[wsmorrison]

Tom and I are fascinated by this design for the 6th hole at Opa Locka, a short-lived course designed for a large-scale neighborhood development project in Florida by Glenn Curtiss, of aviation fame.  The combination of the FL land bubble bursting (foreshadowing the Wall Street crash 3 years later) and a devestating hurricane caused many projects to become NLE also including Flynn's Floranada project--a very interesting investment dynamic we will discuss in our book.

[TEPaul]

Wayne told me last night it was up to me to comment on this fascinating hole and I told him all I could say is there's no question at all that in the case of this hole, its design and concept, William Flynn most definitely ripped a page directly out of C.B Macdonald's playbook at the Lido and put that page in front of a mirror.

Using sand instead of the water carry at the Lido's ultra famous "Channel Hole", William Flynn completely copied that concept and design in mirror image!  

[TEPaul]

However, I should at least amend that or offer some sort of caveat. In one recent thread, I think it was Mike Young who said it's often very hard to get a feel for what some hole plays like by looking at its design on a sheet of paper. The reason is it can often be pretty hard to near impossible to tell what the on-ground topography (vertical height) of the actual hole or any part of it is which can massively effect the way the hole needs to be played by certain golfers and what their realistic choices are.

The reason I say that is the primary difference between this hole and Macdonald's actual "Channel Hole" at the Lido is at the Lido the extremely long and high risk carry to that separate fairway section was directly in-line between the tee and the green (Macdonald praised how that high risk fairway lined up perfectly from the tee with the flag on the green) thereby really shortenting the hole and making it possible for the long player to reach in two.

On the other hand, you can see that the much safer extended fairway on this Flynn hole is in-line between the tee and the green appearing to make that safer route shorter. So the question becomes why would the long knocker want to drive the ball out to that high risk carry fairway?

Well one reason that appears clear from that drawing is that the green orients better out to that high risk fairway.

But what could it be about the topography on that hole that we can't tell in that drawing that makes that high risk fairway even more tempting and the apparently shorter and safer and in-line fairway less tempting? I guess we'll never know now---I don't think the hole is there any more!  

[wsmorrison]

Tom,

Courtesy of Bill Kittleman, we have a preliminary routing map of Opa Locka.  The map shows there was an airfield in the middle of the course.  Interestingly, the site today is Opa Locka airport, part of the Miami airport system.  The land is, as you'd expect, dead flat.

It is possible that the final plans are different in routing.  The final plan for the 6th is the same length as the preliminary plan but the preliminary is much simpler in design.  The preliminary plan shows the 6th hole to go from west to east.  I'm not sure how this design would integrate with the seasonal prevailing winds.  Tom, maybe you could say.

This is such a unique hole to Flynn (we haven't seen anything like it in any other drawings) that he must have intended this to have some design meaning.  I'm not sure what it is.  Perhaps par does come into play here.  Although par is not shown on the hole drawing, it is on the preliminary plan.  The hole is a par 5.  I think the only way to have a chance to go at the green in 2 is from the island fairway amid sandy waste.  It seems to me that the straight route to the green necessitates (certainly in 1926) going for it in 3 shots.

[wsmorrison]

Another interesting fact about Flynn's design at Opa Locka is that he did at least 6 iterations before finalizing the golf design.  How do we know this?  Flynn numbered the design iterations on the bottom right hand corner of each of his hole drawings.  

[TEPaul]

What could little Willie-Boy Flynn originally of Milton Mass who settled in Philadelphia and became rich and famous in architecure have been thinking?

At least on paper, I'd take that hole's fairway starting out about 150 yards and bend the entire thing with the tee practically attached to it all the way over so the tee sat in the very left corner of that page so that high risk fairway would be right in-line with the tee and the flag and the shorter distance to the green!

Didn't anyone ever tell little Willie-Boy Flynn that a high risk option that's very little or never used is not a good option?

On the other hand, little Willie-Boy was very very good, in our opinion, in doing what Wayne and I sometimes refer to as the "fake-out" concept--such as his plethora of reverse or outside doglegs. The non-concentrating golfer may cut the corner with its somewhat formulaic risk-bunkers on the inside of the dogleg simply because he thinks this is what he's SUPPOSED to do due to the plethora of formulaic architecture out there and if he negotiates that risk he may never even come to realize that angle isn't the better way into the green (due to green orientation, greenside bunkering etc)---the outside of the dogleg where there is no trouble is which of course the mindless boob may never figure out causing him  to make the same poor choices over and over again and to play the hole poorly too often both on his drive and second shot and never really understand why!  

Did little Willie-Boy Flynn put that high risk fairway out there off the direct line to the green just to fake out mindless gorrillas who weren't paying attention but thought if they took a big risk there must be something benefical or rewarding to the next shot?

Wayne and I call that Flynn "fake-out" architectural concept the "Take a big sledge hammer and rip your brains out to try to ring the bell at the State Fair simply to impress your girlfriend (and others watching you) and injury yourself in the process!" architectural concept!  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Wayne,

The contours of the green in relation to the angles of attack on the approach are fascinating.

