[Chris_Clouser]

John,

I would say I somewhat agree with the premise.  The bunkers, even in overabundance at Purgatory, can only help improve the site.  Do you know what that site was before?  A field.  How could they not improve the aesthetics of the site.  

Cypress though is a different matter, I think the way they were originally constructed the bunkers were there and the golf course was basically built through the bunkers.  Where now the grass has grown in and they still try to maintain what was formalized by Mackenzie, or whomever, as bunkers.  Different situation entirely.  But you also have to look at where it is.  When compared to the surrounds, I think today, the bunkers do take away from some of the views slightly.  Maybe when they grow in more and look more natural that will change, but I get your point.  

As for the HHA, that usually is a large hazard that needs carried at some time on a par five if you take the use at Pine Valley and subsequent designs by Tillinghast, Flynn and others from that Philly School of Design.  I don't know that I would classify the bunkers on the 17th at Purgatory as such a hazard.  I would more say it is more in line with a comparison of the 15th at Cypress that has rocks and the ocean around the hole where there obviously is no such option.  I think it was refreshing that Ron just didn't put a pond around another par three like so many are doing today.  That would have taken away the uniqueness of that hole and made it just another par three with water and it would have blended in with the other two that already have water on them.

[TEPaul]

And personally, as great a hole as CPC's #16 undoubtedly is, visually I don't think Mackenzie should have used any sand bunkering behind that green. As dramatic and breath-taking as that entire green-site naturally is I don't think it needed any architectural enhancement at all---other than the green.

Sand bunkering on that grassy/rocky promontory seems a bit more than a little incongrous to me. So why did Mackenzie put them behind that green? Probably just to create a visual key for the golfer. I say, despite how demanding a hole that one might be don't give the golfer a visual key on it---let him figure out where to aim on his own at that grassy/rocky promontory.

To me the holes whose bunkering tied-in best with the natural sand areas on that site were; #1!, #3, #4?, #5, #6, #7, #8!, #9!!!, #10, #11, #12, #13!!.

#14-#18 seem to me to be interesting enough landforms on their own and naturally without sand bunkering---although #14 certainly is cool looking although there appears to never have been natural sand areas surrounding it.

[T_MacWood]

One of the problems with bunkers today is the blinding white color, especially when contrasted with the green grass. In the old days there was more exposed sand (especially on the 13th), natural sand, and the bunkers appear to blend better with and are integrated better with that natural sand...at least based on the old black and white photos. Is it possible the bunker sand in those days was the same as the natural dune sand?

Another problem is the stiffness of the new bunkers, from what I understand their shape is locked in by a concrete (or concrete-like) form. I had no problem with the evolved bunkers a few years ago...they were quite striking in their own right....and they were built by MacKenzie, Hunter and Company. I assume when they rebuilt the bunkers they had to destroy the original work....which is ashame IMO.

It appears to me the bunkers behind the 16th green were designed to define the putting surface...without the bunkers the exact size of the green would be unclear.

They would also prevent shots hit over the green from coming to rest on the steep bank near the cliff over the little knoll. Thus preventing a half drunk MacKenzie from falling into the ocean.

[Ron Kern]

One of the problems with the bunkers on the 17th is that they are there for as much a reason to create a "Hells Half Acre" as for their shot value.   When I played the course with the pro who was a child hood friend he thought it was neat that a course named Purgatory had a Hells Half Acre....He had never heard of the Pine Valley original and if I remember correctly MacKenzie was not involved in that design either.   I would like to know which came first...the name Purgatory or the idea for a HHA...

The original name of the golf course was to be Sassafras Golf Club.  The golf course was designed long before the name was changed to Purgatory Golf Club.  And, the holes were named by the owner after construction and right before opening.

Here's a photo from another thread...


Golf Digest

[Bob_Huntley]

John has a point here. Most members of this site decry Dick Wilson's flash bunkering behind many of the holes at Disney World, but gush unashamedly at the back bunkering at CPC's thirteenth.

I have been fortunate to have played many times at CPC and have yet to see a ball played from either of the back two bunkers, to the rear of the fourteenth tee.

[Jim Bearden]

As seen in the picture below and also on the 16th Cypress seems to have these cut in a hill backdrop bunker complexes...I find them to be distracting and unnatural.  How is this either good or strategic and anything but overly designed eye candy that steals from the great beauty of the site..

Interesting observation except for one small problem. I am looking at my fathers edition of the 1996 History of Cypress Point Club. The picture you have posted of 13's bunkering around the green is almost identical to the 1930 photo in the history. In addition the bunkering on 15 is also almost identical.

In the mid to late 90's with the help of old photos and historic club documents the bunkering on the course was restored as closely as possible to the original. For instance it was discovered that the fairway bunker on number 4 was not one bunker as it had been played for years was in fact two bunkers. While I have not been there for several years the pictures posted reflect MacKenzies original intent based on original photos.

[DMoriarty]

Interesting observation except for one small problem. I am looking at my fathers edition of the 1996 History of Cypress Point Club. The picture you have posted of 13's bunkering around the green is almost identical to the 1930 photo in the history. In addition the bunkering on 15 is also almost identical.

In the mid to late 90's with the help of old photos and historic club documents the bunkering on the course was restored as closely as possible to the original. For instance it was discovered that the fairway bunker on number 4 was not one bunker as it had been played for years was in fact two bunkers. While I have not been there for several years the pictures posted reflect MacKenzies original intent based on original photos.

