Canada's Top Golf Courses is now posted

[Ran Morrissett]

Around the world, there is a general consensus that Score Magazine in Canada does the most pathetic job of ranking its own country’s courses. Whether the panelists’ brain cells freeze and don’t collide during the winter months or whether their beer is too strong or whether they have been hit in the head too many times with a hockey stick, no one cares: the end result is the end result and the laugh is only good for those with medical conditions. The statement most often heard around water coolers is that ‘Score makes Golf Digest U.S. rankings look credible’  -  high praise indeed  

However, thanks to freedom of the press and their never ending search for truth and justice, four brave Canadians - Ian Andrew, Ben Cowan-Dewar, Jeff Mingay, and Robert Thompson –  are attempting to set the record straight. Their Top 25 Courses in Canada is now posted under the In My Opinion section of this web site.

The point is not whether you agree or disagree with their exact rankings (how can Hamilton with its butchered bunkers be ahead of Banff and Capilano ). However, after reading their comments, you may find yourself introduced for the first time to some very, very good courses (e.g. Cataraqui, Eagles Nest and Lookout Point) that beg for a round/attention. Frequently, an earnest - and polite - golf architecture student can eventually get on such courses.

Bearing in mind that Bill Coore says the greatest living architect today is a Canadian, perhaps a return to Stanley Thompson’s glory years isn’t far off? 11 of the 25 courses are built after WWII.

Read on and see what you think!

Cheers,

[Jay Cox]

Excellent writing, thanks to all.  

Re: Shaughnessy:  Ian Andrew wrote that the course has only 28 more years to live.  Why?

[Paul_Turner]

Toronto is better than Hamilton

[Adam_F_Collins]

Well said, Ran. The Score Golf rankings are questionable to say the least.

A very interesting list. I thank Ben, Ian, Jeff and Robert for their efforts.

Cheers.

[Adam_F_Collins]

I would've included Devil's Pulpit - at least as a mention.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Well done, guys.  See what can come of an informal GCA gathering?  

How do the four horsemen feel about Dakota Dunes near Saskatoon?  Where might if fall in Canada's rankings?

[Mike Erdmann]

Glad to know it's Firefox's fault.  I was wondering if I was just an idiot for not being able to find the article!  

[Matthew MacKay]

To those of you who have played some of Canada's better courses as well as America's top courses, how do we stack up?  According to many top 100 lists, not very well.  Have you played any Canadian courses that you feel deserve consideration for these rankings?

Don't worry about shattering my fragile Canadian ego.

[Robert Thompson]

I respectively disagree with Ran (and Ben for that matter) regarding Banff, but I do think St. G., Hamilton, Highlands and Jasper are all worthy of Top 100 status given the others I've seen on the list. I'd play any of the three ahead of Oakland Hills, for example, any day of the week.
But overall, how does Canada rank? Poorly generally -- only Thompson's big five (Capilano, Jasper, Banff, St. G and Highlands) are truly worldclass, and the new group of designers -- Tom McBroom, Graham Cooke and Doug Carrick -- haven't created anything that is truly remarkable. I think Eagles Nest is close -- and apparently Doug/Ian's work at Muskoka Bay is going to be terrific.
For a while people thought Rocky Crest (a Tom McBroom) course was great, but its reputation has fallen some in recent years.
Anyway, the ranking is a bit of fun and a good guide of Canada's best -- that's all is meant to be.

R

[Jeff_Mingay]

Awhile back, I had suggested that we not rank the courses 1, 2, 3... but instead simply list the "top 25" with comments.

Obviously, I lost the vote 3-1  

Jay: Shaughnessy sits on land owned by indigenous Canadians, and the club's lease is up in 28 years. I guess it's pretty clear they won't renew the lease, or sell the property.  

Scott: I haven't been to Dakota Dunes yet. I'll be in Saskatchewan this summer and hope to get out to see the course. The photos look promising.

You've probably noticed Roseland was my "honourable mention" choice. Check out the home page of my web site -  www.mingaygolf.com - to read about the course's recent designation under the Ontario Heritage Act. It's kind of an interesting story for history buffs.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

First, I must air my grievance with St. Georges being number one, despite not holding a candle to the fabled Highlands Links. While I was clearly out voted, there is no reason we should start to talk about democracy now and I want Highlands moved to #1!

