Royal Troon Conditioning Under the Top..

[JakaB]

Could the greens be any softer...the fairways any lusher...or the rough any sparser....where is Tommy O'Meeks when you need him..

[Mike Hendren]

Could the greens be any softer...the fairways any lusher...or the rough any sparser....where is Tommy O'Meeks when you need him..

Undoubtedly calling God a quitter because He has made too much rain and not called down enough wind.

Mike

[Andy Levett]

Perhaps he could put a roof over it.

[JakaB]

Undoubtedly calling God a quitter because He has made too much rain and not called down enough wind.

Mike

Seems like I recall a couple of weeks ago your Hostess stained fingers calling for Meeks to play God and water the greens himself....so what is it.....and don't you have to agree the greens at Troon are just a little too perfect today for a links course......they need to be a little slower or alot faster.   Modern agronomy is putting the kill on the thrill...this stuff need to get closer to dead or I'm gonna get bored enough to get out and do some work.

[Mike Hendren]

Barney,

Jimmy Buffett had a great song titled "God don't own a car."
Similarly, I'm fairly sure he don't own a greens roller either.

Wouldn't you agree that Meeks accusing Els of quitting would be like me accusing a road contractor of bid rigging?

BTW, I have actually added a few lbs since we last golfed the ball together, but I swear I never touch a Hostess product.  That does make me a FFOB, however.

I suggest we rent a Humvee and drive down to Cuscowilla together in the fall.  I know good good BBQ joints along the route.

You beat all, Barn, you know that?

-Sheriff Taylor to Deputy Fife

Mike

[JakaB]

Mike,

I know this is a topic for another thread but I watched Els and don't think he played with the same intensity for tenth as he would have for first....that doesn't make him a quitter... it just makes him unqualified to comment on the condition of the course the final round......I've never been one to love a woman who doesn't love me back....and thank God for barefoot country girls who could use a good meal and a break from their chores..but I digress...I will be driving to Cuscowilla and would be happy to give you a ride....got rid of my H1 when they sold out to GM...but I might be able to find something interesting to take on our detour past Dollywood.

[Brian Phillips]

Barney,

Greens look pretty damn good on my TV.  The fairways look pretty damn good as well...

Wait until the weekend they will be even harder.  The commentator for us was saying the greens are rock hard and that not many players are having to repair pitchmarks..

Brian

[Matthew Mollica]

....they need to be a little slower or alot faster.   Modern agronomy is putting the kill on the thrill...this stuff need to get closer to dead ...

Hmm. They must be really soft. The last ten approaches I've seen have all been straight faced irons, played low, running into the greens...    

Matthew

[JakaB]

Is there really anyone at all that prefers the setup of Troon over Shinnecock.....as each week passes and we see more of the best in the world play....this softness grows boringer and boringer each moment....you can say the rain made the course soft...but how do you explain the sparse rough.

[Matthew Mollica]

Yeah John I agree. It looked simply awful. I mean, who would ever want to play a course set up in that fashion.

What's worse the softness of the greens made it a laughable day's play. Especially for Darren Clarke on 18. I mean, was that green a gimme or what? I've had harder Creme Brulee.

As for the rough, well, I totally agree too. Give me tree lined corridor like fairways, 20 yards wide, where the rough is so thick and well nourished, that I can't locate my caddy in it, much less my ball.

That's the sort of thing that we should all strive for. It makes for really interesting golf, where shot options abound, and the imagination of our pro's is really tested.

Matthew

[Alex_Wyatt]

John,

I have only been on the site a few weeks, so pardon me if this is a bit forward, but have you completely lost your mind?

Try this course out with the prevailing wind at 20-25 mph. What a totally ridiculous conclusion to draw from one days play with 4 mph winds from the easy direction.  

Shinny was a disaster on Sunday. They should have watered it Saturday night. If you dont understand the difference between thursday thru saturday and sunday at shinnecock, you don't really have any reason to be starting this conversation.  

[T_MacWood]

I wouldn't be too concerned. This is typical JohnK stirring the pot, prodding and probing, looking for a soft spot to exploit in his never ending anti-discernment crusade. If it were running firmer and faster, he'd be bringing another dilemma to our attention. He's a shit stirrer.

Its not wise to draw conclusions day one of a four day event.

[JakaB]

Shinny was a disaster on Sunday. They should have watered it Saturday night. If you dont understand the difference between thursday thru saturday and sunday at shinnecock, you don't really have any reason to be starting this conversation.  

Alex,

What percentage of professional golf exists for entertainment....and were you entertained by this most recent Sunday at the US Open...or any that Tom Meeks helped provide for that matter.   I thought today was boring golf... almost typical tourage fodder.   These are the most perfect greens and sparcest rough I have ever seen in a B.O....I can only hope it is not a direct result of the misperceptions of disaster so many people have spewed since Fathers Day.

