The Law of Diminishing Returns

[Mike Hendren]

Premise:  The more great architecture one experiences, the less one appreciates it.

I fear I am losing the thrill of being amazed.

Discuss.

Bogey

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mike,

I know many in the biz who continually look at and play courses. I am not sure you appreciate great design less, but the more you see, the higher your bar becomes.

[Peter Pallotta]

The spirit/act of appreciation has little to do with the object of that appreciation, but this is a reality that only becomes apparent over time. It is, instead, an inate capacity of the observer, not of the observed -- though as with any capacity it can be under-developed and/or mostly latent. To quote/paraphrase one of your favourite authors: What a man sees and hears has a lot to do with where he is standing, but it has even more to do with the kind of man he is.  Maybe your spirit of appreciation has simply found a more profound object to focus on; the capacity is still there, alive and well, but it has been re-directed by your will to serve broader ends. If so, it would be in the natural order of things, and a sign of continued and healthy growth.

Peter

[John Kavanaugh]

If I would have played Idle Hour as a rater I would have hated every second of it.  One of my friends even turned to me and said "I bet this is a place your rater buddies would love, why isn't it a top 100 course?"  You should have heard my answer.

[Tim Gavrich]

Mike--

Peter puts it eloquently (as always), but by way of slight expansion I would offer that there's seems a distinction between appreciating something and being amazed by it. Amazement strikes me as a sensation felt upon early experience with it, while appreciation happens after inquiry/investigation/reflection beget deeper understanding.

The first time I had a chicken cutlet grinder (that's Connecticut-speak for "sub") from Franklin Giant Grinder in Hartford, I was amazed. In the 15 to so times I've had it since, I havent been so much amazed as really, really appreciative.

[GLawson]

I think the appreciation/amazement is also enhanced by the journey.  For example, the travel for me to Tasmania for Barnbougle Dunes and Lost Farm heightened the anticipation and the emotion once I saw it.  It's a little harder to feel that for a course, even a great one, just around the corner.  Either way, my heart rate always goes up when seeing a great course for the first time.

[Jim Sherma]

If I would have played Idle Hour as a rater I would have hated every second of it.  One of my friends even turned to me and said "I bet this is a place your rater buddies would love, why isn't it a top 100 course?"  You should have heard my answer.

I would like to hear your answer. I don't get this statement. Why should playing "as a rater" versus playing as a regular round make any difference to your experience relative to the round? The fact that it does is likely one of the reasons that the whole rating milieu is so ridiculous.

[John Kavanaugh]

Jim,

I can't recall my answer which is the point.  I was just there to enjoy the day knowing that Idle Hour was the best damn course I could have taken my friends after a day at Keeneland.  I thought it was number 1 and nothing else was going to change my mind.  Now if I was playing as a rater I would have had a thousand other thoughts in my head.

I just found this on the GolfWeek site:


173. (153) Idle Hour CC

Lexington, Ky., 1924, Donald Ross, Private



174. (134) Lookout Mountain Golf Club

Lookout Mountain, Ga., 1926, Charles Banks, Seth Raynor, Private

It's really interesting considering I played Lookout Mountain with Bogey and read his thread on Idle Hour before I even decided to attempt to play there on my trip.  Can you imagine trying to enjoy a round knowing that one of my favorite courses in the world sits just below the course I am playing?  Instead of enjoying Idle Hour for the great experience it is I am looking for reasons its not as good as Lookout Mountain.  Or not as good as another favorite Beverly, which has a similar pedigree.  I could go on and on but simply put, perhaps Bogey has lost the thrill of being amazed because he knows if he is it will be at another courses expense.

[Thomas Dai]

Familarity breeds contempt and all that.

I find the same myself when playing the same course often and it's one of the reasons I now play with different sorts of clubs - sometimes a game played with modern equipment, sometimes a game played with half a set of clubs, sometimes a game played with persimmon and blades, sometimes a game played with hickory. I find that using equipment from different era's not only helps me to appreciate and understand architecture, construction, maintenance, playing skills, course management etc etc from different perspectives but is also a method of alleviating the familiarity breeds contempt scenario. Each to their own though.

atb

[Tom_Doak]

Premise:  The more great architecture one experiences, the less one appreciates it.

