[Mike_Golden]

There I was yesterday, having to leave the PGA championship for a round of forgettable golf at a Ted Robinson 'masterpiece' called Tijeras Creek in 'beautiful' Rancho Santa Margarita.

So I get out there expecting the usual TR drivel of boring boring holes, faux waterfalls and the front nine turns out to be pretty good, with several Scottish style pot bunkers (I was in two of them during the round and actually almost made par both times).  So we get to the back nine, which we were told was in a canyon and 'really interesting' (always a trouble sign) and the 10th was actually a decent hole, a dogleg left with a pond fronting the left side of the green-this was followed by a nice par 5.

So, I'm feeling pretty good about this and we drive up to the 12th hole-which I look at and immediately decide-of all the courses Ted Robinson has ever built, this has to be the worst effin hole of all time-picture a somewhat elevated tee, dogleg left, with a barranca on the left, a fairway no more than 20 yards wide, and.......OB to the right as it falls into the canyon.  you basically have no place to drive the ball, nothing to gauge wtf to hit it, nothing-just a barrance on the left, and a hill on the right with OB beyond it.  So I took driver out, hit it right, over the hill, OB, marked down a 6 and went to the next tee.  So, there's one for Teddy

So, figure maybe this is one hole they had to shoehorn into the property, and it would have made a good 200 yard uphill par 3, but then we got to the first par 3 on the back, a downhill 175 yard hole where you almost can't see the green because of all the growth of brush and trees between tee and green.  So, there's two for Teddy.  

Of course, in addition to these atrocities, you had the usual Teddy layout of having to drive long distances between holes and huge elevation changes-I guess he specializes in taking properties with enough property for 9 holes and building the other nine on top a mountain.

So, Mr. Robinson, you almost convinced me that I could play a course of yours and have a good time.  Thanks for having enough crap out there to take that thought away

[A_Clay_Man]

Inn of the Mountain Gods (south east NM.) is the best I have seen of his. The par threes were all strong and aside from a heavy reliance on using trees as design elements, it weren't bad. The back nine actually had several holes that used the land very nicely.

[rjsimper]

Front nine was too much like Coto De Caza for my liking- just housing golf...like every other course in 949 and 909, but the back nine does a good job of not insulting some fun terrain

[peter_mcknight]

OK...the front nine looks like Tustin Ranch--same color housing and faux water falls, etc.  The bunkering is somewhat better at Tijeras, though.  The back nine runs through a canyon with unexploded army munititions, hemp and who knows what other types of drugs.  The course is a joke for the type of money they want for it.

[Mike_Golden]

I'll most likely never play there again and haven't played (nor I will play) Tustin Ranch, but I actually only paid $40 including cart for a 3:10 tee time on Sunday through click4teetimes-we finished at 7:45 as it was getting dark-there is no way I would pay more than $50 at anytime-Costa Mesa Muni is substantially better.

[Eric_Dorsey]

Old Ted seems to take alot of baggin' here - but I got to tell ya - University of New Mexico Championship course is one of my favorite public tracks - I just love it.  It's always in immaculate condition, it's tough as hell, greens are always perfect, lots of undulation, par-3's are varied in length and uphill/downhill variety, par-5's are winding and tricky, and par-4's seem to run uphill to greens perched ontop of ledges; ontop of all that I think the bunkers are well placed and quite punishing.

any takers?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Mike,
You have perfectly described, I mean perfectly described Tijeras Creek to a "T"!

[A_Clay_Man]

Eric Dorsey- Do you mean the South course?

[JohnV]

Ted Robinson seems to have done his best work outside of California (not that beating his California courses would be that hard).  Tokatee is a wonderful course tucked away in the mountains east of Eugene Oregon.  The course starts off in a mundane manner, but gets interesting pretty quickly with the requirements to play shots both ways, determine the best way to play holes (driver or layup etc) while enjoying the mountain views.  No really bad holes, no fake water and a very walkable layout.

[Allan Long]

Adam,

UNM South is now called the Championship Course.

