[Tom_U]

Given my inclination to avoid an ersatz-British course that's in Virginia, am I best off playing here (even with the faux-"Royal" status) or am I better off playing elsewhere on a Thursday afternoon in April near Richmond?  Comments and company if anyone's interested would be appreciated.
Thanks.

[Bill Gayne]

Tom,

Have you ever played RNK before? If not, I would suggest playing the course. I like the course.

[Pete Buczkowski]

Tom,

You might like to read this thread I started on RNK this past spring:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=13955;start=msg238240#msg238240

I recommend it if you are in Richmond.  The only thing that worries me:  the pace of play can be brutal.  We played on a weekend afternoon in May and it took 6 hours.  It was not cart path only.  So just be forewarned if that kind of pace can ruin your day.  I cannot say if they have the same issue on the weekdays but from talking with the pro shop they indicated it was not uncommon and that they shoot for 4.5-5 hour rounds.

Pete

[Sean_A]

Pete

How far is RNK from Manassas?  How much does a game cost (the site is not very informative)?  Is it worth the drive down?

Ciao

Sean

[Michael Plunkett]

Given my inclination to avoid an ersatz-British course that's in Virginia, am I best off playing here (even with the faux-"Royal" status) or am I better off playing elsewhere on a Thursday afternoon in April near Richmond?  Comments and company if anyone's interested would be appreciated.
Thanks.

I'll be playing Royal New Kent this Saturday (and Riverfront on Sunday).  I am expecting a typical Stranz course- hopefully more Irish or Scottish than British.  What courses do you play in Va?  

[James Edwards]

More Irish or Scotish than British  

[Michael Plunkett]

More Irish or Scotish than British  

Sorry just tthe Irish in me coming out against the English.  LOL

[Tom_U]

Mike: I don't usually play in Virginia--will be down for work on the 7th and 8th of April with enough time on the 7th to get a round in (even a 5 hour round   )  Haven't set up a time yet, but the largely positive reponse is encouraging.
Thanks,
T

[rjsimper]

RNK is fun - I think the course suffers from an identity crisis in places (do we want to be Irish dunes-ey - do we want to be a typical modern "oh look, a lake and waterfall" course) (esp. the finishing holes) but it's a pretty fun place - certainly a Strantz design.  In that area, I feel like the only two options you ever hear about are RNK and Stonehouse...but RNK is worth checking out - I'd go back...

[Pete Buczkowski]

Pete

How far is RNK from Manassas?  How much does a game cost (the site is not very informative)?  Is it worth the drive down?

Ciao

Sean

All,

Let me encourage you to ignore the marketing material and enjoy the course for what it is, whether its Scottish, Irish, British, or whatever.  Don't let the marketing be a 'GCA deal breaker' for RNK.  The fact is that its done fairly well and its fun to play.  There are some truly unique holes at RNK that any architecture fan will enjoy.  For instance, the 3rd hole is a wonderful example of an original par 3.  Not many architects would take the chance to build that hole, we should commend Strantz for it.  If you have played Tobacco Road you will see some similarities -- but in all honesty, how can that be bad?  There are other holes that you won't like.  This course will help you define your architectural preferences moreso than just about any other course.

Sean,

Its about a 2 hour drive from Manassas.  The cost depends on the time of day and season.  At their site http://www.traditionalclubs.com/ROYAL/ , click the 'Course Information' link on the left hand side and scroll down the page.  Their peak rate is 89 weekend/79 weekday.  Twilight is cheaper.

Its well worth the trip.  IMO its not quite as good as Tobacco Road.

Tom - Kinloch is a relatively new private course near Richmond that gets a lot of praise on this site.  I haven't played it so I will not recommend it one way or the other.  If you have access to it you may want to jump on it.  There was a thread on it with pics a few months back; see if you can find it using the search engine.

Best,
Pete

[Mark Brown]

I would play Royal New Kent. The front nine is outstanding and you really feel like you are in Ireland. The back nine is good but the terrain is not as good and they blew the end with a TPC like 18th hole. I couldn't believe it when I saw it.

[Rob_Waldron]

Royal New Kent is wonderful!. I highly recommend it. If you do not have a playing partner who has played the course invest in a yardage book. Without it there are several blind shots and layup holes that could ruin your experience.

If you are farther north, Bobby Weed's Cannon Ridge located on the north side of Fredericksburg is a great alternative.

[Pete Buczkowski]

Tom,

One more comment then I will leave your thread alone.    The course, at least the back side, has a pretty awkward routing -- you have to cross a couple of streets, and one hole (12th) is completely islolated from the rest of the design.  The 13th tee is close to the 11th green, but you go into the enclave for #12 before heading to the 13th tee.  (The 12th hole is really fun to play as a stand alone hole BTW.)  The front is walkable but the back is not - if the course is busy you would be passed by the group behind you enroute to the next tee!  Still, its a course to see.  Since you get a good feel for the property you can play armchair and determine if there was a better routing avail for the back side.  

[Bill Gayne]

Not to completely derail this thread but has anybody seen the new Mattaponi Springs golf course north of Richmond?

www.mattaponisprings.com

[Sean_A]

So, if one were visiting Manassas and had time for 1 game, would it be Westfields GC or RNK?

