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Don_Mahaffey

Barber Poles?
« on: July 31, 2004, 11:03:23 AM »
My course, River's Edge in Bend, Or, is a Graves design on a fairly severe site. Basically the course is built on the side of a butte. Because not much dirt was moved we have a number of blind tee shots. The blind shots and the lack of a modern style method of marking yardages are our most common complaints. I believe barber poles in the center of the fwys at 150 would help with both issues, give an aiming point to the first timer and a quick yardage reference. My boss wants to plant some dome-like type of tree or shrub to mark 150. He believes barber poles don't look natural on a golf course. I'm trying to convince him that they are very traditional and no yardage markers look natural. Any comments on my dilemma?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2004, 10:21:53 PM by Don_Mahaffey »

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barber Poles?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2004, 11:33:39 AM »
Don,

Dome-type trees and shrubs don't look natural on a golf course!

The "barber poles" work great. They permit golfers to eye ball approx. yardage from anywhere, almost. And thus, help with pace of play, too.

I don't think they look bad either. Rod Whitman's new Blackhawk course in Edmonton uses them to great effect.  
jeffmingay.com

A_Clay_Man

Re:Barber Poles?
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2004, 11:42:04 AM »
Don- I sure hope your boss listens to you. He must not be aware of the asset he's acquired, when he hired you. :'(

Trees are just about the dumbest use of directional and yardage mark assistance accoutrement in the game, (save for boulders) unless the trees are huge old monsters that point the way and are almost completely out of play, ala The Preserve.

The barber poll serves the dual use you've chronicled and therefore, are efficeint,and hopefully low maintenance (lower long term cost) But also they assist in pace, by making the virgin not have to use their nose, I mean brain.

Pete Dye uses them all the time, does your boss think he's some slouch?

Important to use contrasting enough colors, Maybe even shapes of the lines painted, on the different poles. If your course is on that severe a site, there are likely instances where aiming poles might be needed at longer distances. The typical 150 pole is usually green and white with staright line segments. What I have trouble with is when they use blue for the 200 with the same line pattern on the stick. It sometimes is too close in color, and I get screwed because I was lulled. Grant it, I was unaware, but often on steep terrain the deception is believable. I just hate being fooled because of the closeness in color. Perhaps a true barber pole, with that swirly pattern would differentiate and eleviate the problem and subsequent complaints.

Just tryin to help.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2004, 11:44:39 AM by Adam Clayman »

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barber Poles?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2004, 12:42:02 PM »
Personally I think barber poles look crazy on a golf course. They look like pimples on Briana Banks face.  I just played a course in Sacramento that had 4 foot high barber poles in the middle of the fairway and it was a complete distraction.  I prefer the sprinkler heads be marked with front-center-back yardage and be done with it.

Wayne_Freedman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barber Poles?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2004, 12:48:05 PM »
The best markers are inobtrusive landmarks beyond the fairway...a house, a hill, a tree, a peak.

Short of those, I think poles would be fine.  

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barber Poles?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2004, 01:59:20 PM »
Wintonbury Hills uses barber holes for all 150 markers and 250 on par-5s. They look classical, speed up play, and unlike trees in the rough that slow down mowers are removable so they are not a maintenance problem.

You have no chance winning an argument here on "natural." The criterion is functionality without being obstrusive.

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barber Poles?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2004, 03:33:06 PM »
Personally I hate barber poles. But it seems it is yet another thing I need to get used to. As the list of things I need to get used to when playing golf grows the justification for avoiding the game gets easier.

I prefer no yardage. It slows down the game. But if there are going to be some sort of marker, I’d rather it be much more natural looking than barber poles. It gives too much of a visual clue what to do from the tee. I still remember when golf was as much of a mental game as a physical.

Dan King
Quote
If I didn't know my distance to a yard, I couldn't break 80 on any golf course.
  --Lee Trevino

JohnV

Re:Barber Poles?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2004, 05:06:41 PM »
Don, I like barber poles.  Especially for blind holes, but I wonder how tall a pole you'll need for #1 (I assume the black diamond ski slope is still #1 there.) ;)

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barber Poles?
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2004, 10:01:14 PM »
Beechtree had barber poles painted black/gold as opposed red/white or black/white. I liked them. I can't remember  seeing barber poles at a private course.

