[Michael Plunkett]

CLASSIC

Mackenzie
Colt/Alison/Morrison
Flynn
Macdonald/Raynor
Tillinghast

MODERN

Coore and Crenshaw
Tom Doak
Mike Strantz
Bobby Weed
Gil Hanse

I like this list !     Would like to think Kidd may have more courses in him.     I like Weed, lol, oops-  Bobby Weed that is.

[JakaB]

My Big World theory on golf course architecture doesn't in the slightest depend on what I personally like. It merely depends on the idea that there should be loads of difference out there in type, style, looks and playabilities that others like! If there's architecture out there that I hate and others like and if they hate what I like---fine---that's just fine---it's a big world out there and there must be something for everyone!

Tom,

It really doesn't matter how big the theater is if you are always in the front row...

[Jim_Coleman]

  Jason Mandel's list looks right to me.  As for modern, Dye and Doak are in a league of their own, and I suspect Dye is somewhat responsible for Doak's vision.  Coore and Benny are next, and whomever is next is way back.  I don't get Hanse (who some have named) at all.  
   As for classical, "Jason's Five" are pretty tough to beat.
   

[Jason Mandel]

Thanks Jim, i'll have to trademark that  .  In case you didn't know I have a reason to be bias for Bobby Weed  .  
I just think Dye has to be on the top of the modern list, just look at how many architechts are working today that once worked with/under Dye.

The Long Cove contsruction crew  is one of my favorites, and probably one of the reason why Long Cove is one of my favorite courses.

Jason

[Mike Nuzzo]

1. Mine

crump, old tom, mackenzie, young young tom

[SPDB]

Therefore, the list is:

....
Colt/Alison
....

One last thing ....calling it CBM/Raynor is a copout.  There are CBMs and there are Raynors.  If you want them all, you've got to choose both separately.

Shivas Legal -

Like the CBM/Raynor choice, this too is a copout. There are Alison courses and there are Colt courses, and like CBM and Raynor, there are Colt/Alison courses. There are I'm afraid you can't eat your cake and have it too. Elect please, Colt or Alison.

[Matt Kardash]

Jason,
Don't pity Dye by saying he needs to be at the top of the list just because many of today's top architects worked under him. If he deserves to be in a top 5 list (as I think he does) it should be judged on his work and not those who followed him.

I'm sorry for picking on you, but I've heard about a million people on this site say what you just said. To me it's just a lame thing to say.

[Michael Moore]

I have been meaning to post these thoughts for a while . . .

If the question is which five architects, shouldn't you have to burn up two votes for Coore and Crenshaw?

That is unless you think that the team can be represented by the one.

I have talked to Bill Coore at length about the crucial role that Ben Crenshaw plays.

But to read this board you would think that Crenshaw is some sort of silent partner.

[Sam Sikes]

John and Jeff,

There was actually a rather large tie for sixth that included, Devlin/Von Hagge, Ted Robinson, Gary Player, George Cobb, John LaFoy, Larry Nelson, George Fazio, and Ed Ault

[Jason Mandel]

matt i dont think its the main reason he should be on the top of those five, obviously his designs should be the main reason.  his designs speak for themseles, Ocean Course, Harbourtown, Pete Dye Club, The Golf Club, Long Cove, Sawgrass, etc.etc.etc.

I just think its says a lot so many quality architechts have formerly collected pay checks from him.  Bill Coore, Bobby Week, Tom Doak, Ron Ferris, and others.  This isnt to say that one of these guys cant build a better golf course than him, and tom doak may build a handful that are better than pete's best.  but to a man, i bet will all of them will tell you how much they learned from working with pete.

jason

[John Kirk]

Here's my relatively uneducated list.  I live on the west coast, so I'll go:

Doak
Coore/Crenshaw
Mackenzie
Thomas
Hanse

I'm inclined to believe that modern architects have three big advantages.  They have studied the work created before them.  They have superior equipment to build their designs.  And they live in a time when America has a fabulously wealthy upper class who wants great golf.  It's just a matter of whether they can find enough prime pieces of real estate to realize their vision.

Tom Doak beat me to the punch on the future career value argument.  He is probably less than halfway done.

Never played a Coore/Crenshaw course, but the pictures here of Sand Hills and Friar's Head are stunning.  Guess they've built a few others, too.

I don't know who the third great young architect is, but I'll guess Mr. Hanse, based on the fact that The Prairie Club looks like a can't miss project.  There seems to be a lot of talented architects out there.

I'll take Thomas so I play in Los Angeles, and Mackenzie takes care of the Bay Area.

[Andrew Summerell]

Ted Robinson
Fazio (either)
Nicklaus
Bill Mario  


Mackenzie



The first 4 to remind me how good the last one was.

[Brad Klein]

Modern:
Dye, Strantz, Coore & Crenshaw, Doak, Hanse

Classic:
MacKenzie, Tillinghast, Langford & Moreau, Raynor, Ross

[Paul_Turner]

I'd have to see a lot of the world.  And I'd have to play a lot of links golf, so I could never pick a list like Brad's above:

Old

Colt/Morrison: for links, GB&I and Europe
Ross: USA
Mackenzie: England, USA and Oz
Simpson:  Mainly Europe...plus I have to see many of his courses.
Thompson:  Canada...many still to see.

