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Matt_Ward

Firm, fast and ready to go !
« on: June 16, 2004, 08:22:06 PM »
After having witnessed the weather conditions leading into the '86 and '95 events at Shinnecock this year's version is indeed much different.

In my personal observations thus far the fairways at Shinnecock are especially firm and fast and the course is looking awesome as the fairways are turning that pale green / light brown color and players will have to gauge correctly all aspects of flight and roll.

In the previous two Opens the course played slow because of wet conditions but that's not the case this time.

Players have gained tremendous distance when placing drives correctly in the fairways -- some hit drives on #9 that left them no more than 110 yards from the hole. On #10 there were a few that came within 75 yards of the green. The player who correctly picks his spot to be aggressive can be rewarded with very short shots into a number of holes.

The key will always be the wind. If it should blow -- forecasts are saying only roughly 5-10 mph tomorrow before some strong t-storms may wander through. Even with little wind the course is playing as fast as I have ever seen it and the player with consumate shot control and a solid putting stroke will have the upperhand.

Going into this Open it may be as wide an "Open" as any I can recall and credit that to a superb venue and the luck of having warm and dry weather thus far.

 

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2004, 08:41:24 PM »
Matt,

It is hard to see it here, but they were watering the 13th green at noon today.


Matt_Ward

Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2004, 08:48:18 PM »
Mike:

Let's be a bit more clearer partner -- they simply sprayed some H2O -- it wasn't like they were putting out the Chicago fire! ;D

Jason Mandel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2004, 08:55:12 PM »
Thanks for the report guys, I have been watching the golf channel non-stop and the course does look great.

Has anyone out there been taking the LIRR from NYC to get there?  I am assuming that is the best way to go from the city?  I am going on Saturday with my dad and brother, but was thinking of taking the train out tommorow morning as well, has anyone noticed people selling tickets outside the gate, I don't have one but can't imagine it can be too bad tommorow?

Thanks a bunch

Jason
You learn more about a man on a golf course than anywhere else

contact info: jasonymandel@gmail.com

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2004, 08:56:29 PM »
On #10 there were a few that came within 75 yards of the green. The player who correctly picks his spot to be aggressive can be rewarded with very short shots into a number of holes.

 

Matt,

I was really just confirming that the course is right on the "edge" and they are probably being careful by putting a little water on. It really is a spectacular place, and today refreshed my memory how great that back 9 is.

On number 10, I think this has to be the stuff that GCA loves. Take an iron off the tee, keep it on top of the hill so that you have a "level" shot, probably an 8 iron into the green, or take wood, put it down in the Valley (were you see the green protective covering today) and have a tough blindish wedge up to the green. Pesonally I would take the iron.

Looking back up the 10th fairway from the green:
« Last Edit: June 16, 2004, 08:57:41 PM by Mike Sweeney »

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2004, 09:02:36 PM »
Thanks for the report guys, I have been watching the golf channel non-stop and the course does look great.

Has anyone out there been taking the LIRR from NYC to get there?  I am assuming that is the best way to go from the city?  I am going on Saturday with my dad and brother, but was thinking of taking the train out tommorow morning as well, has anyone noticed people selling tickets outside the gate, I don't have one but can't imagine it can be too bad tommorow?

Thanks a bunch

Jason

Jason,

I think Mayday said it was 5 hours from Philly today by train. I drove for a bunch of reasons from Manhattan and parked near Southampton GC on 27. As I have said before the traffic at Shinnecock is very well done, and it is probably the lighest Hamptons traffic of the summer, however the USGA has no control over Philly guys traveling through Staten Island and Brooklyn. ;)
« Last Edit: June 16, 2004, 09:03:05 PM by Mike Sweeney »

Jason Mandel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2004, 09:26:30 PM »
Thanks for the report Mike.  I just checked the LIRR site and it looks to be a little over 2 hours.

I'm glad to hear you say that the traffic isn't as bad as the guys on ESPN and the golf channel are saying, from the sound of it, they are making it seem like the players can't even get to the course!

Jason
« Last Edit: June 16, 2004, 09:35:47 PM by Jason Mandel »
You learn more about a man on a golf course than anywhere else

contact info: jasonymandel@gmail.com

Steve_Lemmon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2004, 10:18:11 AM »
Perhaps I have just not been paying attention, but when did courses start using protective cover in the fairways (for practice rounds) start?   I noticed it at Augusta on the tee boxes this year for the first time this year.  I also watched a number of pros stumble over the stuff.   What will happen the first time a superstar tears a ligament because he tripped over the seam stepping backwards on the tee box?

