Sebonack Golf Club

[Robert Giuffra]

I was fortunate enough to play Sebonack Golf Club several weeks ago.  Here are some of my thoughts about the course. The green complexes at Sebonack are difficult. Some of them are quite small and others are very large; the greens all have much undulation--more than Sebonack’s illustrious neighbors, Shinnecock and National. The bent greens are firm and fast, with no poa.  They could be the truest on the east end of Long Island.
On most holes the course has very nice green side bunkering, while still allowing low running shots. Two of the four par threes were magnificent. The 4th hole is a long par three with large bunkers protecting both sides of the massive square-shaped green complex. Putting on this massive green is an adventure of its own. The 8th hole has a very small green with lots of movement.  In my view, this hole is probably the worst hole on the course. Its green sits on the other end of a large pond with a forced carry of 165 yards from the middle tee; this hole can play much longer than that due to the ever changing wind. When I played, the carry was close to 205 yards. The green on this hole is far too undulating for the required shot on a normal day, and I do not like how this hole forces a player to hit one specific shot. The 12th hole is a short par three right near the ocean; the green on this visually stunning hole, but I think the green may be too small and elevated; it does not fit in with the natural feel of most of the course. The last par three on the course is the 17th; this hole is fantastic. The greens sit next to the crest of a small dune-like feature. This par three feels the most natural out of the bunch and its use of the natural sand as a hazard is great.
Sebonack also has many challenging par fours. The 2nd plays down into a valley and back uphill to a green tucked in the corner of a small dune. The green on this hole is small and has a lot of break. The 3rd hole plays uphill and has a large undulating green. This green is protected by a deep and massive bunker. The 5th is a downhill short par 4 with great fairway bunkering. It has a very difficult and small green. The 10th and 11th holes are great. The 10th is a tricky short par 4 with a difficult green, and the 11th is considered by many to be the best hole on the course. It is a blind downhill par 4 right next to the bay with a great green complex. The 14th is a long par 4 with a large hill top undulating green. This is another great hole.
The par 5s on this course are good. The 15th is my favorite out of the three. The 18th is also a great hole sitting right by the bay’s edge. The “National Golf Links” flag is the aiming point on this hole. I was told that Tom Doak and Jack Nicklaus wanted this hole to play as a long par four, but owner Michael Pascucci wanted a fun par 5 to finish off the course.  The green is large and very undulating.  The third shot is critical.
During my round, I enjoyed trying to figure out which design elements were Nicklaus and which were Doak.  For example, I assume the 5th and 10th holes are more Doak than Nicklaus, while the 8th and 18th holes may be more Nicklaus. 
By any measure, Sebonack is an excellent golf course.  It is challenging.  And it is fun.  I suspect that Sebonack sometimes doesn’t get the respect it deserves because it is next to Shinnecock and National, two of the greatest courses on the planet.  Only in Southampton could Sebonack be the third best course in town.  After my round, I wondered what Charles Blair Mcdonald would have done had he been able to route part of National on Sebonack’s land.  He might have been able to create the best course in the world.

[Peter Pallotta]

Always good to read your posts and insights, Robert -- you write very well (for any age) and have experiences at some exemplary courses indeed! I hope you keep playing them and writing about them here.

[Jeff Schley]

Robert you bring back memories of certainly an underrated course considering it's neighbors. I don't have the encyclopedic memory as it has been 3 years since I played there. Several holes stand out and coincidentally the first 2 and last 2.

• #1 is a very fair and welcome opening handshake with a generous drive and great view to a tight target going downhill.
• #2 is ball busting long par 4 I recall. I know it looked like a punchbowl almost on a dune but the sides were bunkers and trees. Also a false front that got me.
• #17 long par 3 which was intimidating off the tee with the view of many bunkers and not clear exactly the green. View of the water.
• #18 par 5, but was very exciting to close with a par 5 that you had a realistic birdie chance. I'm glad the owner put his foot down for a par 5. If you hit a safe drive and restrained layup you should have a birdie chance. Like the hollow to approach the green.

The surprising thing for me were the holes back in the wooded area, which I didn't expect knowing NGLA and Shinny don't have this aspect. Pops you in and out of this varied terrain and although I don't know how many trees were cleared (if any) for the links portion I appreciated the variety. It gets criticism as a overpriced private club, but take it and put it in Ireland and it would shine even more so I think if you separate the cost, clubhouse, cottages  from the experience. Wasn't a terribly difficult walk either, sans a few holes if you missed in the wrong spot. I don't know if this is a compliment or surpise, but I thought of Kingsbarns tee to green similarity on some holes.