I fear I am losing the thrill of being amazed.

Discuss.

Bogey

Bogey:

Wasn't Glens Falls a thrill last fall?  It was for me, and I've experienced more than you.  It was even a nice dinner afterward.

I am not as thrilled as often as I'd like to be ... for example, today at Dorado Beach.  And I think there are many architects who never really intended to thrill us.  But there are lots of thrilling places, and there's no way that any of us will get to them all ... especially as people keep building more of them.

[Bill Brightly]

Learning to play the game of golf does not require any of us to understand or appreciate architcture. You neeed to learn to recognize difficult features, how to avoid trouble or deal with a wide variety of tough shots, but that does not mean you must truly appreciate good gca. I have a theory that you can be a truly great player by being "dumb," ignoring the architecture, and just focusing on hitting great shots.

A very small percentage of golfers veer off into the study of golf course architecture. Like a teenage boy who finally discovers girls, these golfers becomes amazed and perhaps even obsessed with this new discovery. You can date all kind of new and different women after that, but never match that initial feeling of wonderment. But Bogey, that doesn't mean you stop the search!

[Ian Andrew]

Mike,

I've travelled extensively for 25 years seeing courses.
I eventually took a break - a full year - of no golf travel.
Museums and cities with my wife.
Highly recommend a change that works for you...

It re-energized my excitement at travelling to see courses.
I'm back at it with multiple trips again.

The break helped a lot.

[Tom_Doak]

Mike,

I've travelled extensively for 25 years seeing courses.
I eventually took a break - a full year - of no golf travel.
Museums and cities with my wife.
Highly recommend a change that works for you...

It re-energized my excitement at travelling to see courses.
I'm back at it with multiple trips again.

The break helped a lot.

I'm looking forward to a break once Volume 5 is done.  A year might not be long enough, and my wife has a long list of her own 

[Ian Andrew]

Greatest experience I've had in last decade was the Grand Canyon - about 18 months back.
No contact, no cell phones, no internet, nothing for nearly three glorious weeks.

[Mark Pritchett]

I think the appreciation/amazement is also enhanced by the journey.  For example, the travel for me to Tasmania for Barnbougle Dunes and Lost Farm heightened the anticipation and the emotion once I saw it.  It's a little harder to feel that for a course, even a great one, just around the corner. 

I suppose it all depends on your corner. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Premise:  The more great architecture one experiences, the less one appreciates it.

I fear I am losing the thrill of being amazed.

Discuss.

Mike,

Are you saying that you tire quickly of gorgeous women with great personalities ?

[Rory Connaughton]

My experience is the opposite. The more great work I see the brighter the line becomes between great and very good BUT also the more inclined I am to see moments of greatness in otherwise average or even modest courses.

[Mike Hendren]

Premise:  The more great architecture one experiences, the less one appreciates it.

I fear I am losing the thrill of being amazed.

Discuss.

Mike,

Are you saying that you tire quickly of gorgeous women with great personalities ?

I wish I could answer that Pat, but Tuesday evening I celebrated being married to the most wonderful woman in the world for 31 years. 

Tom, I too was amazed last fall - not just by Glens Falls but by CC of Troy, Teugega and Yahnundasis.  The up-state NY courses upstaged the more reknowned courses I so enjoyed during my trip to London earlier in the year.   The only "lister" was Fenway, which I visited primarily to experience the short 15th.  I'd put it at the bottom of that list and it is undoubtedly a fine golf course and deservedly ranked. 

I'm thinking the amazing courses are often the "second hundred."  Ironic that Barney cited Idle Hour and Lookout Mountain, both of which fit that bill.  I so enjoyed the Ocean Course Monday, but I can't honestly say it lifted my spirit as much as Idle Hour on a cold, wet winter day a few years back.  I'm a big fan of Pete Dye's work, but I feel like I merely checked off a box on a list. 