[gookin]

Raynor - FCGC my home course. Can I play National?
Mackensie - ANGC / CPC are in my top 5.  I hope to add Crystal Downs.
Flynn - I am a sucker for the Cascades.
Crump - I have to play PVCC.
Thompson -  I was hoping to have Banff all to myself.

I could easily live out my life trapped in this loop.

[Will E]

Pete Dye
Langford
CBM
Ross
Mackenzie

[Chris_Blakely]

I have played too many of Emmet's courses to not have him on my list:

1.) Emmet (Leatherstocking, St. George's, Wee Burn, St. Mary's, Belmont Hills (for terrain alone), The Powelton Club (for the 10th green alone, and McGregor Links are all well worth the trip)
2.) Langford&Morreau (living in the midwest and after playing Lawsonia, Culver, Kankakee Elks, Harrision Hills and Becon Hills, makes them an easy choice)
3.) Ross (volume of good to great courses makes him a must)
4.) Thompson (hope to play BS and JP to courses played)
5.) Doak (would love to get to New Zealand sometime)

[plabatt]

James Braid and Willie Park Jr. gives you over 200 courses where they have had a hand.  Nough said.

[mark chalfant]

Seth Raynor
Donald Ross
William Langford
Harry Colt

[Mike Hendren]

Tom Fazio, Joe Lee, Arthur Hills, Rees Jones, Arnold Palmer

There was actually a rather large tie for sixth that included, Devlin/Von Hagge, Ted Robinson, Gary Player, George Cobb, John LaFoy, Larry Nelson, George Fazio, and Ed Ault

Sam,

My keen powers of observation lead me to assume your list reeks of sarcasm.  Please provide one hallmark of each architect listed in support of your criticism.

You are far too young (and likely too bright given your enrollment at Richmond) to fall victim to the cognoscenti at such an early age.

Kindest regards,

Mike

[Mike Hendren]

I'd have to see a lot of the world.  And I'd have to play a lot of links golf, so I could never pick a list like Brad's above:

Old

Colt/Morrison: for links, GB&I and Europe
Ross: USA
Mackenzie: England, USA and Oz
Simpson:  Mainly Europe...plus I have to see many of his courses.
Thompson:  Canada...many still to see.

Well done, Paul.  

Ladies and gentlemen,

Repeat after me:  "It's okay to admit I like Donald Ross."

Mike

[Ari Techner]

Ross
Mackenzie
Doak
Old Tom
Colt

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Colt/Morrison: for links, GB&I and Europe
Ross: USA
Mackenzie: England, USA and Oz
Simpson:  Mainly Europe...plus I have to see many of his courses.
Thompson:  Canada...many still to see.

Bless your heart for including Thompson!

Having just seen Doak's three in the southern hemisphere, I would have to say he has secured a spot on my list.

Mackenzie, Thompson, Colt, Doak and Coore. Tough not to choose CBM, Strantz or Simpson, which makes five feel really restrictive.

[Sam Sikes]

Mike,

You are correct in assuming a hint of sarcasm. From experience, the architects I named have absoutlutely no distinct characteristics in their respective designs.  For Ted Robinson, The Experience at Keole would be my first choice.  While the front nine has excellent land to work with, I can't remember a single hole except the eighth, which is just a drop tee shot at best.  Larry Nelson designed the Woodlands in Gulf Shores in AL, and it is nothing more than a below average golf experience, regardless of the land provided.  As for George Fazio, Pinehurst #6 and Butler National.  I enjoyed Butler, but I would hardly consider it an architectural masterpiece.  #6, need I say more?  As for Ed Ault, he seems to be one of those architects that clubs bring in because he has a great sales pitch, and nothing else.  The Sabot course at Hermitage CC in Richmond is a joy to play, but given the original routing, I think there could have been a great deal more strategic options that could have been utilized.  It is a good course none the less.  John LaFoy, the so called by some "king of redesign" made one of my home courses Huntsville Country Club, one of the most boring courses in the history of golf.  It is a course, that on a good day a 5 handicap could shoot 66, as a result of the boring green complexes and bunkering.  It is just a shame.  Huntsville has some of the biggest, oldest trees you have ever seen, and they are totally under utilized.  Nevertheless, I like to play there because I could shoot 63 on any given day.  There is certainly something to be said for fun golf, but the golf provided by the aforementioned architects, to me, is just vapid.  Maybe George Cobb just never got an excellent piece of property to work with, but again, I don't think there are any good, special design characteristics.  As for Devlin/Von Hagge, they just suck.  I can just imagine a par 3 with a green with no depth, bunkers everywhere, and water short.  I.E. Nashville golf and atheletic, Quail Hollow, though I did enjoy Nashville for its difficulty.  I am not necessarily a  cult fan of the doak and CandC designs, but I certainly do value decision making and options, especially as they pertain to the short game.  Therefore, I do not think the above are in the business for anything but the money, or maybe love of the game(kelly).  Im drunk

sam

[Kelly Blake Moran]

Sam Sikes,

I feel nothing more than just plain anger at you saying von Hagge sucks.  You gave some reasons I think why you don't like one of their designs.  Fine.  Leave it at that.  I worked closely with Bob for several years and consider him probably the finest gentleman I have ever met in or out of business. I know you can say whatever you want here, and you can be dramatic, but I know your phony when you say stuff like that.

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