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Dan Kelly

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The aerial game
« on: February 19, 2003, 10:17:38 AM »
I put this question-to-the-architects on JakaB's Myrtle Beach thread -- and no one has addressed it ... possibly because it's a foolish question; possibly because it got lost there; possibly because a truthful answer would be ... embarrassing?

Well, it won't get lost here -- even if it still doesn't get answered!

Here it is:

How many holes nowadays are being designed for the express purpose of (a) being photographed from the air, and subsequently (b) being depicted in advertising?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Slag Bandoon

Re: The aerial game
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2003, 10:52:30 AM »
What an odd concept.  I can't imagine anybody would design merely for an aerial photograph for marketing.  As interesting as some are, they are more detaching rather than involving (as opposed to ground player perspectives).

Has this been done somewhere?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The aerial game
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2003, 10:53:57 AM »
Dan,

You mean the "Signature Hole(s)"?  ::)

I love the courses where they say they don't have just one Signature Hole--all 18 are SIGNATURE HOLES!!  :(

All the Best,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The aerial game
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2003, 10:58:16 AM »
Dan,

I have never designed with an aerial photo in mind.  In fact, if one of my associates tried the tenth hole, I would politely tell him do some cross sections to prove the sand in front of the green wasn't blind to the golfer.  My mentors drilled me in that philosophy, saying "NO one ever looks at it from an airplane."

If the bunker pattern looks good on the ground, it will most likely look good from the aerial shot.

Having said all that, the putting green at Cowboys Golf Club is Star shaped, as one runway does approach right over the golf course.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The aerial game
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2003, 11:19:27 AM »
Nobody looks at golf courses from airplanes?

Well, of course they do!

Most notably: Commercial golf-course photographers look at golf courses from airplanes. Look at that Myrtle Beach thread!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The aerial game
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2003, 11:21:42 AM »
Dick Nugent told me that before the aerial yardage books and photos were common.

My point still stands - I don't design with the aerial shot in mind, nor could I, unless the client was willing to rent a helicopter for each site visit to test my theories.

The real test is how it looks to the golfer on the ground. If you need an aerial view to understand a hole, its probably a bad hole.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: The aerial game
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2003, 11:22:51 AM »
I don't believe architects are consciously designing golf courses to be photographed from the air, but it seems to me they do effort to produce attractive plans on paper. No doubt there are a number of good reasons to do so. One of which is an attractive plan on paper might also be an attractive golf courses at ground level, but not necessarily. But the result of those attractive plans are golf courses that usually look good from the air.

I recall Kemper Lakes looking good from the air, most of the desert courses look good from the air, and so do many Florida courses; the Old course is not too exciting.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The aerial game
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2003, 11:26:29 AM »
Jeff --

Thanks. Good.

Now: Do you think OTHER (lesser!) architects ever design with the aerial-advertising angle in mind?

Dan
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The aerial game
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2003, 11:35:30 AM »
Tom,

Most people assume a well drawn, attractive plan, is also a well designed plan.  Rule one at landscape architecture school is always to baffle em with graphics.  Didn't OSU teach that?

One of the true learning tasks of any young or new landscape architect, including golf designers, is to learn to think in three dimensions, not just plan view.  Here, 3D images from computers should help immensely before going out on site.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: The aerial game
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2003, 11:50:24 AM »
Jeff
My strong suit was 3-D models, I probably should have been studying Arch instead of LArch, plus I hated studying trees and shrubs, not a good attitiude in that field.  Middle of the road as far as my drawing abilities were concerned, my creations probably would have looked like crap from a copter.

Speaking of designing to be viewed from the air, wouldn't Desmond Muirhead's more excentric designs fall under that catagory?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The aerial game
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2003, 12:16:00 PM »
I worked at a Dye course in NC. After I was there 6 months or so, some of the "coolness" of the holes wore off and started to feel like the holes were built to be photographed as a real estate sales tool. I doubt that was ever a sole reason for some design features, but I bet it was somewhere in the mindset. Money speaks, after all.....

Joe
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The aerial game
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2003, 02:11:47 PM »


No housing here...  Some times ya gotta have an aerial...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:02 PM by -1 »
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A_Clay_Man

Re: The aerial game
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2003, 02:57:48 PM »
In answer the question as I see it.. Certain features on certian courses have been designed for the extent purpose of seeing it from above.
I.E. The Dick Tracy shaped bunker at Cantigny. One cannot tell it from within but from above it takes the classic jaw and fidora shape.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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