Steve
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Don_Mahaffey

Re:Barber Poles?
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2004, 10:23:35 PM »
John,
As you may know, we've got a few holes where the poles would need to be pretty long to be seen from the tee. #1 fwy is a great sledding hill!

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barber Poles?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2004, 12:51:16 PM »
Don, I'm still not clear what type poles you are asking about.  Are you more concerned with 150 and 200 yard distance poles at the side of the fairway, or aiming poles in the middle of fairways to indicate a line over a hill to a blind LZ?

I like a natural item or theme item sort of marker for the side of fairways for the 150 and 200 yard markers.  Even just one at 150 is fine with me.  I love Wild Horse's cattle skulls.  They are easily removable for the mowers and should have a spike to stick them into the ground and hold them in place.  But the mower guys have to be careful not to misplace them when they are moved.  I'll vote for a 1-2foot white or blue stake than a gaudy 4 foot high barber pole.  How about something unique and creative, like a 1-2foot statuary of a sheep grazing?  ::) ;D

As to aiming poles, I prefer something natural.  I like top shot small bunkers on the line of play about 150 off the tee.  If you are hitting a ball into a blind LZ, why not have a flatish and easy to maintain bunker to add to the mental side of the play.  It is usually easily carried by all, yet it is "there" and going toppy the clown could put you in it, but because it is flat, it would maybe add 1/3 to 1/2 stroke penalty to your quest for par.  Of course Pebble 8th has the white rock.  

I'm with Sky King on this, I don't like barber poles...
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barber Poles?
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2004, 04:30:50 PM »
I think they're fine for daily fee courses, but unnecessary for private clubs.  It's just a matter of golfers not knowing their yardages - not a 'snob' thing.

I loved them at Wintonbury Hills, but would hate them at French Creek where I play as often as I can.

I think the best way to go is with sprinkler covers, but they require some maintenance, especially with bentgrass (they tend to be obscured by bentgrass pretty quickly, don't they?)

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barber Poles?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2004, 10:49:42 AM »

I don't think they look bad either. Rod Whitman's new Blackhawk course in Edmonton uses them to great effect.  

Yes for a public course they are quite helpful.  And Rod's course down in Ponoka, Wolf Creek, has some very nice skulls at the 150's.  I like those more.  They are real, and as the course is from the early 80's may predate some other examples of skull usage....

The pole at Blackhawk I found most interesting was the "aggressive route" pole on the 13th.  I thought there's no way I'm going to aim that far left.  I tried and had a much better angle in... although I still hit it into that monster right greenside bunker.  Great hole ... 475 yds.

If it were private and I were a member, I'd like no poles.

Cheers
« Last Edit: August 02, 2004, 10:50:10 AM by Mike_Nuzzo »
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barber Poles?
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2004, 10:55:33 AM »
quest for par.  Of course Pebble 8th has the white rock.  

...which I hit with a thinned 3-wood my only time there.  7 shots later I had totally botched one the great holes in the world.  

Thanks for bringing back such wonderful memories, Dick. :'(

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Kenny Lee Puckett

Re:Barber Poles?
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2004, 04:23:30 PM »
I can't stand the barber poles!!!

I hate the Christmas Tree/150 yards markers as well!  We eventually went and took them out of our home club.

Hope that you find a solution.  A hole map on each tee might help.

JWK

Steve Wilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barber Poles?
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2004, 10:42:40 PM »
I love barber poles for blind tee shots and approaches, but that may be because I associate them with playing golf in Scotland, and I love playing golf in Scotland.  I even loved it the time at Brora that I aimed at the wrong marker and pulled it left of left.  I especially loved my subsequent blind (directionally and yardage wise) approach that found the right green and left me with a birdie putt.  I didn't love missing the putt, but that had nothing to do with barber poles.
Some days you play golf, some days you find things.

I'm not really registered, but I couldn't find a symbol for certifiable.

"Every good drive by a high handicapper will be punished..."  Garland Bailey at the BUDA in sharing with me what the better player should always remember.

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barber Poles?
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2004, 06:31:21 PM »
I experienced and interesting method of marking the 150 and 200 yd markers on a (not so prestigous) course i played this morning.  The City Park Golf Course in Denver actually took stencils that read 150 and 200 and painted the 150 yd mark directly onto the fairway in white paint and the 200 yard mark in red paint.  Classy! :D ;D  This marking is in addition to small white and red posts on the fairway/rough boundary on both sides of the fairway.  

Cheers,
Brad Swanosn

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