Ciao

Sean

[ChasLawler]

Not to completely derail this thread but has anybody seen the new Mattaponi Springs golf course north of Richmond?

www.mattaponisprings.com

Bill - I've been wondering about Mattoponi Springs as well. The local press seems to be hyping it, but I haven't heard any real first hand knowledge about the course. As it just opened in November, I guess it hasn't received a lot of play yet. I'm especially curious if its walkable, as most of the new daily fees in Virginia (or the nation for that matter) seem to be routed for cart-ball.

So, if one were visiting Manassas and had time for 1 game, would it be Westfields GC or RNK?

Sean - I'd play Westfields just because I'm not sure RNK is worth the 2 hour drive down I-95.

[Dan_Callahan]

I'm heading down to RNK this weekend, escaping the neverending Connecticut winter for a brief golf orgy. We will play Beechtree on Sunday afternoon, and then 36 holes at Stonehouse on Monday and 36 holes at RNK on Tuesday. I'm looking forward to my first times on Doak and Stranz courses.

[Scott_Burroughs]

My in-depth, hole-by-hole analysis:

I like Royal New Kent.

[Jerry Kluger]

RNK is just a great fun golf course but you have to get a yardage book as there are some holes where you just have no idea where you are going.  The second shot on the second hole plays across a ravine and is a great risk/reward hole.(A pro told me the best way to play the hole is to play short off the tee and cut across from there at a better angle.) The third is a par 3 where you can't see the flag, the fourth you can't see the green, the fifth you have to hit your second shot through an opening in some mounding and so on.  

Westfields is not in Manassas and it is closer to DC, and is also very worthwhile to play and very enjoyable without a need to really know your way around.  In Manassas, a good choice would be Stonewall although some people are really turned off by the housing.

[Paul Richards]

Great golf course - that is until you get to the last three holes and then you go ??

Overall, it's deserving of its place on the Golfweek Modern list, but I would feel much better if the last 3 holes fit as well as the first 15.

My two cents.

[Sam Sikes]

Personally, I dont understand what is remotely good about Royal New Kent.  It is indeed a neat experience the first time around, especially if you have never played a strantz golf course, but I dont think there is really anything worth going back for.  I have played it several times, and like it less and less everytime I play it.   Granted, the budget has decreased considerably since it was considered a top 100 golf course, but I dont think the routing is good at all.  It is probably one of the longest walks I have ever experienced.  Whilst we sit here bashing Fazio, Strantz produces some of the most contrived golf courses in the history of course design.  What makes him different?  Probably the fact that he hasn't designed many courses yet, so people are not tired of his style, similar to the early Fazio work.  Or, his theme on a given site remains consistent?
Images of the MPCC Shore course do look excellent though.


I did not know that Strantz was battling cancer, and feel some what uneasy having just posted my opinion of RNK

[Tom_Doak]

Sam:

Spoken like a very good player who goes to the back tees.

I am a fan of Mike Strantz's work, but I've never been a big fan of Royal New Kent, and even less of Stonehouse which I think was one of the most overrated courses ever.

The main reason I don't like them is that they're 500 yards too long.  Strantz's bold features are fun at 6500 yards, but silly at 7300.  Some would say you don't have to play those tees way back there, but I'd say it was silly to build them to begin with.  [If you can't play from them, who can?]  I believe that's the main reason the two courses have steadily slipped back down the rankings lists, although GOLF DIGEST will still have them highest for their combination of "Resistance to Scoring" and "Tradition" [i.e., having won a GOLF DIGEST Best New award ... they give tradition points for that!].

They are a pretty long walk, too.  I'll never forget driving my cart off the ninth green at Royal New Kent and having the GPS system inform me that I was only 885 yards from the tenth green.

 

[Sam Sikes]

Tom Doak,

That is probably a very fair assessment of my opinion of RNK, and Stonehouse for that matter.  However, I have not seen any of his widely heralded work, and will save my real opinion until then.

Most of my experience at RNK was from the Back tees because we were playing as a college team with our egos out of whack.  I have played good out there though, so resistence to scoring is not really the issue.  It is more a matter of the feel of the place.  I don't feel like Im at a real golf course when Im at RNK.

I do like a couple of the par 3, and 5s though

[Bill Gayne]

Sam,

Would you agree that RNK has the most unique GCA for the Richmond/Williamsburg public access market? Like or dislike, I concur with Pete Buczkowski "This course will help you define your architectural preferences..."

I am in complete agreement with Stonehouse.

[Sam Sikes]

Bill,

RNK might have the most unique GCA/Richmond characteristics in that its a Strantz golf course, but I would recommend Hunting Hawk over it any day(with the exception of the 7th hole. where it is an iron layup, and at least a 3 iron into the green.  We just play the up tees where the hazard can be carried.)  Hunting Hawk is a simple golf course with good clearing and fun holes, and its cheap.  Under $50 with a cart for sure.  It's a Bill Love design that won a major award a couple of years ago, and I think it is worthy.  Especially after a couple of plays!  The par 5s are fun, and there is is a good combination of ball buster par 4s and some short ones.  Last year they had a light rye overseed that absorbed just enough water to play firm in the winter, a rarity in Richmond.  As far as I can tell, they didnt move much dirt, and the native virginia grasses make for a great play.  I always leave Hunting Hawk happy and I cant say that for RNK and Fazio's Independence in Chesterfield.

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