Next up: Chambers Bay. Sigh.

[Steve Lang]

  i"d wager that the trunk slammers on Friday night don't think, "since my weekend is free, I'm gonna go down to Bandon!"

Richard, if Mike Davis is correct, you better get done quicker with your tour, so the pros have something to study before they arrive...

 

[David Stamm]

Sorry, Richard, but I couldn't help but chuckle when you compared Torrey and Merion. I don't want to derail the thread by expanding on that.


If Chambers is fortunate enough to have a similar story unfold there as what what we saw at Torrey, the merit of the course will be somewhat irrelevant.  


Your honor, let's wait and see all the evidence, i.e., the playing of the championship before giving a final verdict.

[Brent Hutto]

If Chambers is fortunate enough to have a similar story unfold there as what what we saw at Torrey, the merit of the course will be somewhat irrelevant.  

Well maybe "irrelevant" most places. It might matter to some oddball forum where they talk about golf course architecture but not in the rest of the world where the only important thing is the state of Tiger Woods' glutes.

[William_G]

there is no doubt that it will be awesome to see a US Open with fescue on a links course

to have such a course on county property near a major metro area in the PNW is no small achievement

the pros and caddies will have their hands full and with the current Master's champion's has experience at CB, would love to see him do well

where CB falls short, in many ways, is how all the nitpicking is present, didn't the course have a book printed called America's St. Andrews, it's just ridiculous

neverless, this will be a great championship, and as a new course to most everyone, broadcast by a new network to USGA golf hopefully it shows well

with no trees, hopefully, it will look similar to Oakmont on the Puget Sound 

[Joe Zucker]

As with most of you, I'm pretty excited to see it.  I don't know much about the course beyond the pictures here, but it certainly looks fun.  This tournament will be something  different from some of the recent US Opens.  Even if it "fails" or does not go perfectly, at least they tried a new course and took the tournament to a new place.  That's commendable and worth the risk, even if there are some challenges.

[Terry Lavin]

Sorry, Richard, but I couldn't help but chuckle when you compared Torrey and Merion. I don't want to derail the thread by expanding on that.


If Chambers is fortunate enough to have a similar story unfold there as what what we saw at Torrey, the merit of the course will be somewhat irrelevant.  


Your honor, let's wait and see all the evidence, i.e., the playing of the championship before giving a final verdict.

Your comment about Torrey is spot-on.  I share the view of many here who have derided the course, but it produced an absolutely epic US Open.  I haven't yet been impressed by what I've seen of Chambers Bay, whether by way of watching the US Amateur, or following Richard's thread or by reading the ridiculous book about the course ("America's St. Andrews"), but a lot of that could be kicked to the curb if the course provides the right stage for a major championship.

So, I'm sighing, but I'm trying nonetheless to keep an Open mind.   

[Brian Colbert]

I've talked about this plenty on this site, but I didn't like the set up for the am.

I felt like my good shots were rarely rewarded and my bad shots were excessively punished. I mapped out the pin sheets in my yardage book and picked out an exact spot that I wanted to land it on every hole. Even when I did land the ball where I wanted to, it rarely resulted in a good shot. I will truly never understand how Patrick Reed shot a 62. I felt confident going into the event but in hindsight, at 7,742 yards during the stroke play I was eliminated before the tournament even started.

[Brent Carlson]

I've talked about this plenty on this site, but I didn't like the set up for the am.

I felt like my good shots were rarely rewarded and my bad shots were excessively punished. I mapped out the pin sheets in my yardage book and picked out an exact spot that I wanted to land it on every hole. Even when I did land the ball where I wanted to, it rarely resulted in a good shot. I will truly never understand how Patrick Reed shot a 62. I felt confident going into the event but in hindsight, at 7,742 yards during the stroke play I was eliminated before the tournament even started.

Brian,

If you play the course enough you will learn where to play, and where to miss.  I've played with someone who was 6 under through 4.  Heck , I even shot a 31 on the back 9 from Navy tees.  Neither of us are scratch players.  Knowing the course / slopes will be of huge importance in this open.