Eric,

I don't know that I would call UNM a Robinson course. Red Lawrence was the original designer, and if Robinson did work on it, he didn't change enough of the course to call it his own.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Why is it everytime a good "ragging on Ted Robinson" thread gets started, there is always some Oregonian or former Oregonian there to suggest Tokatee?

You guys did this with Trysting Tree also, and when I finally got one of these Oregonians to finally admit to me in a ersonal conversation, that it wasn't really that good--we had harmony around here.

John, When was the last time you played Tokatee and how much have you learned about golf architecture since then?

Tokatee--even the sound of it makes me want to go jump into a teepee and set it on fire.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tommy Naccarato,

I actually enjoyed Tokatee, and thought it had a good deal of potential for improvement.

Remember too, that in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King.

[JohnV]

Tommy, the last time I was at Tokatee was 1994 and I hope I've learned a bit about architecture since then.  Of course, I had the advantage of not being biased by your opinion of Mr. Robinson in those days, so perhaps I wouldn't like it as much today.

I'm not saying it is the greatest architecture in the world, but it was fun to play and not even close to some of the courses you and others have described that TR has done.

[Thomas_Brown]

I like Fairbanks Ranch in North County San Diego.
It's unlike other Ted Robinson courses I've played.

Sahalee is another course which seems to be outside of the So. Cal. canyon & ridge Robinson mold.

Tommy - I think we should do a blindfold test w/ you on some of these tracks!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Thomas Brown,

I also played a number of rounds at Fairbanks Ranch and didn't find anything exceptionally objectionable about the golf course.

Could it be improved ?   Yes, but, you could say that about almost any golf course.

John Vander Borght,

I too, had fun playing Tokatee, it was sporty, and I think it  had great potential for improvements

[Mike Benham]

.. didn't find anything exceptionally objectionable ...

Try saying the above phrase fast 5-times in a row ...

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Pat,
I think Ted Robinson would be exceptional at designing the concourse entrance of a condo complex in downtown Palm Springs or the new front yard for the former govenor of New Jersey who would feel at home there.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tommy Naccarato,

Tokatee was a sporty golf course, fun to play, but with terrific potential to be even better.

Fairbanks Ranch was also enjoyable.

Every course can't be NGLA or Merion.

As to the Governor, who has announced that he is resigning shortly, I suspect that more startling, deleterious news is in the works, and that his future front yard may have already been designed, depriving Mr. Robsinson of another project.

[Bill_McBride]

Patrick, how would you improve Tokatee?  A chain saw would probably be mentioned, but the corridors with some exceptions (#5 for sure!) are wide enough.  The first and third holes could use some more challenges (fairway bunkers, maybe a new back tee).  The meadow holes may seem tame.  I have played there several times and admired the ambience and the feeling of insularity on the course, even if there were other groups.  Maybe that's because it's pretty far away from civilization up there on top of the mountain plateau.  I didn't find any fault with Robinson's architecture at all.

Tommy, maybe everybody's got to get it right once.

[Mike_Golden]

Tommy,

Given that he seems to have designed some reasonable courses outside of SoCal maybe he is so intent on pi**ing you off he does whatever he can to design garbage around here.  Maybe you should try buttering him up a little and then he'll recreate Pine Valley in La Habra for you with a greens fee of $30  After all,amazingly enough, several of the bunkers at Tijeras Creek could have been expanded and deepened to be the equivalent of the DA (at least the equivalent of the DA-like bunker at Bandon Dunes that I escaped from several years ago).

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill McBride,

Primarily through bunkering.

I also felt that I'd make the water off the tee on the second par 5 visible, as it's in the driving zone.

Some tee shifting, lengthening and yes, a chain saw.

As I said, I enjoyed playing the golf course, but felt that there could be some improvement.   Some of the holes were bland.

[A_Clay_Man]

From the sound of things... The farther TR gets away from California, the better, or at least less waterfalls, he builds.

Do you think he's just designing for the clientel?

[Bill_McBride]

Patrick, agree on some added fairway bunkering, particularly on #1 and #3.  Not much going on there.  And you're right about visibillity of the hazard at #6, it's pretty blind. But overall the course is a nice walk and set in beautiful surroundings in that lovely mountain plateau.  I think Tokatee is worth a drive to play.

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