Matt_Ward

Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2004, 10:27:17 AM »
Jason:

Bag the train -- in most cases they are stopping at every town along the way from NYC as if it was a political tour.

LIRR should have provided a nonstop or one that only has one or two stops on the Island before getting to Shinnecock.

Given how long this has been planned for you would have hoped that someone would have made such a trek even more useful and beneficial.

If you travel by car the trip is quite easy and the way they have provided for access, both to and from, has been quite smooth thus far.

How do I know -- I've been commuting from Jersey -- 100 miles away. ;D

Matt_Ward

Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2004, 12:00:49 PM »
Shivas:

Take a long and deep chill my friend.

The event is young and the pressure of the Open is only at its infancy right now.

Let's not forget that Oakland Hills and Cherry Hills have the great honor in having Andy North adorn their involvement with the Open!

Matt_Ward

Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2004, 12:16:15 PM »
Shivas:

Love the spin partner -- you should apply for a spin job with the Bush White House now that we know Saddam didn't have any links with Osama! Your wasting your talents here on GCA! ;D

Shivas -- your support for Olympic Fields is noted but it doesn't escape the fact that the tourney there was a major league dud. The course did a fine job but there was no magic in the air. Maybe we should have another Open at Medinah -- geeze, what version would they be playing now? ;D ;D

Once again -- the folks outside the greater Northeast and specifically the NY metro region -- is that you almighty Shivas please say it ain't so -- have to demonstrate their bug up their proverbial arse because they can't stand all the fawning over Shinnecock and the other great venues from the region.

Guys -- it's time to get over it!

Let's just see what happens and we can go from there.

Matt_Ward

Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2004, 12:37:43 PM »
Shivas:

It's more than elite media thumbing their nose at last year's event. Let me just say there's no doubt Chicago sports lovers are great fans -- and love there golf!

Ask the wide assemblage of golf media and the overall feeling was that Olympia Fields / North is a fine test of golf. However, it completely paled to the legitimate buzz that Bethpage Black created the year before. Not even close Shivas. Nothing wrong with the silver medal -- it's just not gold though.

Hate to say this partner but you and a good number of others envy the buzz that the Northeast and NY metro areas courses get. It rattles your cage that people don't like the kid brother (Chicago) as much as they do big brother (New York). I'll be the first to admit that bias in the media does exist -- but the quality of the venues more than justifies the comments from those in the know on the subject at hand.

Matt_Ward

Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2004, 04:35:43 PM »
Shivas:

The buzz on the 2002 Open extended far beyond the importance of publicly owned courses hosting the Open.

The talk and hype Bethpage generated had many different story lines. All of the were quite compelling and long lasting beyond the actual event itself.

It was the pedigree of what the Black represented as a course that was the top story. The Black was thought by many to be the figment of someone's imagination and you had people -- here on GCA and elsewhere -- who thought that because of the flattish greens that double digit under par would win. Hello -- guess again!

The Black can arguably make a strong case as being one of the top 25 courses in America IMHO. In my mind I would have among my top courses in America.

The championship also ratified the Black with a superb coronation of the world's best player in Tiger Woods.

Shivas -- time to go back to the lovable and architecturally vacant course called Medinah. Let me know when they expect to do facelift #X so we can see what other "version" they hope to march out. With Medinah and all its reinvetions it sounds like the detergent commercials with all their BS about "new and improved." That's Medinah alright -- it's new but laughably not improved. ;D


ChipRoyce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2004, 10:42:44 AM »
When I visited NGLA and Shinnecock back last November, everything at Shinnecock was green and lush (fairways, rough and greens).

In watching last nights tape delay, was intrigued to see the course less green and in certain spots, even brown (esp. 18th fairway).

Question: Did the course suffer and kind of damage / drought? Or, have the Gods at the USGA finally come to the realization that every course must not be green, wet and over fertilized?

Thanks!
Chip

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2004, 11:00:08 AM »
I think the greens look quicker this morning than yesterday. I wish I was there but the tube is not a bad alternative.

Matt_Ward

Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2004, 11:13:15 AM »
ChipRoyce:

Shinnecock is playing as fast as the powers-that-be can provide. Last night's rain did slow things down a tad but the fairways have that faded green / light brown color in a number of spots and when you add the humps and hillocks on the fairways it makes for top notch execution in order to avoid any of the pitfalls that are there.