[PCCraig]

I played Chambers Bay about 4 years ago and enjoyed it. There are some really neat holes and some pretty bland/gimmicy holes, but overall it's a way above average golf course. It's certainly an incredible site with very beautiful surroundings...I even think the train tracks and industrial remnants add to the neat vibe. The course itself played very firm and fast the day I was there, which seems like that's the norm, and that added to my enjoyment.

That being said, I think Chambers Bay is going to play pretty goofy for the pros. It'll look pretty on TV, but I think the guys are going to hate it. I'm imagining an event like one of the recent PGAs in Kohler. I also think the event is going to be a logistical nightmare as I have no idea how they are going to move people around that site.

Either way, it should be decently entertaining to watch from 1,500 miles away on TV.

[Benjamin Litman]

Two points:

1. What do people think of Davis's revelation that he will use sloped tee boxes at Chambers Bay (i.e., with uphill, downhill, or sidehill lies)? How many other courses have such a thing?

2. Regarding the many references to the beauty of Chambers Bay, my biggest concern with the USGA move to Fox is that Fox's HD (on NFL and MLB coverage) has always been grainy and blurry--almost SD or analog in appearance--and far, far worse than both NBC and CBS. Last night's preview confirmed that they have done nothing to rectify the matter in time for golf coverage. That's a shame, as golf, perhaps more than any other sport, has benefited from the advent of HD. A first-world problem, I know, but for a network that has been selling change and progress in golf coverage, this is a HUGE step backward. I'm not the only one who noticed--here's a piece by Geoff Shackelford: http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2015/4/28/greg-norman-i-never-watch-golf.html, in which he notes at the end that "the excitement factor was dulled by borderline standard-definition images beemed up by Fox and the mismatched audio that gave a hint of a Bruce Lee-film to the proceedings."

[Richard Choi]

I am going to put my other geek hat on for a sec...

FOX (and ABC) images are superior for fast moving images than that of, say, CBS.

This is because FOX and ABC use 720P HD instead of 1080i used by CBS and NBC. I am not going to bore you with the difference with progressive and interlaced signals, but at a high-level, 1080i produces superior still images while 720p produces superior moving images.

Since golf is mostly a still image sport, 1080i pictures from CBS and NBC will look better.

The things are made worse by FOX's continued use of older 480p cameras for the past generations to augment many of their coverages. You can see this from their NFL coverage. The most important matchups look great, but some of the lesser matchup pictures are fuzzy. This is because they use last generation cameras for less popular games and up-sample them to 720P, resulting in blurry images.

I suspect when US Open comes, they will get all of their HD cameras to Chambers (thank god, it is outside NFL season) so the previous problem should not affect US Open telecasts. But you will see plenty of SD up-converted images on Fox Sports till then.

[Jud_T]

Ben,

I'm sure it will be roundly denounced by most here, but conceptually I kind of like the idea of non level tees.  If "these guys are good" they ought to be able to adjust to whatever's thrown at them.  Anything that gets them away from the driving range robotry that we see week in and week out is a good thing IMO.

[Richard Choi]

I would not worry much about uneven tees.

Yes, since the tee boxes are continuous, there are uneven grounds within teeing grounds. But there is far more level ground than uneven ground. I suspect this will be a non-issue.

[Benjamin Litman]

Richard: That is very helpful. I had heard similar points made in bits and pieces, but that is by far the most comprehensive explanation I've seen. Well done, and thank you. I, too, hope they get their HD cameras in order before the tournament (and before the Women's Four-Ball at Pacific Dunes, for that matter).

Jud: I agree it should be interesting to see (though I now see Richard's clarifying comment), but I'm more curious about whether it's something that exists elsewhere or that architects even consider when building courses. I have never seen or heard of it.

[Ben Sims]

Terry,

Apologies if you thought I was biting. Lord knows that was far from it. The rarer my posts become on this site, the more real I like to keep them.

If I were to mount an actual defense of Chambers Bay as a venue for the U.S. Open, I'd pose a question. That question would distill down to taste, and how you like your golf course modified. The "standard" modification of existing golf courses for our national championship seems to favor narrowing, hardness, and speed. That becomes repetitive and boring in my opinion. So how else does a golf course protect itself? Contour is one of the more distinct ways a golf course can be made more difficult. Chambers Bay uses massive contours both internal and external to each golf hole to pose challenges to players. I don't see that concept as any more goofy than the bastardization of a great course like Merion or even the mutation of Bethpage.