Bogey

[Peter Pallotta]

Ian, Tom - reading your posts with mine still fresh in my mind, it struck me that your capacity and willingness to still appreciate and be thrilled by gca even after some 40 years of focus on the subject serves as both proof (that you're in the right profession) and explanation (of why you do such good work).

[Mike_Young]

Bogey,
Try it from the design end of things.  For most of us in the business we design/build regional projects knowing that if we are lucky we may get that one project once  with the right land and the right combination of owner , membership and climate to make it something special.  You learn to enjoy the local course the rest of the world will never know as great.  That's why I have never actively pursued the reno/redo market. 

[Sean_A]

Premise:  The more great architecture one experiences, the less one appreciates it.

I fear I am losing the thrill of being amazed.

Discuss.

Bogey

Bogey

I don't fear the loss of amazement, but I do fear not wanting to shift me lazy arse to see another run of the mill very good course.  This thought hit me after playing The Grove.  The course is perfectly good and cannot be faulted, but it left me a bit hollow.  Of course, thats as much down to me as the architecture.  I don't want that experience again.  I fear that slowly I will stop looking at pix and thinking of which new courses I might possibly play or perhaps worse, not make much of an effort to see the courses already identified. 

Ciao

[Niall C]

Bogey

I would have thought that your appreciation would increase over time as you become more aware of certain design aspects but that the bar for being amazed would rise in the same way that what appears wonderful to kids is simply mundane or common place for adults.

Niall

[Mike Hendren]

Gents, thanks for the responses and advice.  I fear I sound (and act) like a spoiled brat.

Mike, the purpose of my ten year plan was to study a spectrum of architecture.  Thanks for reminding me.

Mike Hendren (for Barney)

[Keith Grande]

The spirit/act of appreciation has little to do with the object of that appreciation, but this is a reality that only becomes apparent over time. It is, instead, an inate capacity of the observer, not of the observed -- though as with any capacity it can be under-developed and/or mostly latent. To quote/paraphrase one of your favourite authors: What a man sees and hears has a lot to do with where he is standing, but it has even more to do with the kind of man he is.  Maybe your spirit of appreciation has simply found a more profound object to focus on; the capacity is still there, alive and well, but it has been re-directed by your will to serve broader ends. If so, it would be in the natural order of things, and a sign of continued and healthy growth.

Peter

Post of the year!  Well said...

The only advice I have to offer, is in order to alleviate your pain, please forward all highly coveted architectural opportunities to my attention.  I still have alot to learn (and be amazed by)!

[Mac Plumart]

Peter nails it!

My 2 cents on this is based on what you've seen and how many times you've seen it.

For me, to see another course around Atlanta won't do too much for me.  I know the terrain, I know the grasses, I know the turf, etc.  I can see a neat hole, I can see a unique routing twist, but to see something that "amazes" me (and amazed was the term used in the opening post) I need to travel.

I was amazed by the golf in Mullen, NE.  I was amazed by the golf in GB&I.  Again, this tends to be terrain, grasses, turf quality/firmness, and the like.  Based on these factors, the designer/architect can do certain things...some of which can be unique and/or work better under certain conditions.

One of the most unlikely places for me to be amazed at, based on my personal golf experience, was Sweetens Cove.  Totally blown away by what was done there.

I haven't been to Australia for golf...I think I might be amazed there.  I haven't played a heathland course...not sure I'll be amazed, but I"m sure it will be, at a minimum, very interesting.  I might be amazed if I played Painswick.  Probably would be amazed at the culture of golf in Japan.  Very excited to see the routing at Highlands Links (it might be amazing).  What's Devries' new course...Cape Wickham...looks amazing.

Anyway, I'll stop now...as I hope I made my point and don't want to beat a dead horse.  For me, I need to see new things to experience true amazement in terms of golf architecture.