I think the list provides a fairly good overview and like any ranking the bottom of the list could be interchanged with a number of courses. I think Tom McBroom could have been better represented, but otherwise I think the list is fairly solid. In the interest of comparison, I have included some courses that SCORE had in there recent top 30 that did not make our list, so people can have a sense of some of the others that may have deserved credit.

Royal Montreal GC - Blue Course, Beacon Hall GC, Rocky Crest, Fox Harb'r, Salmon Arm GC, Royal Colwood GC, Glen Arbour, Magna GC, Predator Ridge Resort, Kananaskis Country - Mt. Kidd and Devil's Pulpit.

While I have seen all of the courses on our Top 25 - except Shaughnessy - I have missed seeing a few of the above. Most notably Rocky Crest, Royal Colwood and Victoria Golf Club, which I hope to see this year.

To Scott's question of Dakota Dunes, I hope to see it this year and get a sense of.

To Matt's question; I think Highlands, Banff, St. Georges and Jasper all deserve to be in the Top 100 world, while Hamilton and Capilano would be on my bubble.

As for Mingay, he did not want a ranking because he did not want to be exposed as a homer for ranking Essex, Blackhawk and Wolf Creek as his 1, 2 and 3 votes.  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

thank you for your efforts and hopefully they will create interest and dialog that draws more of us up to see them.

[Pete Lavallee]

Could this sudden burst of creativity be at all related to a lack of hockey?    Great work by the Fab Four; I suspect I would enjoy playing their Top 25 much more than Score's!

[Jeff_Mingay]

I agree with my good pal, Ben: Highlands Links, St. George's, Jasper, and Banff all deserve to be in the world top-100.

Properly reworked Hamilton has a place, too. And Capilano is definitely one to consider as well.

Essex isn't one of the top-3 courses in our country, Ben. But Blackhawk and Wolf Creek are definitely 1 and 2  

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Carrick's Grey Wolf also fell victim to not having enough eyes see it, but is probably wel worth a look.

[Bill Gayne]

Fun to read and probably more fun to compile.

Any thoughts on the tree in the in the 18th fairway at Cataraqui Golf and Country Club?  

[ian]

Jay,

Shaughnessy is on leased land and the lease runs out in 28 years. The Indian band already wants the club to give up part of the course for development. This course WILL become development, because they can make a fortune doing this.


Paul & Redanman

Is this because Crump came up from New Jersey to help Colt, who was stuck for ideas, and designed Hamilton?


Adam,

Devil's Pulpit did not interest any of the four of us, and got a grand total of "0" votes in any of our lists.


Courses not on the list but drew attention and discussion.

Lookout Point (came close)
Royal Ottawa
Weston
Dakota Dunes (nobody has played it....yet)
Waskesiu (one vistor)
Victoria (one vistor)
Royal Colwood (one vistor)
Greywolf (one vistor)
Rocky Crest
Mont Tremblant
Beaconsfield (one vistor)
Mount Bruno (came close)


We are remarkably well travelled as a group, but it is really hard to see it all. Ben and Rob will have played Dakota Dunes likely by the middle of this summer.

[Philippe Binette]

As usual, Royal Montreal is underrated...

Althought there's none of the sexy bunkering that features some of the courses in the top 25, there's much more into it than most people expected... after all its resistance to scoring is amazing.

Beaconsfield. Cool course, lot of history. Plays very short and althought I love the place (great routing in an urban context) I can't rank it better than RMontrealGC...

I haven't been a Dakota Dunes, but the pictures of it shows some of the most ridiculous bunkers I have seen in a duneland context.(Round flat circles of sand, what were they thinking)

Once again, Montebello, a Thompson design course near Ottawa is not even mentionned... Great routing, lots of options and great scenery.

[Matt Kardash]

phillipe,
Our province is a wasteland when it comes to golf. If someone blew up all the courses in quebec no one would shed a tear. Except maybe Graham Cooke.....

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Philippe,
I like RM fine and mentioned it as one that could have been on the bottom of the list. The Red course could have too.

As for RM Blue being underrated "as usual", do you really think it is deserving of Score's ranking of 7th?

I have not seen Beaconsfield, but if you think it plays short and that was not your comment on Montebello, I am a little worried. Montebello is 6,200 yards and has too many trees. I love the place, but which course do you think it is markedly better than?

