Next up: Chambers Bay. Sigh.

[Terry Lavin]

... It looks like pinball golf, random bounces and tricked up runouts. It looked that way at the U.S. Am and I've seen nothing since to persuade me otherwise.
...

Might as well cancel all future Open Championships across the pond, as they are played on those accursed links courses with their pinball golf, random bounces and tricked up runouts. Then Terry can bask in his fondness for the bland Chicago style courses.

Chambers Bay is quite tame compared to many of the 16 links courses I have played across the pond, and the three stateside. Perhaps the most apropos comparison is to Royal Porthcawl, which in my recollection would be comparable for random bounces, etc. Terry probably has been ranting against the R&A for holding their Senior Open there as there seemed to be only one true pinball player in the field.

Thanks for lending credence to the widely held notions about your global golf street cred. Keep it up, Fudd.

[Garland Bayley]

...
Thanks for lending credence to the widely held notions about your global golf street cred. Keep it up, Fudd.

Thanks for the name calling.

[Greg Feldman]

Looks like you're not the only one that feels that way Terry.  Poulter tweeting that "several players" are calling it a farce.  I guess he hasn't played it himself yet, so take that for whatever it's worth:

Ian Poulter ‏@IanJamesPoulter  17 minutes ago
Well several players have played Chambers Bay in prep for US Open. The reports back are its a complete farce. I guess someone has to win

[Terry Lavin]

Maybe Poulter hasn't played it, but what does he know about links courses, especially as compared to some hereabouts?

Bottom line, if the Open is anything like the Am, it will represent the elevation of quirk over skill. I'm hoping that the June agronomist conditions will guard against this, but there's the question of the severity of the setup. But it's America's St. Andrews after all, so maybe it will be a great Open despite the potential complications.

[JLahrman]

Looks like you're not the only one that feels that way Terry.  Poulter tweeting that "several players" are calling it a farce.  I guess he hasn't played it himself yet, so take that for whatever it's worth:

Ian Poulter ‏@IanJamesPoulter  17 minutes ago
Well several players have played Chambers Bay in prep for US Open. The reports back are its a complete farce. I guess someone has to win

Given his US Open record, if the tournament is held at a farce of a course it would probably improve his odds.

[Benjamin Litman]

Peter Uihlein, who won the U.S. Amateur at Chambers Bay in 2010, has since chimed in in response to Poulter's tweet, saying:

@IanJamesPoulter looking forward to what you have to say! I'm biased obviously but I think it's a fun place to play. Play well this week

[Terry Lavin]

Peter Uihlein, who won the U.S. Amateur at Chambers Bay in 2010, has since chimed in in response to Poulter's tweet, saying:

@IanJamesPoulter looking forward to what you have to say! I'm biased obviously but I think it's a fun place to play. Play well this week

I talked to Uihlein the year after he won at Chambers and he remarked on several occasions about the fine line between success and failure at CB. He played great, but he was very lucky, too. And every winner has a bit of that.

[Richard Choi]

Bottom line, if the Open is anything like the Am, it will represent the elevation of quirk over skill.

Judge, you keep saying this, and I just don't understand why you keep saying something that has no basis in reality.

The top four finishers for 2010 US Amateur were Peter Uihlein (undisputed #1 am player that year), David Chung (best west coast am), Patrick Cantlay (considered the best young player in NCAA), Byeung Hun An (#1 player in the world coming in).

You cannot seriously argue that a championship that produced those final four owes it to quirk and random bounces.

You may believe whatever you would like, but you cannot argue with the facts. US Amateur in 2010 picked winners as good as you will find anywhere.

[Terry Lavin]

Richard,

I'm not trying to crap in your CB lunchbox. Maybe it is America's St. Andrews. We'll see in a couple months. But what I saw on TV during the Am was pretty random result golf. Worked out for the final four I guess.

[Richard Choi]

Judge, I am not trying to stifle other people from questioning Chambers Bay. People are free to have opinions. We should not all be singing Hosannas. Chambers is a course with some very obvious faults (which I hope have been identifying as I go).

But your statement is just not true based on facts. 2010 US Amateur at Chambers Bay was very successful in identifying the very best amateur golfers of that year. I am not sure you can find another US Amateur final four without at least one player that no one heard of before. That could have been all luck, but you cannot argue with results.

[Amol Yajnik]

This doesn't sound promising either.  At least the course will probably look good on TV.

"@StephanieWei  4 minutes ago
One pro who just played Chambers Bay last weekend started singing, “M-I-C-K-E-Y-M-O-U-S-E” when I asked him what he thought of it. #usopen"

[David_Tepper]

To paraphrase a famous quote from the late Frank Hannigan, "the pros are last people you want to ask about the quality of the golf course they are playing."

[Matthew Sander]

This doesn't sound promising either.  At least the course will probably look good on TV.

"@StephanieWei  4 minutes ago
One pro who just played Chambers Bay last weekend started singing, “M-I-C-K-E-Y-M-O-U-S-E” when I asked him what he thought of it. #usopen"

No idea who the pro is that said the above, but I hope he shoots a couple of 82s. I know, I know...very mature of me.

[Benjamin Litman]

To paraphrase a famous quote from the late Frank Hannigan, "the pros are last people you want to ask about the quality of the golf course they are playing."

