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RE Blanks

  • Karma: +0/-0
LuLu / Forse ?'s
« on: April 22, 2005, 08:53:21 AM »
Has anyone played LuLu after it's restoration.  What were the main changes?  Bunkers, Trees, etc. And what is the opinion of the completed project?  Thanks

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:LuLu / Forse ?'s
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2005, 09:20:40 AM »
I have played LuLu after the changes.  I believe that main focus of the restoration was centered on the redoing the bunkers.  There was also some green expansion on a few holes, a few new tees added for extra length and some tree management.

Overall, I would say that the changes look very good.  The sand was quite new when I played and it needs time to settle in.  The green expansion on the holes I remember was very well done, although the expanded areas kind of stuck out visually because the club decided not to regrass the entire green.  There is the original green with a Poa/Bent mix and then the newer expanded area is all Bent grass...so it will take some time for the look to blend.

I've always liked LuLu alot, it is a fun golf course, with a great variety of holes.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:LuLu / Forse ?'s
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2005, 10:32:17 AM »
I agree with Jamie's assessment of Lulu. In fact, I liked the work so much I joined the club.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

JNagle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:LuLu / Forse ?'s
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2005, 02:16:17 PM »
RE Blanks -

The focus of the restoration project was to reconstruct existing bunkers, reinstate removed bunkers and mounds, relocate a few bunkers(restoring Ross' design intent), add yardage where possible, add new forward tees, expand greens (1st phase included holes 3, 13, 15 & 17) and implement an extensive tree management program.  Through the use of early (1920's) photo's, a little archeology and the use of a talented contractor we worked very hard to restore LuLu.  I will leave the post construction comments to others.


Jim Nagle
It's not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or the doer of deeds could have done better.  The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; .....  "The Critic"

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:LuLu / Forse ?'s
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2005, 04:14:38 PM »
Jim:

Who was the talented contractor?  I'm sure they wouldn't mind a plug.

JNagle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:LuLu / Forse ?'s
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2005, 04:20:56 PM »
Tom -

Country Golf, from the fine area of Traverse City.  Jim Deemer did most of the shaping.  He and his crew did a great job.
It's not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or the doer of deeds could have done better.  The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; .....  "The Critic"

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:LuLu / Forse ?'s
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2005, 04:29:02 PM »
 Now that Jim has mentioned them,they did some new tees at Rolling Green. The "look" of the tees is as if they have been there 50 years. They are harmonious with the old tees.
   I heard that they were also careful to not tear up the area around their work. They came in, did their work, and left without delay.
AKA Mayday

wsmorrison

Re:LuLu / Forse ?'s
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2005, 05:50:22 PM »
"The "look" of the tees is as if they have been there 50 years. They are harmonious with the old tees."

Don't Bogart that joint, Mike.  Pass it over to me.  Are you serious?!  

Some of the tee work is excellent, but not all of it is as you categorize.  The laser lines and levels demonstrate excellent technical skills but are a bit out of place on a classic course, don't you think?  It might have been better to simulate a bit of old-style in the construction to make them really look like they've been there for ages.

There is nothing at all natural about the look of the new tees on 5 and 17 (an improvement would be to have the tee on grade to the left along the line of play) nor is there any harmony at all with the existing tees; they are completely distinct in look and position.  I find it curious that you think otherwise.  

On the other hand, the new tees on 2 (although oriented at a wrong angle), 6 and 16 are excellent.  The 18th is at the base of a large tree on the north side at that.  Not only should the hole remain a par 4 but the par 5 back tee is in a position that will prove difficult to maintain turf.

Now, see if you can get the club to put a back tee on holes 7 (+15), 8 (+30), 9 (+25), 10 (+15 as on a Flynn plan), 11 (+25), 12 (+25 tied into 9 tee) and 14 (+20; I'd take the sod off the new 18th tee and put it right above the current tee behind the path).  Then get them to get rid of all the internal evergreens.  A tall task, but you're up to it!

By the way, the work at LuLu was a great effort from design to construction.  Way to go Ron, Jim, and the boys from Traverse City!
« Last Edit: April 22, 2005, 05:59:21 PM by Wayne Morrison »

TEPaul

Re:LuLu / Forse ?'s
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2005, 06:02:47 PM »
JimN:

Jim Deemer and Country Golf from Traverse City MI? I know Traverse C. is a real big city but did you ever ask them if they know Tom Doak?