[Matthew MacKay]

Ahh, the ever-contentious practice of ranking golf courses.  I'm glad you assumed the responsibilty of numerically listing the courses as I believe there is quite a margin between the top few and the bottom few.

I might as well wade in...

The heavy-hitters are pretty obvious.  The middle section is fairly solid and likely could be arranged in various ways, although with some bunker work and tree removal Westmount could rocket up the list  It's the final few spots and any 'honourable mentions' that will draw the most discussion.
My only major bone to pick is Lookout Point which should rest very comfortably in the middle of that list.  Glen Abbey has about 9 good holes, not enough to crack any list as far as I'm concerned.
Others that may have been considered, in Ontario anyway:

Summit
Mississaugua
Thornhill
Highland
Burlington
Weston
Kawartha
Grandview
Osprey Hoot
Beacon Hall
London Hunt
Taboo
Rocky Crest
Wildfire
Firerock
Pulpit

There are a lot of good courses here now.



 

[Philippe Binette]

Ben,

Montebello, too many trees???

It looks narrow, but it plays wide, and it plays a lot longer than the yardage... I have not seen enough Canadian Course...

Beaconsfield, great place to play, even tough I am not a big fan of the new lake on 16th that Cooke has put in... It plays short but some holes are very difficult...

4) par 3 235 into the wind
6) par 4 460, into the wind
14) par 4 440

Even Graham Cooke hasn't built a great course in Quebec that deserve to be in top 25 in Canada. He has built lots of fun courses to play, but no real masterpiece that are great strategically, visually, and in the fine details.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Philippe,

I haven't been to Royal Montreal. I'm looking forward to seeing it someday soon; although, if I was in Montreal, I'd rush over to Mount Bruno first. Haven't seen it either.

Also, I have to agree with you regarding the bunkers at Dakota Dunes. Photos suggest the property offers some promise, but the one image of a bunker there I've seen has me a little worried as well.

We'll see... I plan to visit this coming golf season.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Matt,
I like your additional list, but lots of those courses you list have numerous weaknesses. I think Weston is probably the prime candidate and they are getting ready to do some work, so I have hope. I will give you my two cents on each.

Summit - Great land, weak architecture.
Mississaugua - Too many changes through the years to be great. It could be near 25..
Thornhill - Barely remember it, but I always remember wanting to play Uplands next door more.
Highland - Not seen it.
Burlington - A bit of a mess, trees overhang the fairway, 17 is unbelievably out of character with the rest of the course. Pretty bland on the upper holes.
Weston - See above.
Kawartha - Not seen.
Grandview - Mingay is a big fan, I am not.
Osprey Hoot - No disagreement, good, but I do not think it is better than any on the list.
Beacon Hall - Probably one of the courses that should have made the list. The style is not popular, the green complexes are a little overshapped and six and seven are dogs, because of the environmental permitting. The drastic differences between the front and the back hurt the overall course. Still, if this had been 25, I would not have complained.
London Hunt - See Osprey Hoot, though I think this lacks character.
Taboo - Redundant, bland and nothing that makes me want to go back.
Rocky Crest - Have not seen, but I bet I would strongly consider it in my 25.
Wildfire - Really nice course, good bunkering, despite the white sand, some really good holes. The land is a bit plain and I cannot see which course it is better than.
Firerock - Similar to Wildfire, but better land, worse surroundings and the irrigation pond on two and seven hurt it. Loved the bunkering and I expect to see more of it from Tom. I loved a few of these holes and am looking forward to my next round there.
Pulpit - Largese, everything the Paintbrush is not and I would play one round of ten there, only so I knew I was right!  

Philippe,
Some photos to prove my point:

Looking back on the first, which shows the trees that encroach on the first. Of course this hole will be gone if they go ahead with the reno.


The fourth, arguably the most spectacular hole, but those trees left....


The sixth, great hole, but look at the left side.


One more to show that I am not against Montebello, I do love playing golf there. I can understand why it was one of North America's most prestigious club for the first half of the 20th century.

[Jeff_Mingay]

For the record, I'm not a "big fan" of Grandview. But I will say, as I've said before, it makes nearby, and highly touted Deerhurst Highlands look like a joke.

There are some good holes at Grandview; few at Deerhurst Highlands, I think.