[Brad Steven]

Quite an excellent review.  I gather from the comments that you are a young man but one wouldn't know based on the thought you put into your assessment of Sebonack.  I hope you played well that day and keep the writings coming. 

[Tommy Williamsen]

I loved the par threes especially the short 12^th (136 yards from the tees I played) and 17, which is semi-blind shot (183 yards) and just a brute of a shot to get close to any pin. Just getting it on the green was test enough for me.

The par four second (414 yards) has great views of Peconic Bay. You cannot see the landing area and the green is sited behind a sand dune. It is one tough hole, especially so early in the round.

The par five ninth (532 yards) like eighteen (525 yards) closes out the front nine. It is the only par five on the front. There are three par fives on the back nine. The par fives are gettable. Fifteen, however, was a bit long for me at 589 yards.

I played the course in the rain, so the ball didn’t roll very far. I’d love to play it when the ground was a bit firmer.

[Tom_Doak]

Robert:


Thanks for your review.  By chance, I’m out at Sebonack today, for the first time in a while.


I have never identified much about which holes were Jack’s idea or mine, partly out of respect but also because it’s fun to watch people guess wrong.  As an example, the two holes you identified as likely mine - the 5th and 10th - are two where Jack had a lot of input!  But in the end, we worked together with a lot of other people in building the course, and everyone played their part.

[Tim_Weiman]

I was fortunate enough to play Sebonack Golf Club several weeks ago.  Here are some of my thoughts about the course. The green complexes at Sebonack are difficult. Some of them are quite small and others are very large; the greens all have much undulation--more than Sebonack’s illustrious neighbors, Shinnecock and National. The bent greens are firm and fast, with no poa.  They could be the truest on the east end of Long Island.
On most holes the course has very nice green side bunkering, while still allowing low running shots. Two of the four par threes were magnificent. The 4th hole is a long par three with large bunkers protecting both sides of the massive square-shaped green complex. Putting on this massive green is an adventure of its own. The 8th hole has a very small green with lots of movement.  In my view, this hole is probably the worst hole on the course. Its green sits on the other end of a large pond with a forced carry of 165 yards from the middle tee; this hole can play much longer than that due to the ever changing wind. When I played, the carry was close to 205 yards. The green on this hole is far too undulating for the required shot on a normal day, and I do not like how this hole forces a player to hit one specific shot. The 12th hole is a short par three right near the ocean; the green on this visually stunning hole, but I think the green may be too small and elevated; it does not fit in with the natural feel of most of the course. The last par three on the course is the 17th; this hole is fantastic. The greens sit next to the crest of a small dune-like feature. This par three feels the most natural out of the bunch and its use of the natural sand as a hazard is great.
Sebonack also has many challenging par fours. The 2nd plays down into a valley and back uphill to a green tucked in the corner of a small dune. The green on this hole is small and has a lot of break. The 3rd hole plays uphill and has a large undulating green. This green is protected by a deep and massive bunker. The 5th is a downhill short par 4 with great fairway bunkering. It has a very difficult and small green. The 10th and 11th holes are great. The 10th is a tricky short par 4 with a difficult green, and the 11th is considered by many to be the best hole on the course. It is a blind downhill par 4 right next to the bay with a great green complex. The 14th is a long par 4 with a large hill top undulating green. This is another great hole.
The par 5s on this course are good. The 15th is my favorite out of the three. The 18th is also a great hole sitting right by the bay’s edge. The “National Golf Links” flag is the aiming point on this hole. I was told that Tom Doak and Jack Nicklaus wanted this hole to play as a long par four, but owner Michael Pascucci wanted a fun par 5 to finish off the course.  The green is large and very undulating.  The third shot is critical.
During my round, I enjoyed trying to figure out which design elements were Nicklaus and which were Doak.  For example, I assume the 5th and 10th holes are more Doak than Nicklaus, while the 8th and 18th holes may be more Nicklaus. 
By any measure, Sebonack is an excellent golf course.  It is challenging.  And it is fun.  I suspect that Sebonack sometimes doesn’t get the respect it deserves because it is next to Shinnecock and National, two of the greatest courses on the planet.  Only in Southampton could Sebonack be the third best course in town.  After my round, I wondered what Charles Blair Mcdonald would have done had he been able to route part of National on Sebonack’s land.  He might have been able to create the best course in the world.

