She may be able to do it on a day like today though.

So you do not believe that Sorenstam would win the Crump Cup if entered?

[Sean Leary]

Tom,

Totally agreed regarding the setup.  That is why I was using the 6600 figure as well.  I doubt that when Bob Tway shot sixtynothing to set the non competitition course record that it was under crump cup conditions either.  Any one know what the course record (non-competition) is from the new back tees.

As an aside on Annika, I watched a bit of it this weekend and all I could think of was that her swing and ballstriking looked like a video game.  Perfect balance, doesn't look like she is swinging hard and all, yet bombed down the middle almost every time.  Like a robot...

[Tom_Doak]

Unfortunately for Annika, wherever she goes now, everyone wants to know what she is going to shoot compared to the men.  I'm sure she is going there to test herself, but it's too bad she can't do this without everyone else grading her.

Or maybe she's just interested in seeing the best courses in the world and learning something about golf architecture.  Thank God no one was posting my scores at Pine Valley online!  

[TEPaul]

"So you do not believe that Sorenstam would win the Crump Cup if entered? "

rg:

I hadn't thought about it that way. Hmmm, that'd be interesting to consider. I probably wouldn't put that past her either. I think in reality Sorenstam is probably a whole lot better in relation to even top flight male golfers than most understand or are willing to admit.

If she could compete against the men tour pros as well as she did in Texas last year (what did she do, miss the cut by a shot or something?) how could you rule her out as having a pretty good shot at beating some good men mid-ams to win the Crump Cup?

If you put her up against someone like Trip Kuehne (who plays in the Crump Cup) seven days in a week who do you think would come out on top? Have you ever seen that guy hit the ball? Jeesus almightee! She'd sure be way behind him but she sure does fire in every other category about as well as is possible.

Invitational tournament committees under the rules have the power to do more than most know and inviting a lady tour player to the Crump Cup is one of them. I think Gordon Brewer or Buddy Marucci should consider inviting Annika.

If I still played in the Crump I'd even Offer to room with her once I got a good look at her. I do know she has a very cute little Scandanavian voice.

[wsmorrison]

Tom,

I heard she would really like to room with you too, but your reputation for snoring exceeds your reputation for just about everything else  

[JESII]

I plan on tuning into this thread a bit later to catch up to all of the posts, but one question that popped into my head after reading the first couple of posts:

Is it a common assumption on this thread that the top 20 or so Crump players are better than Annika?

[wsmorrison]

Jim,

I've seen a few Crump Cup events.  I didn't think any of the top 20 would be able to beat her on a regular basis.  If she can carry the ball 250+, she's competitive on every hole.

[Ted Kramer]

I don't know much about the Crump Cup or other Top Am events but I'd be happy to bet $100 on Annika to win any Men's Am. anywhere anytime.

Now just like betting on any one person or team to win against "the  field" I'd be expecting odds on that $100 - but on any course playing 6,800 yds or less I'd bet $100 on her straight up against any man on the planet who isn't on one of the big Tours.

-Ted

[Sean Leary]

Ted,

I would take you up on that bet for the US Am, definitely. US mid am, she would contend, I would think...

[TEPaul]

Well, then Wayne, if I roomed with her down there maybe I just wouldn't sleep---that is after I got a good look at her.

Sully:

How do you think she'd stack up against the top 20 Crump players? Personally, I'd say pretty damn well but how does one go about analyzing something like that? Do you think the top 20 players in the Crump could just miss the cut in a men's PGA Tour event by one shot like Annika in Texas last year? Persoanlly I'd think most all the top 20 Crump Cup players probably wouldn't come close to doing that.

[TEPaul]

"I don't know much about the Crump Cup or other Top Am events but I'd be happy to bet $100 on Annika to win any Men's Am. anywhere anytime."

Ted:

I sure wouldn't go that far. But by the end of the summer we should get some kind of comparative indication on that. Tomorrow Sorenstam is going to play Merion East and that's why I think she shold play the new tips which are listed in the high 6800s. That would probably give you some kind of indication of how she might do if she played in this year's US Amateur at Merion.

You actually think she'd do OK against some kid like Ryan Moore? I don't.

[Ted Kramer]

"I don't know much about the Crump Cup or other Top Am events but I'd be happy to bet $100 on Annika to win any Men's Am. anywhere anytime."

Ted:

I sure wouldn't go that far. But by the end of the summer we should get some kind of comparative indication on that. Tomorrow Sorenstam is going to play Merion East and that's why I think she shold play the new tips which are listed in the high 6800s. That would probably give you some kind of indication of how she might do if she played in this year's US Amateur at Merion.

You actually think she'd do OK against some kid like Ryan Moore? I don't.

He is exactly the guy I was thinking of when I was typing my post. And my answer is yes, I'd bet on Annika over him on any course playing 6,800 yards or less.

-Ted

[Dan Herrmann]

Remember, it's the short game where the men do much better than the women.   My wife's LPGA teaching pro, who used to play the tour put it blunty - "They stink at putting".

I asked the teaching pro why, and she answered, "Lack of imagination - too much right brain".

[Sean Leary]

Tom,

 I wonder if Pine Valley is one of those courses that is almost easier to score the first time you play it.  Maybe  you don't get as intimidated by the greensites on your approach shots because you don't exactly know what is there, just listen to your caddy and hit it where he says. A friend of mine shot 68 the first time he played it, and hasn't shot better than 73 since, and he claims it is because he didn't know where the issues were and didn't worry about it.

PS  Annika would need to give him 2 a side, at least ....

[TEPaul]

"He is exactly the guy I was thinking of when I was typing my post. And my answer is yes, I'd bet on Annika over him on any course playing 6,800 yards or less."

Ted:

I sure wouldn't go that far and I know those who really follow these kids (because they need to do things like select the Walker Cup players never would either. Going into the Masters this friend of mine who's on the USGA board called me up and said he actually thought Moore had a pretty good shot at winning the Masters and as it turned out he wasn't that far off. I think Sorenstam has probably established herself as the greatest woman golfer ever but even that would never put her at Moore's level. Unbelievably when I went to the Walker Cup at Ganton last time Moore was never played and after that he exploded and won just about everything. They say he really is something probably in any league and so I doubt Sorenstam could do much against him. She really is good but so is Moore and he is a man who may be closer to stardom than most know.

Do you think Sorenstam could give Tiger a run for his money? If you do just tell me what the stakes are an I'll be in touch with you.

[Ted Kramer]

"He is exactly the guy I was thinking of when I was typing my post. And my answer is yes, I'd bet on Annika over him on any course playing 6,800 yards or less."

Ted:

I sure wouldn't go that far and I know those who really follow these kids (because they need to do things like select the Walker Cup players never would either. Going into the Masters this friend of mine who's on the USGA board called me up and said he actually thought Moore had a pretty good shot at winning the Masters and as it turned out he wasn't that far off. I think Sorenstam has probably established herself as the greatest woman golfer ever but even that would never put her at Moore's level. Unbelievably when I went to the Walker Cup at Ganton last time Moore was never played and after that he exploded and won just about everything. They say he really is something probably in any league and so I doubt Sorenstam could do much against him. She really is good but so is Moore and he is a man who may be closer to stardom than most know.

Do you think Sorenstam could give Tiger a run for his money? If you do just tell me what the stakes are an I'll be in touch with you.

I give her no chance against Tiger and I'm sure I could be wrong about her vs. Moore . . .
My gut says bet on Annika and I'd be willing to let $100 speak for my gut.

-Ted