Steve Sayers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:LuLu / Forse ?'s
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2005, 06:57:19 PM »
I’d like to point out the restoration at Lu Lu is NOT complete.  We are still hard at work with our tree management/removal program, recontouring fairways, and numerous green expansions are still to come. The work thus far is great although I’m a little bias.

Forse Design did an excellent job.  Posted below are two aerials and the Master Plan.

Country Golf did an outstanding job! We even managed to play through the construction with minimal disruption.

I hope to eventually write a review of Lu Lu for My Home Course  – Steve S, care to help?

C. 1924



C. 1928



Master Plan



mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:LuLu / Forse ?'s
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2005, 07:25:51 PM »
Wayne,
    I am glad that you getting into the nitty-gritty of GCA with your future projects. Now, you can come down out of that ivory tower and live in the real world where compromise is the norm.While not all was done as I would like, I see the finished product as a great improvement and good work done by the contractor.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2005, 07:33:08 PM by Mike_Malone »
AKA Mayday

TEPaul

Re:LuLu / Forse ?'s
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2005, 10:57:49 PM »
I should say again that Steve Sayers who posted the eral photos of LuLu above probably did the best and most extensive research going into a restoration of any member of any club I'm aware of. I hope the club appreciates what he did as much as they should. I'm pretty sure the restoration architects do.

wsmorrison

Re:LuLu / Forse ?'s
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2005, 07:25:05 AM »
Mike,

Rather than stray from the thread on the excellent work at LuLu with any further with disagreements regarding RGGC, I will instant message you with my response.  

Wayne Morrison
Compromise is Not The Norm Building
69 Ivory Tower Lane
Not Real World, PA  


Kyle Harris

Re:LuLu / Forse ?'s
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2005, 09:02:13 AM »
Wayne,

You can rewrite that address as an analogue as:

Penn State University
10 Old Main
University Park, PA 16802

wsmorrison

Re:LuLu / Forse ?'s
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2005, 09:22:40 AM »
Kyle,

Is there room for Professor Malone at PSU?  He's about as old as Joe Pa but not as sharp mentally.   So now we know that when Mike "Real World" Malone says:

"The "look" of the tees is as if they have been there 50 years. They are harmonious with the old tees."

He really means:

"While not all was done as I would like, I see the finished product as a great improvement and good work done by the contractor."

 ;D
« Last Edit: April 23, 2005, 09:23:53 AM by Wayne Morrison »

Kyle Harris

Re:LuLu / Forse ?'s
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2005, 10:19:20 AM »
Wayne,

I didn't see too many problems with the actual construction of the tees. Placement on some I would I question (17 and 18 come to mind) however, they do look as if they'd been there, and as a first timer I would probably have thought that (I like to think I have a good eye for that sort of thing).

That being said, those plastic pipes terminating to atmosphere in such a unregal way would make me realize they were new, but I imagine they'll be gone soon anyway.

As for Lulu, I am eager to take a look, maybe I'll drive by it more slowly next time. I have no modicum of comparison but I am guessing there was a lot of tree incursion and a lot of lost green contour...

I'd love for Steve or someone to go into detail about Forse's work if they'd have the time and desire.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2005, 10:20:31 AM by Kyle Harris »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:LuLu / Forse ?'s
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2005, 10:57:04 AM »
This is the wonderful place I first met Tom Paul in person. Come to think of it, Mike Cirba too!

The first time I heard of Lu Lu was in a conversation with Ran, Eric Shortz and Geoff Shackelford. They were talking about Manny, (Manufacturers CC) but both Geoff and Eric got our attention when they started talking emphatically about Lu Lu. Eric had actually played it, but Geoff had just had a brief glimspe of it, but liked what he saw. If you look in the archives, I think there is a post from Ran stating as such--the interest of Lu Lu.

Preceeding my trip to Philly, emailing back and forth with Ron Forse & Jim Nagle, I had an pleathora of information from the aerial photos to descriptions from both Ron and Jim and I was further incensed to get there. I'm glad I did too because I wouldn't have gotten my chance to play the 4th! :)

Ron & Jim are both to be congratulated for taking the time to make sure this great, fun little course is restored properly as it should be. The club seems to get it in regards to their history and the preservation of it for the long term.

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