Berkeley CC in El Cerrito,CA ( 1920, Hunter& Watson)

[Steve_ Shaffer]

A comprehensive course restoration, in keeping with the original Hunter and Watson design, was completed in 2011 by Forrest Richardson & Associates. The project received national recognition including the inaugural “Award for Excellence” from the prestigious The American Society of Golf Course Architects (ASGCA).

Our Club History | Berkeley Country Club, El Cerrito, CA




The Berkeley Country Club was one of the first private clubs to welcome members historically excluded from other clubs of the time, and it continues to be among the most ethnically and economically diverse in the Bay Area, actively encouraging minorities, women and the LGBTQ community to join.

The Berkeley Country Club marks a century of great golf, great people and great experiences

Any club that is challenging, yet playable, is my kind of club. Don't hear this too much.

[DFarron]

Never played Berkeley when I lived in the Bay but wished I had ….heard it was a fun course with lots of great views !

[Matt_Cohn]

Is there a question here? An idea? What is the point of this post?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I'm planning a west coast visit next summer. I liked what i saw and in particular this:The Berkeley Country Club was one of the first private clubs to welcome members historically excluded from other clubs of the time, and it continues to be among the most ethnically and economically diverse in the Bay Area,[/co


To Matt Cohn: Have you played there? What are your thoughts on this Course?

[PCCraig]

Would love to know how much Watson is left?

[Andy Johnson]

No Watson is left.


Lots of potential for good golf and the site has sublime views. Not a fan of the work that was done in the early 2000s.

[PCCraig]

No Watson is left.


Lots of potential for good golf and the site has sublime views. Not a fan of the work that was done in the early 2000s.

 


Bummer.


Thanks for the report, Andy.

[Mark_Fine]

Maybe Andy will comment on how much “Watson” was in it to begin with? 


Members of the ASGCA just played the course a few weeks ago during their annual meeting in San Francisco.  Didn’t hear a negative comment. A former Grounds Chairman at Olympic called the greens the best in the Bay Area when he played it and he was not talking about conditioning. 


The original Hunter routing remains mostly intact (a driving range was added many years ago which impacted several holes).  Original plans and aerials were found along with some early course photos and much of the restoration/renovation work as well as the look and style of the bunkers was based on these findings. 


Steve if you are going out, play it. 

[Ben Malach]

Mark:


If your looking for a group of less than critical minds. I think the ASGCA would probably qualify as part of the organizations code forbids. Publicly being critical of another members work.


This is one of the reasons, I haven't sought to join as I think the ability to critically discuss work is key to the growth of any profession


I concur with Andy that it's a fine golf course with good land that could be great with a more efficient routing and use of the views. But, doing that type of work in the bay area is a challenge.

[Ben Malach]

I concur with Andy that it's a fine golf course with good land that could be great with a more efficient routing and use of the views. But, doing that type of work in the bay area is a challenge.

[Mark_Fine]

Ben,
I think my fellow members at the ASGCA can be quite critical of each others designs. One of the exercises we did during this year’s meeting was “peer reviews” of each other’s hole designs.  An architect would talk about what they did and everyone would comment about what they might do differently and/or where improvements could be made.  So I don’t think anyone is adverse to providing criticism.  It is how you learn.  Secondly, you have to remember that the primary goal of what was done at Berkeley was “Restoration” of Hunter’s one and only original design.  Frankly, the routing is brilliant on a very tight and difficult property, especially with the members insistence on having the clubhouse at the top of the mountain.  Frankly even someone like Tom Doak who I think is one of the best out there at routings would be proud of what Hunter did.  Regardless, when you’re doing restoration you’re not trying to reroute the golf course.  Our primary intent was to bring back as much as we could of what was originally there based on finding Hunter’s original plans, old aerials and old photos.   It is definitely not “pure restoration” because a range had been added moving holes around and adding new ones, plus the course had been seriously altered over time.  Safety issues came into play as well as a whole community grew up around it. 


We were lucky to have Kye Goalby do the shaping.  He was fun to work with and did an outstanding job.  Keep in mind we did not have $20MM budget like many others these days (we had about 10% of that) but we were insistent on choosing a talented shaper we could trust.  It definitely paid off as Kye was in between projects with Doak at the time and was very excited to work with us on such an historically important golf course. 


Comments that are most important to me are ones like we received from a long time member who was at the club the day we played a few weeks ago and said, “I still can’t believe the transformation of this golf course from where it was 15 years ago to where it is today!”  He couldn’t be more thankful.   And we didn’t need to spend $20MM to do it 

[Matt_Cohn]

What was changed to add the driving range? Google Earth shows the same back nine routing in 1993 as today. The only change I see is adding the second hole and combining the old 6 and 7 into one.

