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Dan_Callahan

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Winning Back the Frustrated Golfer
« on: April 20, 2004, 12:12:00 PM »
There's a very interesting series of articles in the golf section of yesterday's Wall Street Journal. The section attempts to explain why golf is losing as many players as it's gaining. One of the articles focuses on championship courses around the world that are untainted by civilization and housing developments (Waterville, Whistling Straits, Bandon Dunes, etc.). Another article talks about how many of the best courses in the U.S. are super-exclusive and will never be played by the majority of the public. Lots more info as well—definitely worth reading.

Evan Fleisher

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Re:Winning Back the Frustrated Golfer
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2004, 12:44:07 PM »
I just snag'd my business partner's copy of the WSJ...will try and read it tonight...thanks!
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Lou_Duran

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Re:Winning Back the Frustrated Golfer
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2004, 01:11:20 PM »
The whole WSJ section is worth reading.  For the most part, the writers seem dispassionate, reporting the information as they see it.  Golf is a big tent and the constituencies are diverse.  Is "Winning Back the Frustrated Golfer" really the issue, or will demographics and economics be the salvation of the game?  Personally, I vote for the latter.

RJ_Daley

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Re:Winning Back the Frustrated Golfer
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2004, 01:21:04 PM »
Quote
...will demographics and economics be the salvation of the game?

Lou, I assume you believe these factors are on the upswing? ;D ;) ::)  I gave up my subscription to WSJ, but it sounds like a reason to drop by the library to catch this report.  Unfortunately, the way I read the info in the rest of that paper, I can't say that I'm on board with those factors in the foreseeable future as being much of a salvation... :P :-\  But, that is just me... ;) ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

W.H. Cosgrove

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Winning Back the Frustrated Golfer
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2004, 01:29:06 PM »
Lou, just to put ina vote for the other side....and I haven't read the issue of the Journal.  My free subscription ran out yesterday.  

I think golf has gotten out of hand in two ways.

1) It is too expensive, both in time spent and actual expenses including equipment purchases and green fees.  I look to skiing as an example.  Without the less expensive start up costs of snow boarding skiing would be in serious trouble. Golf needs a lower cost entry level alternative to  get new players started.  The ski industry has not opened a new public ski area in the U.S. in 22 years. The first will open next winter in McCall idaho.  The develoment includes a RT Jones II golf course, mountain biking trails and is environmentally friendly.  Think if we hadn't had the demand to open a new golf course in 22 years.

2) The game is too darned tough for most new players.  Women and novices just get the beejesus pounded out of them out there.  Length has become a huge part of the problem.  As developers insist on 7000+ courses and testosterone leads us to longer tees, the game gets less fun.

I don't have any answers.  I just know we need to find ways of increasing rounds played.  Maybe extreme golf using mountain bikes as carts is a possibility!




Lou_Duran

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Re:Winning Back the Frustrated Golfer
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2004, 02:29:36 PM »
Dick and W.H.,

I do believe that these factors, the economy and demographics, as they relate to golf are on the upswing.  I haven't read the entire WSJ section, but I think I saw that some in the industry are not predicting very good conditions until 2008.  Personally, I am more optimistic.

In regards to the game being real hard for most people, I fully agree.  However, I don't agree that new technology is the answer nor the problem.  I fall into the camp which believes that the tech race has helped those people who need the least help, causing the gap between the really good players and Average Joe to widen.  However, if AJ believes that a 983K with a spined Fujikura ($350+) and ProV1x balls helps his game, I say all the more power to him.

In terms of the game being too costly, in inflation adjusted $$$ in most US markets, I don't think that this is the case any more so than it was in say, the early 90s.  One can buy a premium set of clubs, bag, and balls for under $300 on eBay today.  Near many population centers, there are a variety of courses in the $20 - $50 range.  We have a number of practice facilities with a monthly charge of $30 plus deeply discounted green fees at associated courses.

In terms of building difficult courses, there are also a number of young architects today who are building high quality courses on tight budgets which are also highly playable and not overly expensive to maintain.  In my own neck of the woods, Jeff Brauer and John Colligan have done some excellent work along these lines.

