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Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
St Enodoc - a bit of a letdown
« on: May 14, 2009, 05:12:29 AM »
I've spent most of the 48 hours since I walked off the 18th green at St Enodoc thinking about the experience.

I certainly went there expecting a lot. It was a gorgeous day and I was off second group alone with plenty of time to explore the holes and take lots of pics.

While I thought the greens and green complexes on holes like 1, 4, 6, 8, 12, 13, 14, 17 and 18 were amazing, and probably the highlight for me (as well as the quality of the surfaces), there were elements of disappointment.

From the gushing praise I have read on here, I suspect I might be alone, or at least in a minority, but here goes anyway.

Too much blindness
I thought blindness was overused as a feature. Going back through the round, I can recall 12 blind or partially blind shots. 9 of the 13 drives and the second shot on the two par fives and the 10th. I thought it was simply too much, and felt reducing/removing the blindness of a few drives - 6 and 9 and possibly 7 - would enhance the experience.

The 6th has the amazing Himalaya bunker and that magic green complex, if you lower the dune in the left of the fairway you open up the safe landing area a bit more while also providing greater temptation for the big hitter to try to thread the needle down the left.

The 9th, I felt, was just overkill off the tee to have that as a blind tee shot after knee-trembling tee shots on the previous two par fours and immediately preceeding the 10th hole. I'd have liked to see the 9th play as more of a good breather hole like 14 at The Addington, with such great drama sitting either side of it.

I think judicious blindness like you see used at Deal, Zoute, Addington, NSW and Newcastle is thrilling and fun. In most instances on those holes that blindness is coupled with width, but to me, the use of blindness at St Enodoc bordered on self-indulgent.

Too narrow in parts
For the winds that crack across that site coupled with the blindness of so many shots, I thought holes like 2, 3 and 10 ranged from a bit too narrow to crazy.

You could extend the fairway left on the 3rd, let a drive behind the dune be found and create an amazing blind rescue shot. On the 2nd, which plays directly into the early morning sun, there were three lost balls in as many groups from drives that were no more than 20m off the centre of the fairway. For a hole that length, I think it's a bit much.

I measured the fairway at 250y from the tee on the 10th at eight yards wide with a creek left and a steep hill covered in lost ball rough to the right. And your reward for threading the ball into such a claustrophobic spot? 200y over water to a green you can't really see. I can hear the replies of "forget par and just play it", but as a safer three-shotter there is even more blindness, it's a comparitively boring 6i, 6i, wedge and it's still tighter than... a very tight thing!

If they maintained the near side of the hill on the left of the fairway as fairway, it would kick more drives down to the landing spot and give more players the decision of launching a long iron over water or laying up or out to the right of the green. I think that would improve the hole immensely and lead to more brave golf with more players trying a driver from the tee (granted I only watched three other groups play the hole, but only one of the 9 players in those groups hit the big dog).

Where that blindness and narrowness came together was where I found myself thinking some holes probably wouldn't be a lot of fun for many golfers.

The 1st, I think, is the perfect mix of blind shot excitement and width. On my lifetime composite course, it is hands down the opening hole I would include.

I also thought the 4th had a ridiculously small neck for a hole that is driveable, and bordered as it is by OOB on the right and deep bunkers and rough to the left. The tempation just was not there for me, especially compared with a hole like the 14th at Trevose, which I'd played the previous day.

So I still really enjoyed the experience and wouldn't hesitate to play there again were I to return to Padstow, but to me it wasn't what I have seen some people on here building it up to be. Having said that, I am but a GCA neophyte, so feel free to step forward and tell me what I am missing, or why my ideas for improving the above holes are utter shite ;D

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Enodoc - a bit of a letdown
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 05:32:51 AM »
Scott

I am not sure what you consider a blind drive, but I don't count anywhere near 9 of 13.  #s 3 & 7 are blind off the tee unless you hit it a VERY long way in which case the blindness doesn't matter a bit. 

I would also disagree very much concerning the 4th.  The neck is narrow BECAUSE its drivable.  This angle is what makes the hole great.  Remember, you don't have to fire it into the neck.  One can easily layup, take a wedge in, but with a bad angle of approach.  The 4th is one of the world's great short par 4s and an absolutely brilliant use of a piece of the property which is far from ideal - in truth its poor piece of land.  In short, its holes like this which can make architecture shine.

I can understand your criticism of #10, but again, the narrow part of the fairway is the aggressive play.  There is plenty of room short (in fact its essentially a big bowl green) for the guy who isn't worried about reaching this PAR 5 in two.  Yes, the hole is controversial, but its a great hole which requires thinking from first to last shot. 

Yes, the 3rd is a bit awkward off the tee.  Essentially, driver is taken out of your hands during summer months.  I like the hole, but I can understand why folks wouldn't. 

Ciao

Sean   
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Enodoc - a bit of a letdown
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 06:11:25 AM »
Sean,

I knew that was coming ;D

Do you believe the 4th is a better hole than the 14th at Trevose?

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Enodoc - a bit of a letdown
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2009, 06:35:14 AM »
Scott

I couldn't say which is better.  I know I prefer St Enodoc's 4th because I greatly admire the use of a piece of land which isn't terribly well suited to golf.  Braid must have been a genius to come up with that design concept. 