What David said. The pros (and I'm talking about the majority of pros, recognizing there are a few reasonable, keen outliers) like predictable, boring, "right in front of you" golf. Think Muirfield (as links go) and Firestone (as tree-lined American courses go). They hate quirky courses like Royal St. George's, which most people recognize as one of the great links in entire world. I still believe the pros wouldn't love Augusta if they didn't have to play it each year and weren't worried about incurring the wrath of the powerful membership. Same goes for St. Andrews if the pros weren't worried about sounding blasphemous or disrespectful of golf's home. Royal Melbourne, a close cousin of both St. Andrews and Augusta (in that MacKenzie modeled it, like Augusta, after St. Andrews), is less revered, so we consequently hear more pros, like Stacy Lewis, publicly bashing it for being "unpredictable" and "not rewarding good shots."

By the way, have any architects (apart from RTJ Sr. himself) chimed in with their opinions? Do we know how the course rates, for example, on the Doak scale?

[John Cowden]

It's too simple, really.  The pros and other minus cappers don't play courses for the same reasons most of us do.  They play to make a handsome living.  And the game itself does not lend itself to certainty in that regard, particularly not when the charm of chance and quirk and the ground game, which most of us may relish, f....s with their chance of a staightforward par or better.  Horses for courses.  Look for the winner to be self-possessed, aware, and confident enough in their skills and affinity for the game to cope with the chance, adapt to the quirk, and solve the ground game to prevail.

[Jon Cavalier]

Davis was quoted in the Seattle Times this morning as saying the greens will stimp at 12-12.5 for the tournament.

If this is true ... wow. Michael, you know the course well (I've only played it once). Do you think that speed is acceptable, borderline or grossly excessive? Seems like it could get really, really nuts at those speeds (and that they might lose some of the best pins as well). Would love to hear your thoughts, as well as those from people who have played the course).

For what it's worth, my two US Open thoughts as I walked off the course in early March at sunset after my first and only round, were (1) wow, that course is going to look great on TV and (2) if they set the course up really fast and firm, it could get crazy in a hurry - but either way, trainwrexk or perfect venue, I'll be eagerly looking forward to how it turns out. I still am.

[Richard Choi]

12 will be borderline unplayable. And it will (or at least should) put many pin positions out of play. But probably easier than what they had at ANGC running at 14.

I have always said from the beginning that the pros would probably hate this course. If you can find quotes from the PGA Tour players who started going overseas in earnest in the 70's and 80's and they would probably sound exactly the same.

If you were a risk manager, you would hate anything that would increase risks. These guys want to go low and they want things to be simple, straightforward, and predictable. Chambers is anything but those things.

But it will make great TV.

[Greg Gilson]

Jon/Richard, you both said exactly what I was thinking (but was too lazy to post on). If they get those slopes 12+ they will not be able to realistically cut holes in anything but the bowls. I have not played ANGC (I have walked it quite a bit) but I have played CB. I think the slopes at CB are , at least, as dramatic as many on ANGC.

I hope they dial it back a notch and do cut holes in some of the really fun (there is that word again) locations.

PS. Richard, thanks again for taking so much time helping illuminate even more whats going to be a FUN week of golf

PPS. If we are taking quotes from players about the venue, has anyone seen a comment from Ogilvy (or any other competitor with some credibility on the subject)?

[Sean_A]

I find it very difficult to believe that Chambers is really that unpredictable...it sure didn't look that way when I watched bits of the US AM.  Nearly all the time unpreditcability is brought up it is an inaccurate description which should be something more like additional experience is required to learn the course.  Is this a case of the ground game perhaps being a viable play at times and thus guys need to learn what happens after the ball lands and in which conditions to go aerial or not?

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

I really liked what I saw from the TV coverage we got of the US Amateur.  It's clear it is possible to score well there with a sensible strategy but that requires thought, so most of the pros will hate it.  All the more reason to look forward to the US Open there.

[Adam Clayman]

Richard,

I'm not trying to crap in your CB lunchbox. Maybe it is America's St. Andrews. We'll see in a couple months. But what I saw on TV during the Am was pretty random result golf. Worked out for the final four I guess.

   

Puhleeze, You won't see anything but what the director lets you see.

Torrey, Pinehurst and Shinny '04 proved that excitement on the leaderboard has nothing to do with the quality of the design. But mostly it proved how positively ignorant 99.8 % of veiwers know about the sport they play.

[John Kavanaugh]

Or maybe Torrey proved that the critics don't know what they are talking about.

[Josh Tarble]

This doesn't sound promising either.  At least the course will probably look good on TV.

"@StephanieWei  4 minutes ago
One pro who just played Chambers Bay last weekend started singing, “M-I-C-K-E-Y-M-O-U-S-E” when I asked him what he thought of it. #usopen"

What did Jack Nicklaus used to say:  "In tough conditions, I knew I had half the field beat before we teed off"  or something to that effect.  

After listening to early thoughts I'm even more excited because of how many guys are going to cry and complain and miss the cut.

[JESII]

I have to say, I'm more excited about this years US Open telecast solely because of the little I saw of the US Amateur 5 years ago.

I haven't read much of the ongoing Chambers Bay thread so really don't know anything about the course but can't wait to see the ball running all over the place...

[Steve Lang]

  Terry L.    

All that's perfectly clear (shall we also say predictable?) is that 6 weeks out, you've gotten quite a few interesting bites on three pages, even got ben sims to swear a bit; this is shaping up quite well as a modern classic don't you think?

well done man