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Tommy_Naccarato

Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« on: February 27, 2003, 10:58:04 AM »


Got my copy last night and spent an hour outside of Daniel's apartment reading it! Just phenominal stuff and highly recommended.

It looks really complete right next to Daniel's Missing Links too!

From the opening chapter on Augusta, you will get to see MacKenzie drawings and quotes worthy of note.

Congrats to Daniel and much thanks for compiling such a complete entry of lost jewels.

http://clocktowerpress.com/displaybook/000098
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:02 PM by -1 »

JohnV

Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2003, 11:11:18 AM »
Tommy,

Is there anything in the new book about Alderwood up in Portland?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2003, 11:19:00 AM »
Note that one can get this for $31.50 with free shipping from amazon.com, and it's $36.00 with I guess shipping added from clocktower.  Now saving $4.50 to me isn't worth losing friends... does it matter to Mr. Wexler or to any regular here from whom one purchases this book?

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Big Mouth

Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2003, 11:44:15 AM »
Tom Huckaby
If does matter its a little late now...the cats out of the bag.

BM
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2003, 11:48:32 AM »
BM - ok, I'll admit to being totally naive here.  Does any regular here have connections to clocktower?  Does Mr. Wexler make more money if it's $36 instead of $31.50?  As I say, to me $4.50 isn't worth losing friends, and I'd hope that would be the same for all other regulars here.  I was just asking, as I say, BEFORE I do my own order.  If it doesn't matter, I figured anyone would want to get this a little cheaper...

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2003, 12:03:17 PM »
Tom:

Considering that ClockTower is some resultant survivor of Sleeping Bear, I'm guessing the answer to your own question is that you'll want to buy from them to ensure they stay in business and keep publishing golf books.

Didn't know Wexler had a sequel.  I need to get it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2003, 12:07:33 PM »
JC - duh... thanks.  I am sometimes very slow and yep, that didn't occur to me.

Clocktower it shall be!  Amazon hardly needs any more business anyway....

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2003, 12:08:35 PM »
John,
Alderwood was a tough one because of such little information on the original course before it had been drastically altered. The aerials found from the 50's didn't really show what could be described as vintage Vernon Macan. My thinking is that it was at one time pretty good considering the architect, the type of soil that it was on-pure sand; and where it was located--next to the Columbia River.

My guess is that this is something for Jeff Mingay to find out. He is our resident Macan specialist.



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2003, 12:10:49 PM »
Forgot to address that, and thanks John. I think a big plus has to be given to Clocktower for publishing all of the golf architecture related books.

Take a bow!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

wiseguy

Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2003, 02:30:12 PM »
Did Augusta make this edition?   ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

George Bahto

Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2003, 02:37:23 PM »
Dan - got my book today - thank you very much - it is as terrific as I was expecting it would be

I know you feel you have a load off your back right now so sit back and enjoy the kudos. It's well deserved!!!!

For Dan to dig out all that lost material boggles my mind. This is wonderful information for so many of us.

My hat is off to Clock Tower also - they've done very nicely with the books they've gotten out so far and we're hoping it will continue.

I was very pleased with their cooperation on The Evangelist of Golf and I'm sure Dan feels the same with his Lost Links.  We need to support them in their endeavors as best we can.

Great job Dan Wexler!!!!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2003, 06:42:18 PM »
Hey Wiseguy, Yes it did. Now go out and buy it!

FYI-Augusta is the first and most volumnous Lost Link in the book. MacKenzie's drawing of the green complexes is pretty mind-boggling, and when John McMillian gets it, I'm hoping that he does his computer imagery of the lost complexes to his already good looking masterpieces of the course. (If in fact you never saw John's version of the original pre-Maxwell #10 is pretty astounding.)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Craig_Rokke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2003, 07:10:43 PM »
The publisher should (??) be able to offer the book at a lower price than a secondary resaler, shouldn't they? $10 bucks is $10. I ordered mine from Amazon. Either way, Clocktower does just fine.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2003, 10:09:57 PM »
I just starting reading it and the chapter dealing with Augusta National is very interesting. The story of Palm Beach Winter Club was fascinating, I had never heard of this club, and it looked like a gem of a golf course. The book is loaded with one hell of a lot of information. Great job Daniel.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2003, 04:09:58 AM »
"I know you feel you have a load off your back right now so sit back and enjoy the kudos. It's well deserved!!!!"
George Bahto

Well, George, you've got a helluva load on your back. You owe all of us Seth Raynor's entire life story and the architectural minutae of every single golf course he ever built. And I want my copy today!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2003, 05:03:39 AM »
Can anyone actually explain what the books are actually about.  I thought they were about courses that were lost due to other development.

When Tommy talks about Augusta I start getting confused...

please explain...

BP
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2003, 06:59:19 AM »
Brian
In the first book Daniel profiled courses that were lost, courses that were designed over (for whatever reason)[Pinehurst #4 & Olympic-Ocean], 9-hole tracts that were lost [Maidstone] and significant holes that were lost[17th LACC].
 