Mr. Bearden,

I think most agree that the shapes and the locations of the existing bunkers closely approximate that of the original bunkers.  It is not so much the bunker shapes/locations that have apparently changed, but rather the surrounds.  

 For example, in the old pictures sand was visible on almost the entire downslope from the second tee.  So the existing bunkers looked like they were part of a much larger sandy area (which they are), and therefore they looked more natural (at least to me.)  

Perhaps John should say that the bunkers look natural but all the growth in their surrounds look phony.  

[Jeff Goldman]

Also, if you look at the picture on the cover of the most recent World Atlas of Golf, it shows little rough, but instead brown stuff surrounding the fairways.  One of the caddies, who has been there on and off for 50 years, told me that when he showed up, there was little rough but a lot of what he characterized as "hardpan" outside the fairways and around bunkers.  Much rougher look.

[DMoriarty]

I have been fortunate to have played many times at CPC and have yet to see a ball played from either of the back two bunkers, to the rear of the fourteenth tee.

Interesting.

I take it you have seen balls played from the bunkers more to the left of the green, directly below the 2nd tee?  

Looking at Geoff's book, I am not sure that the furthest back bunkers were even formalized bunkers at the time of the course opening.   Is it possible that the furthest back bunkers formalized later in an attempt to preserve some of the open sandy feel that the area looks to have had originally.  

[Jim Bearden]

Interesting observation except for one small problem. I am looking at my fathers edition of the 1996 History of Cypress Point Club. The picture you have posted of 13's bunkering around the green is almost identical to the 1930 photo in the history. In addition the bunkering on 15 is also almost identical.

In the mid to late 90's with the help of old photos and historic club documents the bunkering on the course was restored as closely as possible to the original. For instance it was discovered that the fairway bunker on number 4 was not one bunker as it had been played for years was in fact two bunkers. While I have not been there for several years the pictures posted reflect MacKenzies original intent based on original photos.

Mr. Bearden,

I think most agree that the shapes and the locations of the existing bunkers closely approximate that of the original bunkers.  It is not so much the bunker shapes/locations that have apparently changed, but rather the surrounds.  

 For example, in the old pictures sand was visible on almost the entire downslope from the second tee.  So the existing bunkers looked like they were part of a much larger sandy area (which they are), and therefore they looked more natural (at least to me.)  

Perhaps John should say that the bunkers look natural but all the growth in their surrounds look phony.  

Mr. Moriarty
You will not get any argument from me on that I was simply addressing the bunker issue. As you obvously know the amount of sand that was present on this course compared to now was unbelievable in fact there was a huge dune behind the third green.
If you are familliar with the original 13th hole sand from the second tee then you must have seen the tee shot from 1930 also making almost an island out of the fairway.

BTW in looking at the old photos of CPC I find it almost more appealing than the current.

[Bob_Huntley]

Jim,

Welcome back.

For those of you who have stood on the 17th tee and then stepped to one side after your tee shot, you may have noticed a bronze plaque extolling the virtues of that part of the planet. It was placed there at the request of Boney Bearden, Jim's father. He was quite a man.

[JakaB]

BTW in looking at the old photos of CPC I find it almost more appealing than the current.

I believe that is a universal opinion of every course over 40 years old....has Cypress now become the greenest course on the planet surpassing AGNC.  The pictures DM posted are nothing but lush....not that that is a bad thing.  

[THuckaby2]

AHA!

I knew that name rang a bell.  Jim, you will be pleased
to know that Mr. Huntley told us some brief bits about
your father in a recent round at CPC.

And of all the spots to be memorialized on, is there
one better in the world golf-wise or otherwise
than that for Boney Bearden?

If one can't feel spirituality in one's golf at that
spot, then one simply can't feel it at all.

It's an honor to have you in here, Jim.  I say that with
absolute sincerity.

Tom Huckaby

[A_Clay_Man]

Bob- I now know why it happened, Just so I could post this.  I not only hit a six iron, 25 yards farther than normal, on the 13th, I was on the 14th tee over the left bunker, looking straight down at the green. I even said to my caddie, "this is one of my favoite shots". Being on the teeing ground was a bit of a bad beat. I wasn't able to execute perfectly due to the close cut grass. I am special  

[Bob_Huntley]

Bob- I now know why it happened, Just so I could post this.  I not only hit a six iron, 25 yards farther than normal, on the 13th, I was on the 14th tee over the left bunker, looking straight down at the green. I even said to my caddie, "this is one of my favoite shots". Being on the teeing ground was a bit of a bad beat. I wasn't able to execute perfectly due to the close cut grass. I am special  

Adam,

I knew that there would be one one-upper to scupper my theory.

Bob

[Bob_Huntley]

I have been fortunate to have played many times at CPC and have yet to see a ball played from either of the back two bunkers, to the rear of the fourteenth tee.

Interesting.

I take it you have seen balls played from the bunkers more to the left of the green, directly below the 2nd tee?  

David,

Exactly.

Bob

[Jim Bearden]

Bob and Tom,

Thank you for your kind words. Being his son it is truely amzing to me that he touched so many lives and that he is memorialized at one of the truly great golf courses in the world. I look forward to posting with such fine gentlemen as can be found on this site.

Jim

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