[Mark_Fine]

Matt,

When the course first opened in 1920, the 10th hole played as the first and as a par-4.  The current 9th hole was the original 8th and the hole played across Cutting Blvd to where the practice tees are today.  A significant tree planting program took place under the club’s first professional Sam Whiting along with Vernon Peck, the club’s GM, from 1928-1933.  Bunkers disappeared in the 30’s after the stock market crash and other changes took place as well to save costs.  Robert Muir Graves was commissioned in 1967 to do remodeling work to the golf course and he made numerous modifications,....  Peter Thompson added the practice range in the 80's which eliminated the original par-3 ninth hole and created the par-3 second hole.  In addition, the tees on the tenth hole were moved to make room for the new range and the hole was lengthened into a par-5.  The former eighth hole now plays as the ninth. 

Be clear, Hunter was very engaged early on with the designing of the golf course.  He not only did the routing plan but he made models of all the greens.  Hunter contacted Watson after maps of the soils and contours of the property were made and Watson made some minor changes to Hunter's plans before the course was built. 

As stated, the work we did 15 or so years ago was what I would call a restoration/renovation.  The club knew there was only so much you can “restore” once things are changed extensively and/or significantly altered.  We used the information we found to guide our efforts and frankly the course was dramatically improved from what we first encountered on our initial visit to the site.  If you knew or had played the golf course prior, it was in need of serious attention and we are quite proud of what was accomplished on a budget that some find a way to spend on one or two holes!

I am still waiting to hear about all the Watson that was in the original course that was removed??  Talk is cheap if you don't do the research which we did

[Andy Johnson]

Mark,


I should have said there is no Watson, my mistake. Your work also did nothing to resemble anything Robert Hunter did in the area.


I live nearby, I have no urge to go back. Say whatever you want to say about what you did or didn't do, how little money you spent. At the end of the day, good architectural work inspires golfers to want to keep playing.


I'm going to stop there and be polite.

[Mark_Fine]

Andy,
You are certainly entitled to your opinion but you already said plenty that wasn’t polite, why stop now?  Maybe others and especially the members who tell us they love the golf course are just being polite as well?

We weren’t trying to “resemble” other work Hunter did in the area!  By the way, what work in the area is still Robert Hunter’s that we should have tried to resemble?  Please elaborate.  This was Hunter’s course not Mackenzie’s. I am sure you have photos and research backing up what Hunter original did there, not elsewhere but at Berkeley.  Also you still have not said what Watson was originally in the course that was eliminated by us or someone else and/or not brought back?  You won’t insult by elaborating.

If you think the golf course was great in the architectural condition it was before the work was done I guess I am not sure what course you were looking at.  The far majority of the membership didn’t agree with that and it is their golf course. 

I am not trying to pick a fight but if you disparage someone’s work especially a private members course, you should expect some response.  If there are any members here, maybe they will chime in. 

If you would have left things as is, the property would likely no longer exist as a golf course.  I am happy it is still there 15 or so years later.  Many were not sure back then if the course would survive so if we accomplished anything, we did that.  I am anxious to email Kye to tell him how much you loved his shaping!  I still remember his comment about the greens and the bunkers when he first got there.  It is not something I will share publicly as that definitely wouldn’t be polite.  Like us I think Kye was pretty proud of what he did.  I know Forrest is. 

[Forrest Richardson]

I don't think being polite is truly one of Andy's goals here. In fact, saying so is like the reply "let me be honest with you". A few years back Andy commented on Berkeley with some of the same remarks. I invited him to discuss Berkeley. Crickets.

Berkeley is a fun course. Regardless of "how much Hunter" is left — a debate never likely to be settled — it remains Hunter's only solo work and a lot of what was embodied in plans and originally built on the ground was studied, considered and brought back.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mark:


If your looking for a group of less than critical minds. I think the ASGCA would probably qualify as part of the organizations code forbids. Publicly being critical of another members work.


This is one of the reasons, I haven't sought to join as I think the ability to critically discuss work is key to the growth of any profession


I concur with Andy that it's a fine golf course with good land that could be great with a more efficient routing and better use of the views. But doing that type of work in the Bay Area is a challenge.

Ben,


I think you are confusing "less critical minds" with a general sense of etiquette. Most architects have critical minds, but they understand that badmouthing others is an easy way to look bad and lose jobs.  That seems to be understood by most industries, not just golf course architecture. It may be more important in such a small field as everyone seems to know everyone else in the biz.


A current feature of our recent meetings has been critical peer review.  Last month, five members stood up to discuss some of their more controversial designs and allowed all others to critique them, most at a deep, conceptual level. So, like you, we will be critical if it leads to a better understanding of the craft.  If you like to discuss architecture in person with those who truly understand it, I think you would enjoy ASGCA when you finish enough work to be a regular member or join as a Tartan participant now.  It certainly is a good place to learn more from others, and we are well known as one of the groups most willing to share information for the benefit of others.  And we are constantly striving to improve all aspects of the group, including gca specific education.


So, I can't entirely agree that not joining to learn more via "critical discussion" is really beneficial for your professional growth.

[Forrest Richardson]

One of my first meetings as an ASGCA member opened my eyes to just how much members enjoy opinions, yet also remain respectful. We needle each other, test each other and listen. Rarely grandstand, hardly ever diss one another, and are passionate about discussion. I think Ben would get a lot out of ASGCA — and have a lot to contribute to others.