[A_Clay_Man]

Shinny was a disaster on Sunday. They should have watered it Saturday night. If you dont understand the difference between thursday thru saturday and sunday at shinnecock, you don't really have any reason to be starting this conversation.  

Alex- Who would "they" be? Certainly not Mark Michaud. He worked so hard to get the course where he wanted it. Evidenced by how everyone raved Thurs. Fri. and Sat.

Why would anyone want to step-in and stop the perfect pendulum, especially when Mother Nature cooperated so beautifully?

That would be a farce.

[TEPaul]

"I wouldn't be too concerned. This is typical JohnK stirring the pot, prodding and probing, looking for a soft spot to exploit in his never ending anti-discernment crusade. If it were running firmer and faster, he'd be bringing another dilemma to our attention. He's a shit stirrer."

Tom MacW:

That's obviously true---but the scary thing to consider is that John may actually believe some of the things he says on here such as what he's said on this thread. If he does believe the things he's said on this thread, though, it doesn't concern me at all---as it completely strengthens my "Big World Theory" (Golf and it's architecture is a great big thing and there really is room in it for everyone)---a concept John B. apparently detests, by the way!  

MatthewM;

Your post #9 is perhaps one of the finest posts I've ever seen on here for subtle sarcasm! Congratulations, personally I greatly admire that style and technique, particularly on this website!

[Marc Haring]

Yeah you Guy’s are right about those fairways. I reckon he must have fed them about 1962 after that other Open. Yeah they’re as lush as Mrs Woods.

As for the greens, some of them will hold a ball after only 10 bounces.

Sad though it may be, here’s a pic of fairway #6 taken last Friday. (Hey, I'm a greenkeeper)



Those suckers are hard and fast and the greens perfect. Oh, and it doesn’t matter how dry and windy it gets, they are not going to wilt and die because there’s not a lot of poa in them and they breed the grass tough in Ayrshire.    

[JakaB]

Is anybody else sick of seeing balls land and stick on the postage stamp...the only thing missing so far today is seeing Bob Hope driving around in his golf cart.

[RJ_Daley]

Marc Haring, good on ya for bringing a bit of fact and even photo evidence to this muddled conversation.

[JakaB]

RJ,

Do you mean to tell me that that photo is better evidence than how the ball is rolling....look at the roll of the ball on the clips from the last Open at Troon.   ...tell me the first time you see a poorly executed shot roll somewhere interesting....or a good shot get a bad break...it's all fair just how the pros like it.

[RJ_Daley]

John,  the rough is probably sparse because they learned their lesson after Carnoustie, where a bit of fert was thrown on the rough and rain beefed it up to something that was not typically B.O. linksland rough.  It is supposed to be inconsistent.  Yes, I remember seeing Watson and others get sparse lies in areas that were knee high and thick in other places.  

What toon-a-mint are you watching this week, Barney?  I'm seeing plenty of bounding balls rolling away from greens into chipping-putting swales and into deep and steep walled bunkers.  That greenskeeper has provided an ideal preparation for this B.O. IMHO.  And, Mr Haring seems to have the best position and depth of knowledge from which to tell us about it.

[TEPaul]

"Is anybody else sick of seeing balls land and stick on the postage stamp..."

Right, Barney--we all want to see all the balls that land on the Postage Stamp green just bound right over it!  

[Mark_Guiniven]

Marc,
Greg Turner said the greens are Poa annua. Is that not right?

[Brian Phillips]

Mark,

Most British links courses are full of poa annua with Browntop Bent and Fescue.  How much of each depends from year to year.

Brian

[Marc Haring]

Mark.

Nope, they are not poa annua greens. At least not predominantly. I had a good look and I’d estimate they were at least 70% bent grass and no more than 30% poa with somer fescue in there. The bent grass would have been natural colonial bent (agrostis tenuis) and it looked very resilient. That is why they lost control of the greens at SHGC, they were all poa which rapidly loses moisture and wilts in warm, dry windy conditions. This has the effect of offering no resistance to the roll of the ball, hence the ludicrous putting speeds of that fateful day. On a bent grass green, especially a natural one, the strength of the leaf is maintained and resistance to ball roll remains the same. That is why the greens are similar pace at the end of the day as at the start. It may turn a little brown but if it does, unlike poa, you don’t have to call it dead grass.

Course conditioning at Troon is spot on and due recognition should be extended to the course manager and his team.  

[Brian Phillips]

Marc,

When you went up there did you speak to the Super?  And if you did, how much of a time span do they work towards the set up of The Open?

Is it 6 months...does it start the year before?  I know that redoing of bunkers start the year before but I am asking more about the greens.  Does the team have to change the normal maintenance routines or is this pretty much how Joe Bloggs can play throughout the year?

Brian