[Pat_Mucci]

Seminole & Pine Tree might be the firmest, fastest two courses I've seen in quite a while.

Seminole & Pine Tree are both brownish-yellow with a tinge of green on the fairways and greens, with Pine Tree being almost completely brown.

Seminoles greens are putting at about 12 and Pine Trees at about 14-15.

Seminole's greens have far more slope and feeding qualities.
Several players de-greened their putts into bunkers and worse, starting with the first hole at Seminole, which is usually, fairly benign.

The fun and the challenge of playing both courses under these conditions, especially with the wind, is at an all time high. although, those that struggled might not advocate firm & fast conditions as standard fare.

While the climate and other factors won't allow for a continuation of these conditions beyond next week, anyone who doubts that their course could benefit from playing under fast & firm conditions should try to play one or the other, or both.

Unfortunately, I believe most country clubs will shy away from these conditions and that only GOLF clubs, clubs run by one individual or a select few or clubs who "get it" will allow these conditions to prevail.

What other clubs, as a general policy, want their golf course playing very Fast & Firm ?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Pat,
Its great to hear there is some semblance of intelligent life left on the planet. Although I might not advocate those kinds of green speeds, in fact, I think it becomes a bit ridiculous to have them that fast because then it all goes in the wrong direction. Bel Air is this way. The greens there are just to fast and it ruins the excellent F&F conditioning around the rest of the course, so is Pasatiempo when its playing its normal conditions. (or so I'm told. I have never seen the greens there over 9 or 10, but for those contours, it seems like a lot more but I don't think it is. Its more the slope or pitch of the property)

[SPDB]

Pat -

First of all, the term de-green is priceless. Second, the play at both of these courses must, by now, be tailing off for the season. Do you find that such firm and fast conditions generally appear this time of the year in FL?

[TEPaul]

Seminole was setting up for the Coleman and the word going into the tournament was the course was at the ultimate outside edge of reasonable firm and fast. Some players probably felt it was beyond the limit. But it's good to at least see the limits of firm and fast (both "throught the green" and on the greens) tested again after decades of over-irrigation. Just the fact that some clubs are accepting the color again is encouraging and the fact that the supers are learning the maintenance practices to do it again. Grass that's dried out like that is generally actually heathier and tougher than constantly over irrigated grass. Only problem is when it's like that it sure does take constant vigilance so it's not pushed past the limit or you can lose it pretty quick.

[Pat_Mucci]

SPDB,

Weather wise, April and May are terrific months in Florida and courses can get into ideal conditioning at that time of year.

Once June 1st or Mid-June rolls around, those conditions aren't possible.

I would imagine that October & November might be conducive to good conditions, but, it would be hard to imagine duplicating what's out there today.

Tommy Naccarato,

What makes the conditions difficult to cope with isn't so much the conditions, but the lack of familiarity with them and the process of getting aclimated, which takes time.

TEPaul,

While the course was fun to play today, I don't know that I'd have had the same fun in a medal play competition.

Having to recover from a bunker over a green, and faced with a down hill, down wind, down grain shot isn't easy on the nerves, nor is any recovery from 8-4 o'clock.

In the first three holes, at least one golfer in the group de-greened them, with absolute disaster awaiting the unfortunate golfer on # 3, who de-greened it twice.  
Getting back up to the green from down there is just about impossible.

Ball marks are non-existant.

Given the firmness, pace, slope and wind, I'd say that they were over the top, however, it's an amateur tournament, a nice social event, and four hours of joy, despair, tension and relief on a beautiful golf course with fellow competitors and friends in glorious weather is still preferable to 4 hours of surgery and post operative recovery.

Tonight, none of the contestants have any scars on their bodies, just their psyche's  

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