Finally, as noted in the WSJ, us baby boomers will be retiring in force soon.  Contrary to popular belief largely reinforced by the media and special-interest activists, we are living much longer, and for the most part, are healthier and more active.  Golf, unlike tennis, is something that we can do relatively well into our 70s.  And with WalMart and a bunch of cost-sensitive golf courses to employ us partime to supplement our "generous" compulsive govt./social security retirement, we may not be playing Pebble Beach, but perhaps we can settle for Wild Horse, Rustic Canyon, or TangleRidge.    
« Last Edit: April 20, 2004, 02:34:08 PM by Lou_Duran »

Dan_Callahan

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Re:Winning Back the Frustrated Golfer
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2004, 02:32:34 PM »
The ski industry has not opened a new public ski area in the U.S. in 22 years. The first will open next winter in McCall idaho.  


Not to nitpick, but Silverton Mountain in Colorado opened in 2002. To continue the skiing/golf comparison, Silverton is in some ways the Pacific Dunes of the sport. It is a throwback, with barebones facilities and an "expert only" rating. There is a limitation on the number of tickets sold per day, and the focus is strictly on the skiing, rather than on amenities. It obviously doesn't appeal to everyone, but for those think ski resorts have brought too much city to the wilderness, it is a breath of fresh air.

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Winning Back the Frustrated Golfer
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2004, 02:32:58 PM »
I thought the article in the WSJ was very poorly written. It appeared to me that they were doing filler articles in order to sell classified advertising.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

W.H. Cosgrove

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Winning Back the Frustrated Golfer
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2004, 06:51:45 PM »
Dan,
Thanks for the heads up on Silverton.  I was under the impression that it was one of the "private" facilities like the Yellowstone Club.

Your comparison of the bare bones, throwback is an interesting one.  There is another ski area in Idaho/Montana? that sounds similar.  I can't think of the name but they have a great web page, irreverant and gnarly so to speak.  I'll send it along when I get hold of the guy who shared it with me.

Lou,  The baby boomers will at somepoint take up new low impact pastimes.  Golf seems to be a natural.  Now all we have to do is convince people to buy those $300 starter sets! And for more starter golf courses to be built!

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Winning Back the Frustrated Golfer
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2004, 12:29:37 AM »
It sure looks to me like in certain areas of the country, the green fees are getting too expensive for a lot of people.  If you are a better player who has played for years and has a passion for the game, as is true for most of us reading this, then dropping $100 to $150 for a day's golf seems quite a bit more reasonable than it would for someone of equal financial means who just started a few years ago, has played maybe 15 rounds in his life, and has yet to break 110.

I think the price of playing in a lot of more expensive areas keeps people from really getting into the game.  After all, I'd love to collect Ferraris, but the price keeps me out of that game until my income until I add another digit to my yearly income 8)
My hovercraft is full of eels.

tonyt

Re:Winning Back the Frustrated Golfer
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2004, 06:44:53 PM »
These days, almost all courses are 6500-7500 yards long from the tips (you may not play the tips, but you usually still have to walk further than on a shorter course).

When a round of golf is complete, people are very tired and most of their day has vanished. Playing a 5600-6000 yard course would leave people feeling less taxed, refreshed enough to feel sprightly and invigorated rather than relieved to sit down, and with enough time to do more for the day. After a game of golf, everyone is pretty quiet until their first couple of drinks, and the couch feels good when they get home.

ian

Re:Winning Back the Frustrated Golfer
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2004, 07:23:54 PM »
The biggest hinderence is cost and time.

Cost:

Half my hockey team quit playing this year because the price went up another $10. at the local public course. It was 10 too many. These guys played 30 rounds a year, and are now back to 5 or 6.

Time:

6 hour rounds with a one hour drive equals...........
OK times that by three times a week equals.....
........divorce

You can play an awful large amount of the great courses that are not private, so I don't buy the premise.

*Please note that I have not read the article, if I'm missing the gist*

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