[TEPaul]

Wayne:

What was that fancy technical word you were trying to impress me with the other day. Was it "the hypotenuse" (the direct line from A to B)?

Well, maybe little Willie-Boy Flynn, originally from Milton Mass who moved to Philadelphia at 19 to become rich and famous in golf architecture didn't stay in school long enough to find out what a hypotenuse was so he placed his high risk/no reward fairway options on the wrong two legs of a triangle!

Or maybe he was just one of those guys who naturally like faking out gorrillas and mindless muscle bound boobs who knew nothing more than to impress their girlfriends about how strong they were, despite constantly injuring themselves in the process!

[TEPaul]

"Wayne,
The contours of the green in relation to the angles of attack on the approach are fascinating."

Patrick:

Yes they are fascinating aren't they? I know you can't tell, so I'll tell you, those contours line up perfectly for the shorter and safer play from the fairway on the right. See that bunker greenside right? That thing, although it doesn't seems so on paper, is actually flat as a pancake and less than 1/10th of an inch deep and putting out of it is one of the better plays on that hole.

All this non-formulaic switcherooing on Flynn's part is simply to hoodwink mindless gorrillas such as yourself into swinging their brains out to get to that high risk/no reward fairway on the left and injurying yourself in the process!  

[wsmorrison]

Pat,
I agree with you.  If the pin is on the right side of the green(this portion of the green runs left to right), I don't think you'd want to approach it from the left with a long iron or fairway wood in trying to reach the green in 2.  The result would more than likely be over the green.  The smarter play to this pin would be to play the straight route.  The landing area, indicated by the small circle on the shot lines is a bit over 250 yards, the wind was probably from behind as his normal neutral landing mark was 240 yards.

Tom,
Do you think the notion of par has any bearing on how the player (brains or brawn) would adopt a playing strategy for this hole in particular?

[TEPaul]

"Tom,
Do you think the notion of par has any bearing on how the player (brains or brawn) would adopt a playing strategy for this hole in particular?"

Wayne:

Yes I do, very definitely. I think the world of golf is filled with golfers who are mindless boobs like Pat Mucci who not only think if you do nothing at all to a hole other than call it a different par number a golfer needs to play the hole differently but who also argue that fact until the cows come home.

I'm sure you know as well as I do that a good deal of William Flynn's architecture and the concepts of it literally fed off the fact there are so many mindless boobies like Pat Mucci playing golf!

When you come over today we can discuss how to present this style of architecture in the book as obviously William Flynn would prefer that this fact not be very well known in the future, for obvious reasons.

We could call that style of architecture;

"How to con muscle-brained gorrillas like Dave Schmidt and Matt Ward and mindless boobies like Pat Mucci into constantly making mistakes" and intricately define the details of these concepts and architectural styles or we could be much more circumpect and call it "fake out" architecture and not define the details of it at all.

In all seriousness, the best practioner of this concept probably isn't little Willie-Boy Flynn, it was probably that world-class architectural misanthope Alister Mackenzie in his architecture of "switcheroo deception".

I believe that particular architectural family-tree that does this best looks something like this;

Alister Mackenzie
        |
   Pete Dye
        |
   Tom Doak

[TEPaul]

"Pat,
I agree with you.  If the pin is on the right side of the green(this portion of the green runs left to right), I don't think you'd want to approach it from the left with a long iron or fairway wood in trying to reach the green in 2.  The result would more than likely be over the green.  The smarter play to this pin would be to play the straight route.  The landing area, indicated by the small circle on the shot lines is a bit over 250 yards, the wind was probably from behind as his normal neutral landing mark was 240 yards."

Look, Wayne;

Your job, if you want to be an intelligent guy and an accurate chronicler of William Flynn, as well as a friend of mine, is to;

First, never, ever, ever, say something on this website such as you AGREE with Pat Mucci,

and,

Secondly, when it comes to actually how to play a hole like that one above do everything you can to hold William Flynn's "Con" with mindless boobies like Pat Mucci. We, as well as William Flynn, WANT him to make bogies and doubles and "others" as often as possible and to potentially injure himself swinging his brains out for the wrong fairway!

[wsmorrison]

I stand corrected.  I have donned my horse hair shirt and scourging myself while typing and that ain't easy.  Sorry, Pat.  I must never agree with you again online...at least while Tom's internet connection remains uncut.  

[TEPaul]

"Sorry, Pat.  I must never agree with you again online..."

SORRY Pat??!!

That's even worse than agreeing with him!!!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Wayne,

TEPaul just hates it when I have to point out the relationship of architectural features to one another and their impact on the tactical play of the golf course, especially on a Flynn golf course.

If the full truth be known, I am his architectural Coorshaw, his guide for the architecturally impaired.

Did you know that when he saw his first Biarritz green complex at Piping Rock that he complained to the green chairman that the construction crew had forgotten to fill in the sunken area ??

Did you know that when he arrived at the 3rd tee at NGLA, he looked at the score card and started to yodel ?

