The Mikes, Dave, Dan, Baxter and Rod!?

[TEPaul]

I've never actually seen the courses or architecture of Mike Strantz, Mike DeVries, Dave Axland, Dan Procter and Baxter Spann and Rod Whitman but I have seen a number of photographs and such of all of them and to a man their architecture certainly LOOKS terrific!

Are these six architects (or some others I forgot to mention) giving that GOLFCLUBATLAS.com contingent of favorites, TomD, Bill and Ben and Gil a run for their money or even topping them? If so how and why?

For those who have seen and played their courses what are the strong suits and perhaps some of the weak points of the courses and architecture of;

Mike DeVries
Mike Strantz
Dave Axland
Dan Procter
Baxter Spann
Rod Whitman

........?

[Mike_Sweeney]

I have only played Stranz @ Tobacco Road and saw his work at MPCC Shore. Based on that limited sample, I would like to see more, even his redheaded stepchild Tot Hill Farm. Even for someone like me who has only slight artistic appreciation, it is clear that Strantz is an artist. Visually his courses are stunning, yet the holes are also unique and memorable unlike some other pretty courses. I remember a good deal of both with only one visit.

As a result of the above, a couple of holes have some questionable stuff in terms of playability. There is one hole at TR that is a blow up hole (16?) IMHO. At MPCC, it seemed contained to the 18th hole, and without playing it I really am not sure.

[RJ_Daley]

One common denominator with all of the above named:  "Craftsmanship"!!!

All of them have worked for or with eachother and the Dye,Doak,Coore teams in some fashion, possibly with the exception of Baxter and Strantz.  But, they inspire eachother build teams of collaborating associates the right way, and put their time in "on-site".  Nothing can substitute for that attention to detail.

[A_Clay_Man]

I've only seen half of the list.(unless we count WWPB) But One aspect you left-off, in trying to extrapolate someone's future, is their willingness to constantly learn from theirs, but mostly other's experiences. Dave and Dan would be hard pressed to create something that improves on their work in NE.. But, I'd bet if you asked them they'd say it would depend on the site/terrain.  Baxter, appears to improve with each effort, and is forthwith in what causes him to say "WOW". He also has the endorsement of at least one builder, who feels he could become one of the best. Shhh don't tell him.

[Matt_Ward]

TEPaul:

In a word -- D-E-T-A-I-L-S !!!

Can they give the aformentioned people you named a run for their money? Sure -- if the sites present themselves and the ownership is prepared to engage their creative talents.

[TEPaul]

"In a word -- D-E-T-A-I-L-S !!!"

Matt:

In a few short words---that doesn't work for me. What D-E-T-A-I-L-S?? Have you ever really analyzed the awesome D-E-T-A-I-L-S of the architecture of the original Stone Harbor G.C.? My God man, there used to be some of the best D-E-T-A-I-L-S of some of the most interesting parts of the anatomy of M-A-R-I-L-Y-N   M-U-N-R-O-E!!!! out there. So don't talk to me about just D-E-T-A-I-L-S!!!

[Tom_Doak]

I sure hope that Dan Proctor is giving me a run for my money this week ... he's in Holyoke, Colorado, helping us get a little work started at Ballyneal GC.

We enlisted Dan because it's a local gig for him, because he's really talented, and because most of our payroll is either at Sebonack or Stone Eagle or still finishing up at Tumble Creek in Washington (state).

Tom P:  You need to get on the road more.

[Jlyon]

I certainly cannot do Mike Devries justice but I'll try to give you a few examples.  The first time I saw Mike was sitting on a little ATV pulling a leveling box to prepare the bed for the practice chipping green at the Kingsley Club.  The next time we met was when he was shaping/edging the bunkers by hand to give that “always been there” look.  Since this course was inspired by the style of MacKenzie , the greens are wild and the fairways wide.
Strong points: lots of options to play the hole.  Easy line from the tee usually gives a more difficult approach.  The line of play from the tee for the best chance at a par/birdie is a puzzle that includes slopes, wind, firmness and hole location.  Wild greens offer many options for putting.  Routing is superb. Minimalism at its finest with respect to earth moving.

Weak points:  Like Doak, some greens are criticized as being over the top wild.  Or green complexes that bring too much luck into the equation.

[TEPaul]

"Tom P:  You need to get on the road more."

I'm going on the road, and there's nothing better or more educational, in my opinion, than going on the road when some course is in the midst of both design and construction! I'm very sorry I missed that at both The Boston Club and Old Sandwich.

[Steve Lang]

 

TEP,

I’ve played 4 of 6 you question..

Devries – Kingsley (even bought a hat there!)

Strantz – Tot Hill & Tobacco Road

Baxter Spann – Black Mesa , (w/FDS - ?? his involvement in Bayou Golf Club, Deerwood, Golfcrest, Kingwood Forest & Island courses around Houston, and I know Paa-Ko-Ridge is mostly Dye)

Rod Whitman – Wolf Creek (between Edmonton and Calgary, Blackhawk (corrected,thanks jeff) (SW of Edmonton, across river from Devon!)

I know you've seen a whole lot of courses over a long time, but I would probably echo the opinion to get out of the east coast centric mindset with your travels.. and expand your reference base further..

Strong vs Weak

Strengths

1. What you see isn't always what you get or expect.  Visual intimidation and subterfuge co-existing.  First tee at Black Mesa,.. I was immediately struck with images of challenge at Tobacco Road's first tee..

2. They've tackled unique properites and maintained classic golf challenges of risk-reward, golf shot values, and promotion of the natural settings.   Wolf Creek may be where Scotland meets Canada, but Kingsley is where the Brit Isles meet Michigan..

3.  Getting there is half the fun.. Greens largely draped over the natural landforms with some extra spices added, strirred, and simmered.. a little local knowledge goes a long way at all venues..

4. The ground game is alive and well, essentially required to be considered first..  The front at Kingsley, much of Blackhawk, and Black Mesa.  

Weaknesses

I'll have to come back.. late for a tee time..  

[Jeff_Mingay]

Steve,

Whitman's course SW of Edmonton is Blackhawk, not Greyhawk... trust me