[John Gosselin]

I would like to formally apply for the superintendent's position at this sure to be prestigious golf club, as long as I was hired pre construction.

I figure that it would take at least 3 to 4 years to semi agree on a location and design. Another 6 to 7 years to build considering all the changes. By the way, anytime a member would bring me an idea (change order) I would automatically say “great idea, we will start on that immediately". Throw in some miscellaneous time to name the place and persuade the numerous architects involved to not walk away and we are probably looking at 10 to 12 years before the opening day. That means I collect a pay check for all this time before the first complaints about over watering start to roll in, even though we don’t have an irrigation system.

[TEPaul]

Don't worry, I've always been about ten steps ahead and around the corner from my good friend Patrick. I do know how to humor him in a manner he actually feels he's teaching me something. I do it in a way somewhat akin to a good pychoanalyst whereby I'm actually able to bring him along to the point he truly believes he thinks of these things himself. It's very symbiotic. It's been a long process but it seems to be working--albeit slowly. With the benefit of long retrospection it's frankly been an excellent teacher/student relationship!

[Ted Kramer]

I'd hope that all of the holes would be named rather than only numbered.

-Ted

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

I loved the line about the "Super lasting about a week!"

Now for the real fun - The Annual Member Guest Invitational, and the Club Championship.

I imagine that the club would be eminently profitable based upon the lengthy discussions at the 19th hole.

Who would take the job as head Professional?

JWK

[THuckaby2]

Bob, you'll get 100% agreement from me about excessive gambling being a cancer.  I have a friend whose gambling got so bad that about 10 years ago, when he and some buddies went to Vegas for the weekend, he booked only a one way ticket, because he didn't have the dough for a round trip ticket.  When he lost everything he had, and had maxed out his credit cards, he tried to borrow the money from some of my friends.  To shake some sense back into this guy, they declined.  Left with no alternative, he hitchhiked home and then finally got some help.  So yes, I get it.

But the questions wasn't whether excessive gambling can be a cancer.  There is no doubt that it can.  The question was whether the statement that "more clubs and friendships have been ruined by excessive gambling than any other cause" is a full-of-shit statement or whether it's true.   On that basis, and that basis alone, I do indeed believe that the statement is full-of-it statement, ie, just a tad exaggerated for effect.  Nothing wrong with that -- but full of it nonetheless.

And might I add another reason for the statement's falseness -- the statement includes "friendships".  Can there be any doubt that booze, broads and deception have gambling outnumbered by about 100-to-1 in the destruction of friendships category?  

David (and you should notice you get the proper name when about to be scolded):

This is lawyer-speak and you, my friend, remain full of it on this issue.  Once again, be a golfer and a human and put the lawyer role aside for a second.  Yes, the exact, taken just by itself statement of:  "more clubs and friendships have been ruined by excessive gambling than any other cause" is likely incorrect, exaggerated for effect, and I'm sure one could quantify this.  Since there are so many other reasons that clubs and friendships can be ruined, it kinda necessarily must be incorrect.

But if you think that one statement is the sole and only point Bob is trying to make, well... you need to take some time off work and get back to being a golfer.

The point is that excessive gambling in golf can and does ruin friendships and clubs.

As a golfer - and hell, the way that is written, as a lawyer - you can't possibly deny that, can you?

And that is the sole and only point I was ever trying to make, one I feel very confident the wise and very experienced Mr. Huntley would agree with.

TH

[TEPaul]

I will not put up with boring arguing over excessive gambling and legal-speak in my golf club! Huckaby, Schmidt, and the others who took part in this discussion---you're all suspended for a week. Now get out of here!

[THuckaby2]

Dave (notice the lack of use of proper name):

Thanks.  At least you FINALLY have admitted that excessive gambling can and does ruin friendships.  That's all I wanted, and it was very surprising to me you had continued to deny this.

As for the rest, well I shall respect Tom Paul.  Enough is enough.

But you remain completely wrong on this issue, particularly about my friends.  If you think the issue there was the money involved, you are a lot less astute than I have previously given you credit for.

 

[THuckaby2]

More lawyer-speak, continued fullness of shit.

No bet, no hard feelings.  The reasons why are pretty inconsequential.

TH

[THuckaby2]

Oh Dave, I wish there was such a thing.  It would be an interesting language.  

The fact remains that these guys are great friends, and have played many rounds of golf together that were always great fun, with everybody ending up happy.  A large bet was introduced into one round and one friend ended up pissed.  Now you can explain it as miscommunication, oversensitivity, whatever you want...  But the simple fact is that if they didn't bet, none of the bad feelings would have occurred.

So I suppose you are right in a sense - the reasons why the bet led to hard feelings were due to miscommunication, oversensitity, etc.  But again, take away the bet itself and there are no hard feelings for sure.

So I guess we are looking at this in two different ways.  