The only missing issue thus far is the wind -- right now as I write this in the media center there is barely a flicker. Forecasts call for NW winds with 10-15 mph! Now that would be something for the boys to handle.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2004, 11:32:49 AM »
For my money, Shinnecock is the greenest-looking U.S. Open course I can recall seeing in recent years. I like the way it's playing, but it's kind of jarring to turn on the coverage of the Open and see green fairways, instead of the usual brownish tinge. It looks more like The Memorial than The Open.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

A_Clay_Man

Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2004, 11:37:12 AM »
Steve Lemmon- That netting has been used on teeing grounds at Pebble. It makes sense that MM would use it in collection areas in fairways too. What is rather amazing to witness (even the pros), are people who actually can't figure-out why that stuff is there.  I have even seen several people try to move it, so they could play from that spot. I must say, it takes all of one's discipline, not to unload on any moron who is so unaware as to not realize that that is the manitenance g-d's way of saying "stay off!", Same would be true of anyone close enough to trip on the stuff.

As for the courses differences, from yesterday and today. While subtle, they are not small. The greens yesterday exemplified a couple of things; One, the nature of having a poa/bent mix. Possibly combined with some of the maintenance tricks Don Mahaffey illustrated. The better players seemed to come-up short on a lot of well struck putts. I think the patina mis-lead them, as to thier speed, and today they seem to be able to stroke it just that tad bit firmer to make them.

I don't ever recall seeing a usga course set-up, exemplifying the core principles better than this year's at SHGC. From the textures and colors, to the line of charm's visual nastiness, and, the bounce of the ball. The entirty of the package has made me a believer in SHGC.

Steve_Lemmon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2004, 02:02:21 PM »
Adam:  thanks for the explanation.  

A_Clay_Man

Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2004, 02:23:21 PM »
Does Brad Klein have it easier than the other 999 journalists?

http://www.golfweek.com/articles/2004/pro/majors/men/usopen/39222.asp

With reporters looking for anything to call a story, a story. With all the minutae inherent in our geekdom, is it easier on him then those less affiliated with all of it?

 ;D

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2004, 07:43:22 PM »
Rick Shefchik,

It's difficult to get rid of the FOG and the moisture that comes with it.

FOG and moist air are not uncommon in that area.

Mother Nature tends to reign supreme.

TEPaul

Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2004, 09:29:49 AM »
"Forecasts call for NW winds with 10-15 mph!"

Matt Ward:

God, if only that would happen on the weekend--maybe even up to about 20-25mph. If that happened all day Saturday and Sunday the pros and the world would see another Shinnecock altogether--and it would be glorious. If one of those pros shot a 66 in a 20mph North to North East wind on Sunday and won the Open because of it they should give the guy an old fashioned ticker tape parade down Broadway---even if he did come from Fiji or Japan!    ;)

Matt_Ward

Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2004, 08:07:46 PM »
The forecast for Sunday will be temps in the low 70's with wind being roughly about the same as Saturday -- out of the Northwest about 15-20 mph.

What moisture there is in the morning will be looooooooooooooooooong gone by time the leaders and anyone within 5-7 shots of the lead tees off.

Only the finest will survive.

Matt_Ward

Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2004, 11:29:52 AM »
Shivas:

If there are faults it was with the nature of how the course was prepared for the final 36 holes blame that on the USGA --not on Shinnecock Hills as a course.

I know what I saw for the first 36 holes and how well the course was prepared -- the weekend was clearly a situation where the powers-that-be simply shut off the water and the grass that had been plentiful on the greens was allowed to dry out through the ever present NW wind and sunshine.

Shivas -- when you say he hit it like crap I don't know how you can say that. He played the course in a strategic manner knowing full well what was and what was not possible. I'm not suggesting his ball striking was Hogan-like (Oakland Hills) or David Graham (Merion) but he kept his composure when all other folded like an envelope. In my mind -- that a powerful statement for a now two-time US Open champion.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Firm, fast and ready to go !
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2004, 12:01:36 PM »
It's funny the lengths people will go to to rationalize a ridiculous outcome.  Before the tournament, all of the SH proponents would have told you that SH would identify the best ball striker FOR SURE.  Well, Reteif hit it like crap except for about 4 shots yesterday, but he made about 250 feet of putts, so he won despite hitting it like crap.  How do we rationalize that?

I, for one, am not trying to rationalize anything. But it seems to me:

You can't legislate (or design, or meld-maintain, or anything!) against a guy who's going to make all of his putts.

The best ball-striker, from what I saw, finished 2nd.

The second-best ball-striker, from what I saw, finished 3rd.

Goosen might have been the third-best ball-striker, during the week, or maybe the fourth or 10th-best -- but he was clearly the best putter.

You're not biased against great putters, are you, Shivas?
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

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