[pacgd]

A very well-travelled friend of mine who's also a scratch player told me recently that the "original" Harbour Town (i.e., when it was first conceived and opened, before various tweaks by Pete Dye and the Tour) was just super, better than the current version, and probably Dye's best work.  That's quite a statement considering how good The Golf Club and Casa de Campo are, to cite just two.  

I've played HT only once, and that was in 1999, so I never had the chance to see or play the "original", and thought it was really good, but this gentlemen's statement just blew me away because he's got a good eye for GCA.  I really didn't have a chance to quiz him on his statement.  Has anybody on this board have any feedback/info on what the course was originally, how it has changed (for the better or worse), and how it compares and contrasts to Dye's other work.

Does anybody have any old photos of the course to compare with the current that they can post?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

[Mark Brown]

Changes to Harbour Town have been minimal and if anything it's better now. Early on the forests weren't bush-hogged and cleared so it was too narrow. Minor changes have been made mainly for the Tour Players ie. back-back tees.

Harbour Town is an excellent course and has withstood the test of time for Tour players, but for 6 handicappers and up it tends to be too exacting from an accuracy standpoint, from tee to green. Conditioning is quite good now, but the main hazards are the trees and small greens.

For a more complete and enjoyable test of golf I would try Teeth of the Dog and Long Cove

[Matt Kardash]

ya, I seriously have always had the impression that harbour Town has really not changed much, if at all over the years.

[ForkaB]

I played Harbour Town a number of times in the 1975-80 period, about the same time that I was playing Pebble Beach 2-3 times a year.  I remember in the early 80's doing a personal "ranking" of the courses I had played in my life (I was young and foolish at the time....) and I thought that HT was "better" than Pebble.  It is a superb golf course that requires thinking and superb golf shots to master.  The only other PD course I've played multiple times is TPC-Sawgrass and I think that HT is a slightly "better" coures than that one, which is also superb, BTW.

So, pacgd, maybe your friend is right!

[T_MacWood]

I would have to disagree with your friend. I played HT in the 70's, and I'm not sure its the best Dye course on Hilton Head. IMO The Golf Club is his best, followed by Casa de Campo. One of the weaknesses of HT is that it is as flat as a board....better than PBGL, I don't think so, neither is the Teeth of the Dog.

[TEPaul]

Pete Dye was certainly in his own little "cutting edge" niche (he created it actually) in about the middle of the 50 or so year "era" we broadly refer to as the "Modern Age of Golf Architecture".

It's most interesting to talk to Pete (and Alice) about the things that inspired them in architecture over the years and the one they tend to point to often is the extended time they spent together in Scotland "studyig" in the beginning of their careers. One of the things that caught their attention is the look and feel of some of the man-made "rudimentariness" of some of that old European architecture.

Another thing that caught their attention was many of the very small greens in Europe. And in a word that was the application that made Harbour Town a "break-through" design for Dye!

[Paul Richards]

He does have a very impressive resume, but IMHO Whistling Straits is Pete Dye's best work - by a long shot.

[T_MacWood]

Paul
Too bad about your Illini...I was there yesterday, a little too much orange in the arena for my tastes. Good luck in the tourney!

IMO Whistling Straits is a notch or two below The Golf Club and Casa de Campo.

[TEPaul]

Guys;

It never serves much of a purpose to simply say some golf course is a 'notch or two" above some other golf course or one course is a 7.47 on the Doak Scale and another one is a 6.81 on the Doak Scale, or one course is #8 in Golf Digest and another is #12 in Golf Digest. If one wants to make stuff like that at all interesting and educational in an architecural sense the necessary thing to do IS TO EXPLAIN WHY!!

[Mark Brown]

When it's playing fast and firm (which it does) LongCove is probably a better all-around test of golf with its brilliant contouring from tee to green.

[George_Bahto]

Harbour Town was a landmark course stressing strategy and accuracy of play - a course that was in the middle 6600 yard area.

Put in to the context of the time it was built, Pete built a very difficult course that was very short compared to what was going on at the time (meaning, at that time, the longer the course, the harder the course ).

I'm down there a couple times a year for the past 25 years and have nearly 50 rounds on the course. It is certainly one of my personal favorites and probably a course that first opened my eyes about GC architecture.

When first built the pros had their hands full with the layout and were whining every year. If I remember correctly the first couple years winning scores were just a bit over par.

As stated by Mark Brown it was really narrow. Guys with "swinging" hooks or draws were really in trouble off the tee.

What, to me, made the course so great, even though there are so many good hole there (8, 10, the great short 9th, even the funky 16th, and of course 18) were the par-3's with the tiny greens.

They have enlarged 14-green a lot - it was a terror originally with a deep pot bunker behind the tiny original green.

The par 5 15th had a great green that was difficult to play to (even with a sand wedge) but they enlarged that one too.

The 15th was one great par-5 with that tiny green!

As far as being his best? - probably not. I'll leave that to the "rankers"

Again put in the context of its day, HT was a historical landmark course based on strategy rather than length.

gb

[John Foley]

Paul,

In your opinion is Whistling Straits better than The Ocean Course? I've not seen Whistling Straits, but loved what I saw on the TV.

However, IMHO The Ocean Course is out of this world.

[jeffwarne]

I'm not sure Harbour Town rewards strategy as much as just plain accuracy and ability to shape the ball when the drive is less than perfect-
I've never really enjoyed my rounds at Harbour Town(note -I haven't played it in over 5 years) Always a 5 1/2-6 hour round,usually in poor condition,not particularly scenic(until the last 2 holes)
I do appreciate the contrast Pete Dye was trying to develop between HT and Palmetto Dunes(RTJ course).He wanted it to be different than that course being built at nearly the same time and certainly HT was the opposite of most 60's style architecture.
Funny thing is I'm a huge fan of Pete Dye and his influence he had on modern architecture,yet I've enjoyed my rounds at Palmetto Dunes at least as much.-(might be a statement about my driving ability)
I believe Long Cove has far more variety,strategic as well as shotmaking choices(fairways wide enough to actually favor a side),and the ground game is certainly more fun and challenging there.
The other thing is Long Cove was built on a mediocre piece of property(or at least not any better than the rest of HHI) and on a shoestring budget.It also is a pure housing development with the houses quite close together-yet Pete Dye still managed to make it great.(disclosure-I worked there for 3 years)
This is why I get a bit confused by the term minimalism(or don't understand the word)Certainly a lot of dirt was moved at Long Cove(unfortuneately a recent tree disease has revealed some  of Dye's previously wonderfully disguised, seamless shaping that disappears(or did) into the property borders)Also the course has a look and feel on many holes as rolling terrain,in sharp contrast to the property on which it was built and is adjacent to.
I'm sure Tom Doak has an opinion,having been part of the team that built Long Cove.

[JNC Lyon]

Speaking of Harbour Town, isn't there a review of Harbour Town in the works on the Courses By Country Page??

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