My take is these guys just should never bet against each other, and certainly shouldn't have that round... yours seems to be that they should have better communication skills and less sensitivity, such that they could bet with no risk to feelings.

And to that end, we are both correct.

But my way is one hell of a lot simpler, no?  Especially since they do have fun playing without betting?

TH

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I think that these posts are proving that a GCA golf course/club would be about as successful as the Tower of Babel.

[Dan Kelly]

Excessive anything can ruin anything!

Case in point:

Excessive sidebars can ruin perfectly good threads.

Tom I --

Send these guys in to do the dishes, or something.

[JakaB]

I will not join a course built this century that has names instead of numbers indentifying the holes...

[Ted Kramer]

I will not join a course built this century that has names instead of numbers indentifying the holes...

Why not?

-Ted

[Ted Kramer]

Pretense.

Meaning that a course built now couldn't be great enough to deserve holes that are named? Or that naming holes "means" that you take yourself and or your course too seriously? Or that holes need to be around for a while before a proper name can or should stick?

I'm just curious.

-Ted

[Brian_Gracely]

I will not join a course built this century that has names instead of numbers indentifying the holes...

Why not?

-Ted

Barney,

What if they are properly named?  For example..."Uphill Par3 used to transition between two great holes?"

[JakaB]

I will not join a course built this century that has names instead of numbers indentifying the holes...

Why not?

-Ted

Because it would be gay to tell my friends that I birdied Outback Steakhouse through Burger King before making double on White Castle on my way to a 78....It is only a matter of time before product placement finds its way to individual holes...

[THuckaby2]

Concur.

But I wouldn't call it an absolute deal-breaker.

It would however need to be explained in context.  If it is done in good, non-pretentious spirit, than it's OK by me.  There's a course I play fairly often that a few in here are familiar with - it was designed by Todd Eckenrode based on a routing initially done by Neal Meagher, and it's called Shadow Lakes - and they name the holes after the designers, the developer, the shaper, certain cool landmarks... and to me it's kinda neat and not pretentious at all, especially since the names are just added to the numbers.  So there it works.  But at The Links at Podunk Hills Golf, Country and Racquet Club with holes named "postage stamp" and "road" etc., well... that's a definite negative.

TH

[Brian_Gracely]

This all goes back to Shivas' theory that there are certain things that Americans should not try and do in attempting to be British.  Other than NGLA, I can't think of one American course that has gotten hole names right, and NGLA just copied most names from the British anyways....

[Ted Kramer]

I will not join a course built this century that has names instead of numbers indentifying the holes...

Why not?

-Ted

Because it would be gay to tell my friends that I birdied Outback Steakhouse through Burger King before making double on White Castle on my way to a 78....It is only a matter of time before product placement finds its way to individual holes...

in that case i'd certainly agree.
but i was thinking more along the lines of keeping an old tradition alive in a current setting.

-Ted

[THuckaby2]

This all goes back to Shivas' theory that there are certain things that Americans should not try and do in attempting to be British.  Other than NGLA, I can't think of one American course that has gotten hole names right, and NGLA just copied most names from the British anyways....

You need to come play Shadow Lakes.  Methinks they got it right.  

[Ted Kramer]

. . . and like Tom H. said, i wouldn't expect any of the holes to be named "road", "postage stamp", etc. That would be truly pathetic

-Ted

[Brian_Gracely]

This all goes back to Shivas' theory that there are certain things that Americans should not try and do in attempting to be British.  Other than NGLA, I can't think of one American course that has gotten hole names right, and NGLA just copied most names from the British anyways....

You need to come play Shadow Lakes.  Methinks they got it right.  

Huck,

What are some of the names of the holes?  Are they actually named for historical events that happened in that area, or the architectural strategy, or something significant?

[JakaB]

Huck,

How can naming a hole after an architect or developer not be pretentious....That is the worst of all...I will also not live on a street named after a developers kid...

note: This century is only 4+ years old....

[THuckaby2]

Brian:  they are named after the architect, the shaper, the developer, others involved in the project, and after certain landmarks nearby.  Damn their website doesn't have the scorecard on it or I'd show you... but it's stuff like Todd's Twist (for Ecknrode), Diablo (for a hole looking right at Mount Diablo, in the distance), stuff like that.  I think it works and is kinda fun.

TH

[THuckaby2]

Huck,

How can naming a hole after an architect or developer not be pretentious....That is the worst of all...I will also not live on a street named after a developers kid...

note: This century is only 4+ years old....

JK:  that's just one hole.  And you kinda need to see this place before you call it pretentious.  There are zillions of overpriced homes lining it, but that's just California.  It's actually in the middle of nowhere and as far from prententious as exists in our state (which might be a separate question).  So yes, perhaps the one hole named after one of the guys who made the project happen might be pretentious... and if they were all named after him I'd puke...  but in this setting, and considering the names extend down throughout other people involved, including the superintendent and shapers, well... as I say I think it works.

TH

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