Robert,


A bit surprised by your comment about CBM and the National. Seems like he had a pretty good piece of land to work with.


Are you thinking CBM would have wanted the Sebonack land along the water?

[Robert Giuffra]

I was fortunate enough to play Sebonack Golf Club several weeks ago.  Here are some of my thoughts about the course. The green complexes at Sebonack are difficult. Some of them are quite small and others are very large; the greens all have much undulation--more than Sebonack’s illustrious neighbors, Shinnecock and National. The bent greens are firm and fast, with no poa.  They could be the truest on the east end of Long Island.
On most holes the course has very nice green side bunkering, while still allowing low running shots. Two of the four par threes were magnificent. The 4th hole is a long par three with large bunkers protecting both sides of the massive square-shaped green complex. Putting on this massive green is an adventure of its own. The 8th hole has a very small green with lots of movement.  In my view, this hole is probably the worst hole on the course. Its green sits on the other end of a large pond with a forced carry of 165 yards from the middle tee; this hole can play much longer than that due to the ever changing wind. When I played, the carry was close to 205 yards. The green on this hole is far too undulating for the required shot on a normal day, and I do not like how this hole forces a player to hit one specific shot. The 12th hole is a short par three right near the ocean; the green on this visually stunning hole, but I think the green may be too small and elevated; it does not fit in with the natural feel of most of the course. The last par three on the course is the 17th; this hole is fantastic. The greens sit next to the crest of a small dune-like feature. This par three feels the most natural out of the bunch and its use of the natural sand as a hazard is great.
Sebonack also has many challenging par fours. The 2nd plays down into a valley and back uphill to a green tucked in the corner of a small dune. The green on this hole is small and has a lot of break. The 3rd hole plays uphill and has a large undulating green. This green is protected by a deep and massive bunker. The 5th is a downhill short par 4 with great fairway bunkering. It has a very difficult and small green. The 10th and 11th holes are great. The 10th is a tricky short par 4 with a difficult green, and the 11th is considered by many to be the best hole on the course. It is a blind downhill par 4 right next to the bay with a great green complex. The 14th is a long par 4 with a large hill top undulating green. This is another great hole.
The par 5s on this course are good. The 15th is my favorite out of the three. The 18th is also a great hole sitting right by the bay’s edge. The “National Golf Links” flag is the aiming point on this hole. I was told that Tom Doak and Jack Nicklaus wanted this hole to play as a long par four, but owner Michael Pascucci wanted a fun par 5 to finish off the course.  The green is large and very undulating.  The third shot is critical.
During my round, I enjoyed trying to figure out which design elements were Nicklaus and which were Doak.  For example, I assume the 5th and 10th holes are more Doak than Nicklaus, while the 8th and 18th holes may be more Nicklaus. 
By any measure, Sebonack is an excellent golf course.  It is challenging.  And it is fun.  I suspect that Sebonack sometimes doesn’t get the respect it deserves because it is next to Shinnecock and National, two of the greatest courses on the planet.  Only in Southampton could Sebonack be the third best course in town.  After my round, I wondered what Charles Blair Mcdonald would have done had he been able to route part of National on Sebonack’s land.  He might have been able to create the best course in the world.

Robert,


A bit surprised by your comment about CBM and the National. Seems like he had a pretty good piece of land to work with.


Are you thinking CBM would have wanted the Sebonack land along the water?

I would not be surprised if CBM wanted the land along the water where Sebonack now sits. Is the land that much better for links golf then National, probably not. But would CBM have loved a course with more great ocean views weaving in and out of dunes. I would think so.

[Robert Giuffra]

One reason why CBM likely could not have purchased the land on which Sebonack now sits was because this land was owned by Charles Sabin, who had a grand estate on it, with beautiful gardens and trees.  Many of the beautiful trees on Sebonack, which Doak and Nicklaus were smart to keep and incorporate into the course, date back to the Sabin estate.

[Tim_Weiman]

One reason why CBM likely could not have purchased the land on which Sebonack now sits was because this land was owned by Charles Sabin, who had a grand estate on it, with beautiful gardens and trees.  Many of the beautiful trees on Sebonack, which Doak and Nicklaus were smart to keep and incorporate into the course, date back to the Sabin estate.

Robert,


During the course of GolfClubAtlas.com’s history there have been some historians who have done some excellent work. I am not in their league.


But, I will go out on a limb and assert that our first inclination that CBM would have wanted the waterfront property that is now part of Sebonack is likely not true. I reached this conclusion by going to the one source I thought might help: CBM’s “Scotland’s Gift”.


Chapter X is titled “History of the National Golf Links of America”. Therein, on page 187 there is discussion of the land purchase. It states that CBM was offered 450 acres between Cold Spring Harbor and Bull’s Head Bay with a mile frontage on Peconic Bay.


Looking at a Google Map, I don’t see any way this doesn’t include the area that now includes the waterfront holes at Sebonack.


Further, on page 187 it states that CBM was given his choice of land and he selected only 210 acres of what is now NGLA. Moreover, it appears CBM was more interested in finding and purchasing land where he could build classic holes, e.g., an Alps, an Eden, a Redan, a Cape, etc., than he was interested in waterfront property.


Unless I don’t understand the book itself, “Scotland’s Gift” was written be CBM and thus the words describing the land purchase are his own words.


Take a look at page 187 and let me know if you have a different interpretation.

[Tom_Doak]

According to the club history of Sebonack, written by Brad Klein, Charles Sabin bought the Bayberry Land parcel in 1916 and threw a party to open his mansion in 1919.


Brad doesn’t say, but I am pretty sure Tim is right that was the rest of the 450 acres Macdonald had to choose from.


It’s possible CBM chose the land for National because of the sites for particular holes, but it also appealed because one end touched Shinnecock where a temporary clubhouse was made, and the other end was the site for today’s 18th green.  To use more of the bluff he wouldn’t have been as close to the LIRR.


It’s also possible he passed on Sebonack because it was too sandy, whereas National’s soils were more loamy as it moved inland.  Establishing grass on sand was not as easy in 1904 as in 2004, and indeed NGLA struggled with that its first few seasons.

[Tim_Weiman]

According to the club history of Sebonack, written by Brad Klein, Charles Sabin bought the Bayberry Land parcel in 1916 and threw a party to open his mansion in 1919.


Brad doesn’t say, but I am pretty sure Tim is right that was the rest of the 450 acres Macdonald had to choose from.


It’s possible CBM chose the land for National because of the sites for particular holes, but it also appealed because one end touched Shinnecock where a temporary clubhouse was made, and the other end was the site for today’s 18th green.  To use more of the bluff he wouldn’t have been as close to the LIRR.


It’s also possible he passed on Sebonack because it was too sandy, whereas National’s soils were more loamy as it moved inland.  Establishing grass on sand was not as easy in 1904 as in 2004, and indeed NGLA struggled with that its first few seasons.

Tom,


I am way out of my league but it appears there were also soil issues with the land CBM selected. He states that they had to bring in 10,000 loads of top soil.


As for the temporary club house site, CBM states that originally that is where he intended the permanent club house. A fire at this site subsequently led him to reconsider the permanent clubhouse location and it appears he liked the sense of isolation the permanent site offered.


Those points aside, based on his writing in Chapter X, locations for classic holes does appear to be a major motivator in land selection. CBM cites a friend from Prestwick claiming the site of NGLA’s Alps was better than the original. Ditto with a friend from North Berwick regarding the Redan.


CBM makes clear he was proud of the site of the 18th green, but makes no mention of the rest of the waterfront land.

[Kalen Braley]

I'm not sure if they planned it from the start, but who uses a pristine beach front area for a driving range! 

[Ronald Montesano]

How did they bring in 10K loads of top soil back then, mule?


We think of the massive trucks (I saw some of them this summer at Lido) and recall that they did not exist when NGLA was under construction. What an undertaking!

[Rob Marshall]

I'm not sure if they planned it from the start, but who uses a pristine beach front area for a driving range! 

The Ocean Course!

[John Kavanaugh]

How did they bring in 10K loads of top soil back then, mule?


We think of the massive trucks (I saw some of them this summer at Lido) and recall that they did not exist when NGLA was under construction. What an undertaking!

Try getting a permit to build a pyramid during a pandemic. Shit just got done back in the day.