Ciao

New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Emil Weber

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Enodoc - a bit of a letdown
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2009, 07:51:01 AM »
Scott:
Ranking golf courses is subjective, so I won't critizise nobody for not liking St.Enodoc. It IS a very disputed (is that the right word) course with its quirk and blind shots. Personally, I think that St. Enodoc is one of the best courses that I've played.
"Too much blindness"
-what I realized was that the course has much more blind shots from the middle tees than from the back tees. I thought that is a bit weird because blind shots are more challenging and should be employed for the good player rather than the average one. 7 and 9 for example, are blind from the middle tees but not for the back tees.
"Too narrow in parts"
- St. Enodoc is certainly not the widest course on earth, but narrowness is employed on the right places. At the 10th for example, you have to resist the temptation of cracking your drive down the fairway and getting o the green in two. Maybe you noted the bank front right of the green which feeds the ball on the green. Yet I agree that the hilly part of the fairway to the right should be maintained as fairway.
For the 4th, it's the best short par4 I've played. Everything about it is so perfectly sized and done, a pure joy to play that hole, no matter if you hit the green or not.
However, it's a quirky course and I can understand if someone feels that it's too quirky. As I said, for me, St. Enodoc was probably the most fun I have had on a golf course.

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Enodoc - a bit of a letdown
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2009, 06:07:31 PM »
Scott,

Each to their own, but its a shame you felt a bit let down. Maybe thats somtimes the problem when a course gets talked up a lot. You can turn up expecting so much...

Its a couple of years since I played St Enodoc but I don't recall nearly as many blind shots as you mention from the tee, and I've always loved the thrill of a blind shot! I also don't remember it being that narrow, but then maybe thats the advantage of being a straight driver?  ;D And, as Sean and Emil have said, the 4th is a great short par 4, one of my favourites!

Its a shame the course is so far out of the way, otherwise I would certainly be prescribing another round there as soon as possible for you, to give it another chance?

Cheers, 

James

ps Scott, did you get to play Burnham & Berrow on your trip to the south west?
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Enodoc - a bit of a letdown
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2009, 06:24:13 PM »
It did occur to me that it might be something I came to embrace with time. Didn't play B&B. That is now close to being the top of my achievable desires, and my partner can while away the hours in Bath, too. A good diversion for her is half the way to arranging a weekend away!

I only played St E and Trevose, who have lost their greens completely, and walked good amounts of Perranporth and West Cornwall.

I loved the front nine at Trevose, but the back nine, 14 and 17 aside, didn't do a heap for me.
10 round split would probably go to St Enodoc 6-4 or 6.5 (back nine) to 3.5 (front nine).

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: St Enodoc - a bit of a letdown
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2009, 09:39:08 PM »
Scott:

I'm a bit surprised with your comments, but not totally -- that's a problem when a "hidden gem" which surprises the first few visitors becomes "mainstream" and widely praised in spite of its faults.  Everyplace from Ballyliffin to Yeamans Hall to Painswick could be included in the same category.

I was surprised by your description of #10.  The fairway used to be 7 yards wide in the neck back in 1982 when I first saw it, so they've widened it a smidgen :) but the rough on the hillside was very short then and you were only dealing with an awkward stance if you wanted to hit it up the bank.  It sounds from your description like the club is taking steps to counter a perception that the course is "short and easy" due to the par of 69.  This was the same rationale for extending #16, which I wasn't especially in favor of ... unfortunately, they may be trying to be something they are not, instead of embracing what they are.  They would not be the first club to make that mistake.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Enodoc - a bit of a letdown
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2009, 04:58:00 AM »
I got some pics, will try to get them up this weekend.

Alister Matheson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Enodoc - a bit of a letdown
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2009, 05:56:39 AM »
It did occur to me that it might be something I came to embrace with time. Didn't play B&B. That is now close to being the top of my achievable desires, and my partner can while away the hours in Bath, too. A good diversion for her is half the way to arranging a weekend away!

I only played St E and Trevose, who have lost their greens completely, and walked good amounts of Perranporth and West Cornwall.

I loved the front nine at Trevose, but the back nine, 14 and 17 aside, didn't do a heap for me.
10 round split would probably go to St Enodoc 6-4 or 6.5 (back nine) to 3.5 (front nine).
Hi Scott,
            Sorry to go a bit of topic but i am interested to know what has happend to the greens at Trevose i played there a few years ago and really enjoyed it the greens were fine aswell ?

Cheers
          Ally
Cruden Bay Links Maintenance Blog

http://crudenbaylinks.blogspot.com/

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Enodoc - a bit of a letdown
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2009, 06:17:19 AM »
Opinion is split, Ally, and I think the club is being a bit cagey, but a few members were saying it was simply a case of some fertisliser or weed killer being mixed up incorrectly. I'm not sure if that is the case, and I wouldn't want to perpectuate a false rumour on here, but it was about 95% or more of every green that was affected.

They are basically sand with a tuft of gras every 1.5cm or so, and have been for the past four to five months.

I have some pictures, which I will try to get up this weekend some time.

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