[Ben Sims]

Some bum is likely to do the same to Chambers Bay.

 You mean like Lucas Glover or Webb Simpson?

[Joe Zucker]

Richard: That is very helpful. I had heard similar points made in bits and pieces, but that is by far the most comprehensive explanation I've seen. Well done, and thank you. I, too, hope they get their HD cameras in order before the tournament (and before the Women's Four-Ball at Pacific Dunes, for that matter).

Jud: I agree it should be interesting to see (though I now see Richard's clarifying comment), but I'm more curious about whether it's something that exists elsewhere or that architects even consider when building courses. I have never seen or heard of it.

When I was playing at the Dormie Club I was paired up with a local who said he plays there frequently.  He pointed out a couple spots where he said the tee sloped slightly to promote ball movement one way or the other.  I'm not sure if C&C did this intentionally or the tees were just placed on transition points of the slope that day.  I'll admit, this was the first time I heard of slope being intentional too.

[Joe Melchiors]

I've heard several people wonder how they are going to move the crowds around the site.  Do those of you that have been there think that will significantly reduce the amount of fescue in play, where really bad shots are better than slightly mishit ones? 

-Joe

[Norbert P]

  It would be interesting to have the results of questionaires given to three groups:  the pros that played it. the spectators who watched it, and the Illuminati of armchair architects.   What are the questions is the question.

I welcome the US Open to Chambers Bay.  Let 'em run.  The inherent beauty and allure of golf courses is their unique imperfections.

[Ben Sims]

I've heard several people wonder how they are going to move the crowds around the site.  Do those of you that have been there think that will significantly reduce the amount of fescue in play, where really bad shots are better than slightly mishit ones? 

-Joe

Though I don't think gallery movement will be perfect, I think there's a few things the course has that many do not. The biggest of these is the rather extensive arteries that run through the course. They're not cart paths. More to the point, a few of these paths are used as public waking trails. Others still are larger, single lane gravel roads that around the golf course. These paths can move traffic quickly. Due to the dunes and waste areas, spectator movement on specific holes may be difficult. But getting to and around the property should be no problem.

[Colin Macqueen]

Steve L,
You write

"Richard, if Mike Davis is correct, you better get done quicker with your tour, so the pros have something to study before they arrive..."

These were exactly my thoughts as well!!  I was imagining caddies with reams of A4 paper, copies of "The Choi Approach to Chambers Bay" tucked under their arm as they tried to explain why that "correct" landing spot resulted in this "incorrect" result. As the day wears on Chambers Bay would be awash with sheaves of Golf Club Atlas logo-ed pages a'blowing and a'fluttering in the wind.

I'll wager a goodly number of the golfers will have read Richard's guidelines afore they set off.  Grease to Richard's elbow!

Cheers Colin

[Richard Choi]

I feel like I need to start covering the internal contours of the tee box...

[Michael Essig]

Davis was quoted in the Seattle Times this morning as saying the greens will stimp at 12-12.5 for the tournament.

[JLahrman]

1. What do people think of Davis's revelation that he will use sloped tee boxes at Chambers Bay (i.e., with uphill, downhill, or sidehill lies)?

I believe he said that the USGA "may" use sloped tee boxes, not that it "will".

[Garland Bayley]

... It looks like pinball golf, random bounces and tricked up runouts. It looked that way at the U.S. Am and I've seen nothing since to persuade me otherwise.
...

Might as well cancel all future Open Championships across the pond, as they are played on those accursed links courses with their pinball golf, random bounces and tricked up runouts. Then Terry can bask in his fondness for the bland Chicago style courses.

Chambers Bay is quite tame compared to many of the 16 links courses I have played across the pond, and the three stateside. Perhaps the most apropos comparison is to Royal Porthcawl, which in my recollection would be comparable for random bounces, etc. Terry probably has been ranting against the R&A for holding their Senior Open there as there seemed to be only one true pinball player in the field.