He still thinks the windmill at NGLA is the remnant of the first miniature golf course in America.

And, for a man co-authoring a book about one of America's greatest architects, he still claims that the phrase, "In like Flynn" has to do with being accepted at golf clubs in the Philadelphia area.

It's not by accident that he refers to his residence as a farm.
I'm trying to recall the name, I believe it's Happydale.
It's the only farm in America where the employees all wear white uniforms and carry large syringe's loaded with thorazine, and transportation is limited to white station wagons with large red crosses on their sides.  And, typically, admission is strictly limited to those refered by their attending physician.

Need I say more.

Fortunately for TE, and unfortunately for us, he became interested in golf course architecture when basket weaving was dropped as an elective activity. However, field trips, off premises, are STRICTLY prohibited.

Should you see TEPaul wandering around aimlessly, feigning a search for his lost dog, Coorshaw, do not approach him, call the authorities as soon as possible.  And, if he asks what you're doing, just say, "you're ordering from dominos".
He'll probably reply that he loves that game, but just humor him.

[TEPaul]

Pat:

I've got to admit---you are a genius at comic relief---you really are! Matter of fact, that's probably about the extent of what you should stick to regarding this thing called golf course architecture!  

As I've tried to tell you gently, it's probably just best to leave the deeper stuff to me. Try to read it if you really want to  but don't tax yourself as often or as much as you generally do on here.  

[TEPaul]

"Did you know that when he saw his first Biarritz green complex at Piping Rock that he complained to the green chairman that the construction crew had forgotten to fill in the sunken area ??"

Pat:

Actually, that might be true! But it probably just showed my precocsiousness and latent talent for the art. It wasn't that long ago Bill Coore told me some of the greatest things in architecture actually started out as mistakes!  

Just another in the ongoing laundry list of wonderful nuggets on architecture from me to you---you, you, Big Booby!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Wayne,

Has the delay in getting your book published been caused in any way by the fact that TEPaul has had all sharp objects removed from his room, including pens and pencils, and that his writing implements are limited to multi colored crayons ?

TEPaul,

Inadvertantly, and without any conscious thought on your part, you've prompted me to begin a new thread.

[RSLivingston_III]

I am assuming this is a par4 hole.
The right fairway for most would be a three shot to the green. I doubt many of the better players of the day could carry and stop a ball over that green side bunker from 175-200 yards. Maybe a lay-up left with a pitch for the third for par?
The left looks better for the two shot option but with the angles would add another 10-15 yards?
Very interesting hole.
R

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ralph Livingston,

I am assuming this is a par4 hole.

At 471 to 500 yards, at a west to east configuration, in south Florida, with prevailing winter winds out of the east to south east, in 1926, that may not be a prudent assumption.

Imagine the hole as a par 5.
[/color]
 
The right fairway for most would be a three shot to the green. I doubt many of the better players of the day could carry and stop a ball over that green side bunker from 175-200 yards. Maybe a lay-up left with a pitch for the third for par?
The left looks better for the two shot option but with the angles would add another 10-15 yards?

Not only would it add yardage, but it would bring the approach directly into the prevailing winter wind, which at that location is not insubstantial, making the hole play much longer.[/color]

Very interesting hole.

[RSLivingston_III]

It is drawn as a Driver/Brassie then Brassie/Spoon/Long Iron shot.
With what was being done at some of the "Championship" courses of the day, 471 is in there with the other long par 4's. The left route was for the better player that could carry a drive 200-210 and the right was a bailout for the lesser player. Or the right could be for a really strong top player driving the ball closer to 300 yards that could get to mid-Iron range for a second shot.
R

[TEPaul]

"TEPaul,
Inadvertantly, and without any conscious thought on your part, you've prompted me to begin a new thread."

Pat, do you think it'll ever be possible for you to admit that you're incapable of being prompted to any constructive thought on golf architecture without me?

[TEPaul]

The Lido's "Channel Hole" was a par 5 although reachable by the long knocker down the high risk direct route fairway in two. Macdonald was just bursting his buttons with ego over that "Channel Hole" labeling it, without question 'the best 502 yard par 5 in the entire world!'  

[RSLivingston_III]

Sorry, my bad, I should have read the opening paragraph more closely. Being built for a neighborhood development, it was probably designed as a "sporty course" and this was a par 5 for the class of players it would draw.

[Mike Hendren]

Something's wrong with this picture.  The player who cannot carry the ball 200 yards from the tee must by necessity chose the right-hand fairway, from which he asked to carry the hillock(C)/bunker(D) combination at the 400 yards mark - a shot he has already admitted he doesn't have - to set up the ideal third shot.  Absent that he must thread his second through a 25 yards wide fairway.

The big hitter gets off scot-free on this hole.  How much better would the hole be if the hillock/bunker combination was moved 30 yards forward and 20 yards left, requiring it to be carried by the big hitter on his second shot from the island fairway? Heck, even maintain the far side of the hillock as fairway to give the short-hitting brave soul a turbo-boost onto the green.

That Flynn.  What a dope

Mike

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