'Lost Links' goes over the same areas with whole new batch of golf courses, there must be close to 100 new courses covered in this book. As you know ANGC has been designed over many times; a number of original holes have been lost.

I would recommend both books to you or anyone interested in the history of golf architecture.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Chris_Clouser

Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2003, 07:15:42 AM »
I just got my copy last night.  Granted I only looked through a couple of sections, but read the Augusta section and was very impressed.  The lost holes section at the end was an excellent addition.  I was very please with what I went through last night.  Excellent job DW!

So what is next up for ya?


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff_Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2003, 06:50:14 AM »
Just received my copy from Clocktower. Great job Daniel. I am stunned by the page you did in the back on Quaker Ridge "Country" Club. I knew about the old 2nd, but I had no idea about the old 13th. Wow. Great stuff.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2003, 07:11:44 AM »
Just ordered mine from Clocktower today and if it's half as good as the first one, I'll be pleased.

Best of luck Daniel and thanks!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2003, 07:43:17 AM »
Tommy Naccarato:

I grew up playing one of the courses in Daniel's book: Pelham Country Club in Pelham Manor, New York.

As a young kid I was aware the New England Thruway forced a redesign of the course and always wondered what the original design looked like. Back in the late 1960's, I used to ask people at the club about the original design and nobody seemed to know very much. Or maybe they just didn't care to share it with a ten year old!

I'm fascinated by the documentation Daniel has provided and will make a point of visiting the property sometime this year to have another look. Some of the original I can visualize, but to get it all would require being on site.

In any case, it will be a joy to look at the property in a new light. I hope others will be able to have similiar experiences at other courses in the book.

It was also very nice to hear Daniel's explanation of the orginal design for #10 at Augusta. It is interesting how the same fairway slope can work for two very different holes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Daniel Wexler

Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2003, 11:59:50 AM »
Jeff Lewis:

Quaker Ridge "Country" Club....  Well, I think we've just found our first factual error.  I have no idea how that slipped in, especially considering that I grew up five minutes from Quaker Ridge and played it at least a dozen times in my youth.  Perhaps it was the addition of those tennis courts.....

Interesting thing about Quaker Ridge: C&W credit Tillie's early work, then Trent and others beginning in 1962.  But the changes documented in Lost Links took place LONG before 1962.  I've never had the time to seriously pursue just who was responsible for these early alterations-- anybody around here know?

Tim Weiman:

I had hoped that Pelham would have a full page to itself (like Wykagyl, for example) so that map would have been more easily read.  Obviously it didn't work out that way, but I'm not complaining as Clock Tower -- in the throws of a major transitional period -- really did a splendid job overall.

Growing up in Westchester, I too heard stories of the old Pelham course, so it was neat to dig it up and be able to include it here.

DW
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

brad_miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2003, 01:54:51 PM »
just got my copy last night, the old 15th at SFGC sure looks like it was some hole.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2003, 04:07:38 PM »
Daniel Wexler:

Actually, the small map of Pelham does help, but I've only been there once in the last 30 years, so visualizing everything will certainly require another visit.

I'm especially interested in the former #2 and how it ties into the first hole. From your map, it appears that #1 might have started at its current tee location but finished further left and closer to the Boston Post Road. That would make room for the former #2 to play as a short par 4. I'd loved to go to that spot and get a look. Nobody ever mentioned such a thing when I was young, but then, again, talking to ten year olds about golf architecture wasn't something the members used to do.

But, they did teach you to move along!

Other subjects of interest include the short par 3, former #10. Today it plays as #18 and in the opposite direction. The current routing does not bring one back to the clubhouse as originally laid out.

Also, I would be fascinated to know exactly where the old #4 green was located and how #5 was laid out perpendicular to the current #4, #5, #6 and #7.

I can't leave the subject of Pelham without recalling an experience I had with Tom Doak at Lost Dunes. As you may know, Lost Dunes has a highway running through it. Tom mentioned that this made the routing a real challenge and that some people don't like the highway being there.

"Don't worry" I said to Tom, "I grew up on a golf course that has a highway running through it and once even hosted a major championship".

Tom thought for about two seconds and said "Pelham Country Club". I could only laugh at how quickly Tom got the right answer.

Finally, Pelham is hardly a "modern" course, but it does provide insight into how silly the golf technology arms race race really is.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Tim Weiman

Daniel_Wexler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daniel Wexler's Newest--"Lost Links"
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2003, 01:02:12 AM »
Tim:

I cannot recall off the top of my head the degree to which the first green has been moved, but I can tell you that the map was drawn off an aerial photo, so the green's geographic orientation to the property boundary is 100% accurate.  Without digging through files, I'm guessing (and sort of recalling) that your assessment is correct.

As disappointing as it is to consider all the lost holes, at least Pelham had good reason.  Unlike many other Golden Age layouts that have defaced themselves for all manner of silly reasons, there wasn't much they could do about the state running the Thruway right through their mid-section.  Why those outlying holes (numbers 4-6) were sacrificed, however, I have no idea.

DW
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »