Royal Liverpool

[Ally Mcintosh]

There is a new video I saw on Instagram of the completed 17th at Hoylake. I can't embed it but worth a look. The sand looks very artificial and those paths    It will be interesting to hear feedback on how it plays...


https://www.instagram.com/p/B8wVXJkFJcF/

I do hope that people realise that those paths are still to be turfed in that video / photo? Just in case... (I saw a comment referring to the sand paths on another thread)...

[Brian_Ewen]

https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/news/royal-liverpool-building-new-par-3-ahead-of-2022-open-192402

[David_Tepper]

https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2020/6/23/first-review-in-for-hoylakes-new-17th-and-prediction-of-its-next-open-rota-appearance

[Thomas Dai]

It'll be interesting to see how in both normal play mode and in Open Championship mode player (and spectator) walking routings and pinch-points will work out. Speed of play effects too. Also be interesting to see how things work out for non-elite players in relation to the next tee (and the gardens of the houses on the right) in a strong left to right wind.
atb

[Ben Stephens]

Re: the 17th - The photos and location make this a stunning looking hole however I question if you take the sandy waste and scenery away from the equation is it a good hole? I am not sure as the green is very oval looking, quite flattish and no locations where you really can tuck the pin in front of the bunker despite this being a short par 3. Postage Stamp is much more scary with its narrow and long green plus the 12th a Birkdale has a pin that can be tucked in back right. If you take the wind into account is it similar to the short 9th at Silloth? 

[Niall C]

Ben


The 9th at Silloth basically is a version of the Postage Stamp except the drop off to the right and the mound to the left isn't quite as severe, but if you miss you still end up scrambling about. (NB - Fernie was at Silloth but haven't yet found the evidence that the 9th is his handy work) With regards re 17th, nothing wrong with that on a short hole. I haven't seen how short this will play but it also looks like the green is set at a bit of an angle so line and length both come into play.


Niall

[Ben Stephens]

Ben


The 9th at Silloth basically is a version of the Postage Stamp except the drop off to the right and the mound to the left isn't quite as severe, but if you miss you still end up scrambling about. (NB - Fernie was at Silloth but haven't yet found the evidence that the 9th is his handy work) With regards re 17th, nothing wrong with that on a short hole. I haven't seen how short this will play but it also looks like the green is set at a bit of an angle so line and length both come into play.


Niall

Niall


Very slight angle to the left however it looks straight-ish - the 7th at Barnbougle is has a bit more of an angle and more difficult I would suspect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohz5rHq0Dl4


Cheers
Ben

[Brian Finn]

On the eve of the Open's first day of competition, the new 17th (and other recent changes) have been in play for 3+ years.  For those familiar with the course, what is your current view on the changes, both for everyday play and for the world's best?  I played Royal Liverpool in late '21, and came away a bit torn on the 17th.

[Thomas Dai]

On the eve of the Open's first day of competition, the new 17th (and other recent changes) have been in play for 3+ years.  For those familiar with the course, what is your current view on the changes, both for everyday play and for the world's best?  I played Royal Liverpool in late '21, and came away a bit torn on the 17th.

I will admit to wondering if the 17th hole will still be there in its current form when The Open next comes back to Hoylake.
Atb

[David_Tepper]

Some comments regarding the 17th hole:

https://golf.com/news/god-help-handicapper-caddie-rips-open-hole/?utm_campaign=forecast&utm_source=golf.com&utm_medium=email&utm_content=%7Bdate%28&utm_term=GOLFcom%20Top%20Stories%20Newsletter

[MCirba]

Completely OT but what's the course across the street from Royal Liverpool?  The aerial looks pretty intriguing, thanks.

[David Kelly]

Completely OT but what's the course across the street from Royal Liverpool?  The aerial looks pretty intriguing, thanks.

Hoylake Golf Club, a James Braid muni.

[MCirba]

Completely OT but what's the course across the street from Royal Liverpool?  The aerial looks pretty intriguing, thanks.

Hoylake Golf Club, a James Braid muni.

Thanks, David.   That would explain it.

[Bruce Katona]

I'm not sure who in this DG watches Rick Shiels Golf, but I do enjoy it.  Last night the podcast had Rick, his sidekick Guy Charnock & former DP Tour player James Robinson, who played in The Open a few years ago, out a Royal Liverpool where they could play The Open venue with grandstands up and the course and rough ready for Open play.


Rick has has PGA card and Guy is a decent amateur player (10 handicap or so). Rick was trying to break 75, Guy 80 & James 70.  By having the cameras follow them at ground level for 18 holes, you could see the course with its undulations, rough and bunkers.  Never having played an Open rota course, I found this camera work fabulous.


Outside of James, Rick and Guy hit many of the same shots (mediocre/poor) many of us would on a course of this caliber and difficulty, giving me an even better appreciation of how good touring professionals are.


The end result had James @ 70, Rick @80 & Guy @86. No one was scared of the new 17th, in fact they did well. 


I did get to see firsthand the famous internal OB - not sure I like it or not but it does add in a different element. 

[Brian Finn]

I watched the Rick Shiels video and enjoyed it. Even better was Iona Stephen playing with links manager, James Bledge, who is very insightful. Cookie Jar Golf also did a nice video. There is some great content on YouTube, if you can wade through some junk (and get the algorithm working in your favor over time).

[Tony_Muldoon]

Anecdotally I've been told several times that the members have been promised the front right bunker will be a lot shallower after The Open.


Good news, I knew the R&A would one day have to accept bifurcation.




It is also interesting that Slumbers is 'owning' the new hole. In the past the Club (and it's members) owned their course and the R&A borrowed it for a week. Today if you aspire to a senior competition at your club you give your autonomy practices and design over to the R&A. You'll get bills, changes and no guarantee of anything back.


Edit.
From TV all bunkers are being raked flat. A change from recent years?

[Thomas Dai]

Be cool to have the usual RLGC 1st play as the 1st during The Open but …. move the tee up and play it as say approx 330 yd straight-line over the corner of the OB. Remove some of the pavilions etc first though.
Be a great temptation. Go for it or lay-up. Go for it some days, lay-up for others. Options and temptation. Get into the players heads. Tempt their ego.
Atb

[Jeff Schley]

RL is maybe the flattest course I have played or at least one of them for sure. Very easy walk and the whispy fescue allows for finding your ball. Not much gorse, which is welcomed for this amateur. I really like the new 17, I played it without much wind and putted from off the green. Good hole IMO, never played the old one. Internal OB is historical and odd when you see it from above as it isn't needed for being off property. Welcoming atmosphere and clubhouse, hard to find many faults in RL.

[Pete_Pittock]

Anecdotally I've been told several times that the members have been promised the front right bunker will be a lot shallower after The Open.
Good news, I knew the R&A would one day have to accept bifurcation.
It is also interesting that Slumbers is 'owning' the new hole. In the past the Club (and it's members) owned their course and the R&A borrowed it for a week. Today if you aspire to a senior competition at your club you give your autonomy practices and design over to the R&A. You'll get bills, changes and no guarantee of anything back.

Edit.
From TV all bunkers are being raked flat. A change from recent years?

Raking the bottoms of the bunkers flat instead of concave apparently made many balls roll to the base of the revetted sod, leaving difficult shots in a plethora of directions. Don't think the players enjoyed their opportunities.

[Brian_Ewen]

So bunkers are not being raked flat for Round 2 then?

[Pete_Pittock]

So bunkers are not being raked flat for Round 2 then?

unknown

[Ally Mcintosh]

This 1935 routing was recently posted on this Twitter account - https://twitter.com/joemmcdonne11
atb

Not knowing the course well, I was taken with this aerial which looks really cool (in plan view anyway). Was this when the course was seen as its optimum? Dowie and Royal still in play, 12/14 already routed as the dogleg, some really intriguing bunkers and bunker placements? I’m assuming a renowned architect had just got his hands on the course prior to 1935?

[Thomas Dai]

This Firm & Fast Podcast with RLGC member and expert Joe McDonnell is well worth a listen. Shane is an excellent host and Joe really knows his stuff.
Listen here - https://firmandfastgolfpodcast.fireside.fm/27
atb

[Brian_Ewen]

unknown

That is what Sky reported this morning.

Bottled it after seeing players playing out backwards yesterday, I guess.

[Thomas Dai]

The powers that be have decreed that the sand level at the foot of the bunker faces be raked 1 revet higher for the Second Round of The Open.
atb