Robert White, GCA

[Andy Hughes]

Well, I have learned from this site this week that two courses I played in my younger days (Water Gap and Glenbrook, in the Poconos) were done by White.  I then found that he was the first president of the PGA of America in 1916, and was a founding member of the American Society of Golf Course Architects
Is White a well-known and well-regarded architect? I never seem to hear his name here, nor mention of him as designing any well-known designs.
(Of course, this does give me a little ammo for MattW when he starts slandering Glenbrook and overlooking its obvious charms and subtle strategy )

[Chris_Blakely]

Robert White Courses that I have played:

Buck Hill Falls GC - Red Course (9H) Buck Hill Falls, Pa
Glen Brook GC       Stroudsburg, Pa
Green Hills GC (9H)  Birdsboro, Pa
Skytop Lodge   Skytop, Pa
Water Gap CC  Deleware Water Gap, Pa

As for any famous courses that he has done, I only know what is in C & W.  All of the courses listed above are worth a viist.  As for his name being mentioned here, if I remeber C&W well, he does not have an abundance of designs attriuted to him and several are NLE.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

-Manasquan River GC, Brielle, NJ (1924-1926)
(interesting note, Ron Prichard has done/is doing some sort of work there, not sure if it's restoration or renovation)

DRB

[JNagle]

Robert White has done some very interesting work.  He has even incorporated those features typical of Raynor or Banks into his designs.  As we were investigating the work being completed at North Shore (see previous postings) it was found that White had alot to do with that course than previously thought.  His work at the Longue Vue Club in Pittsburgh and Northampton Country Club in Easton are worth checking out.

Born 1874 – St. Andrews, Scotland
September 1894 – Robert White arrives in the U.S.
First (or early) Golf Pro at Myopia Hunt Club – Hamilton, MA 1895
Laid out original 9-holes at Salem C.C. “18 stakes on a Sunday”

Member – One of first Professional Golfers Organization in U.S. – Chicago 1907 “The Illinois Professional Golfers Association” (Pro at Ravisole C.C. 1902-1914)

First President of PGA of America – 1917- 1919
      - Wannamaker Meeting, New York City

Pro at North Shore C.C. on Long Island 1914-1922+.

First Pro/Greenkeeper to apply principles of crop agriculture to turf.  (Eleven years attended U. of Wisconsin “Farmers School” winter meetings – 1902-1912)

Ravisole was well maintained
- Shawnee-on-the-Delaware Pro/Greenkeeper for one year.
- Pro pay high, Greenkeeper pay low.

First “Management Company” Greenkeeping
-Pro at Wykagyl C.C., New Rochelle, NY 1922-1932
- Three young Pros – R.W.  supervised maintenance at eleven Westchester County courses.

Built first putting green on White House lawn.

First to develop golf boom in Myrtle Beach, S.C.
      - 1927 – Lay out first course on Grand Strand.
      - Bought land
      - Ocean Forest Club
Charter Member – 1948 - American Society of Golf Course Architects

Designer and builder of over 100 golf courses.

Died 1959 Myrtle Beach, S.C. age 85 – wealthy.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I once worked at a White course that is very much a hidden gem--Silver Spring located in Ridgefield Ct.  There are some bigtime tree issues, but the layout is fabulous.  The club is very quiet with Augusta, Seminole, PV, Blind Brook members. At some point in the future when I get a scanner I'll post pictures.  

[TEPaul]

I've been prompted to go to Cornish and Whitten a number of times to see who designed and built courses I've played and the only one I recall by Robert White was Longue Vue in Pittsburgh. I remember the course pretty well, it certainly was on land and topography which offered all kinds of interesting possibliities for golf and probably a few architectural problems but one hole really struck me---can't remember now which one it was---something like #12 or #13. I remember walking away from it to the next tee, looking back at it and thinking the green was so odd and so cool. It was like he designed the green to approach it from what looked like should've been the back of a normal green. That green inspired me to try to develop a concept on here a number of years ago I called "the playback hole".

[Mike_Cirba]

I've played a number of Robert White courses and never realized that his stint at Shawnee was so brief.  I say that because he designed a bunch of courses in the Poconos and although Matt Ward sees them as awful, I think many of them are quite a bit of fun.  

Here's the deal on the White courses I've played.  

1) He moved next to no earth on the midsections of his holes.  His tees are generally low profile, conforming to the land nicely, but many of his greens are propped up a bit, with both good slope, as well as some thoughtful internal contour.  Some of his greensites also utilize geometric features, with sharp slopes falling away.  

2) Because of the severity of the land on a number of his courses I've played, and his aversion (or, probably, lack of funds) to moving earth, he created some of the wackiest, naturally bizarre holes I've seen.  There are many blind shots, many shots utilizing changes of elevation, many side sloping shots (I defy anyone to keep a ball on the 18th fairway at Glen Brook during a dry summer, for instance), and when his courses are played firm and fast, require patience, understanding, restraint, and creativity to negotiate.  

3) Most are in the 6,200 yard range, which means that most of them haven't really been tinkered with much since they were created, thankfully.  At that time, that was a fairly lengthy course.  Some have been overgrown with trees, but others have been maintained fairly well, if modestly.

The courses of his I've played are;

Berkleigh CC (PA)
Buck Hill Falls (PA) Red nine
East Potomac Park (DC)
Glen Brook (PA)
Green Hills (PA) A really fun old nine-holer with original features, circa 1939
Mount Pocono (PA) A really strange nine holer he built for a couple of teachers after WWI.  I believe a couple of holes were lost/altered after Route 940 was widened.  
Pine Lakes CC (SC)
Skytop (PA)
Water Gap (PA)
Wiscasset (PA) (NLE)

I've heard good things about Manasquan River and hope to see it in the future.

[Andy Hughes]

2) Because of the severity of the land on a number of his courses I've played, and his aversion (or, probably, lack of funds) to moving earth, he created some of the wackiest, naturally bizarre holes I've seen.  There are many blind shots, many shots utilizing changes of elevation, many side sloping shots (I defy anyone to keep a ball on the 18th fairway at Glen Brook during a dry summer, for instance), and when his courses are played firm and fast, require patience, understanding, restraint, and creativity to negotiate.  

Mike, I agree wholeheartedly re 18 at Glenbrook. I know that means it must be an awful hole, but somehow I can't help but really like the hole, both for its interesting landforms and for its unique layout, and for the chance to make a 3 or an 8.  I still have not seen another hole quite like it.
And now that I know that White designed Water Gap as well, I seem to recall a par 5 there as well that had a sloping fairway that could not be held when the course was firm, maybe #10 or 11?
As you say Mike, I have always thought Glenbrook was very much fun to play, and the back-and-forth with Matt made me look at each hole.  And I have reached the conclusion that the course is actually an unsung gem, with the majority of the holes being quite good though some are admittedly unusual (#7 for example)

[T_MacWood]

JNagle
Is Robert White responsible for the Raynor & Banks-like holes at North Shore?

[Mike_Cirba]

Bringing to the top for John Bergan...

[JNagle]

Redanman -

You are missing a "nifty" Robert White course near you - Northampton Country Club.  

[Mike_Cirba]

Jim,

Are you sure that Northampton is a White course?  I've never played it but I believe I have some old literature indicating it was Tillinghast.

I do know that the Gordons made a number of changes in the 50s/60s and David Gordon indicated to me that he didn't know the original designer.