Aspen Lakes Now a Private NFT Club

[Sean Ogle]

I'm curious if anyone knows anything about this.


Aspen Lakes in Sisters, Oregon has long been one of my favorite "hidden gem" courses.


It looks like it's been bought by a company called Rhue Resorts, who is marketing it as "the world's first NFT private golf resort."


I know there's a few NFT golf projects out there, but this one feels like it came from out of nowhere.


On the one hand I'm bummed to lose access to a place I play a few times a year. On the other, I've always felt this place could be great if someone could put some money into it.

[Buck Wolter]

Membership is only 11.363039969620716864 ETH ($15K). The website says 10,000 members. Doesn't seem like its built for much resale value --- that would be $150 Million if they sold them all. Better than an pixelated ape I guess.

[Charlie Goerges]

What is an NFT club?

[Tom_Doak]

Be sure to put a reminder in your phone to revisit this thread in five years.  Or even three years.  I don't understand it at all, not that that means it's not going to work, but there is a lot of b.s. in the world and shiny new business models are often among the worst of it.

[Buck Wolter]

What is an NFT club?

NFT is a Non-Fungible Token, sort of a digital deed built on the blockchain and traded via crypto (usually Etherium), you would own this NFT giving you a Membership to the club and could then sell the rights through the NFT and the new buyer would then be a member. In this case I can't imagine there's much value in being a club member with 9,999 others who all can sell there's as well but could see it working in the right place.


I was just at Sand Valley and think a public course could make sense to pre-sell rounds as NFT's -- I could buy 50 rounds to Trump Tara Valley World Dunes at $100 each which helps fund the development and then I can cash them in to play those rounds once its built or sell them to somebody else at a market price. I wish I had that at Sand Valley.


I don't think NFT's are BS on their own but most of the uses so far have been with no real value associated with them but that doesn't have to be the case. The technology is real but the business models are still being developed as Web 3.0 (I know enough about this to be dangerous and could have many facts above wrong).

[Joe Hancock]

What is an NFT club?

NFT is a Non-Fungible Token, sort of a digital deed built on the blockchain and traded via crypto (usually Etherium), you would own this NFT giving you a Membership to the club and could then sell the rights through the NFT and the new buyer would then be a member. In this case I can't imagine there's much value in being a club member with 9,999 others who all can sell there's as well but could see it working in the right place.


I was just at Sand Valley and think a public course could make sense to pre-sell rounds as NFT's -- I could buy 50 rounds to Trump Tara Valley World Dunes at $100 each which helps fund the development and then I can cash them in to play those rounds once its built or sell them to somebody else at a market price. I wish I had that at Sand Valley.


I don't think NFT's are BS on their own but most of the uses so far have been with no real value associated with them but that doesn't have to be the case. The technology is real but the business models are still being developed as Web 3.0 (I know enough about this to be dangerous and could have many facts above wrong).

I have no idea what you just said. Honestly. And, that’s on me, not you. I know nothing about NFT’s, and I don’t care.

[Peter Flory]

What if someone transfers the NFT to a new member who wears a hat inside the clubhouse and changes their shoes in the parking lot? 

[Charlie Goerges]

What are the advantages/disadvantages of an NFT club over the way it generally is now?

[Pete_Pittock]

What if someone transfers the NFT to a new member who wears a hat inside the clubhouse and changes their shoes in the parking lot?

Other Peter,
I don't think those rules apply to people likely to join a NFT club.


The ownership is anticipating an amphitheater on property, an indoor waterpark as a year round destination. The golf course would seem to be just an amenity.

[Mike Sweeney]

What are the advantages/disadvantages of an NFT club over the way it generally is now?

PROS: These are BIG ifs, based on the NFT technology setup:


1) True "majority rules", where 51% drives the direction of the club. If someone wears LSU Purple & Gold on the first tee, the 51% from Alabama can vote them out.


2) You can vote "anonymously" so you eliminate club politics. (but people still talk...)


3) Eliminate transfer fees.


4) Reduce need for lawyers - see #3.


5) Reduce need for insurance.




CONS:


1) The "perfect club" still depends on the experience of PEOPLE to set up the NFT rules.


2) The Head Pro/GM - the NFT Holders are responsible for the direction of the club. You can't blame the Pro/Greenskeeper for slow play, bad greens... they are just following "the rules".


3) There are "the rules", and then there is "the system". Every Revolution starts with one person, but that is harder when you need to revolutionize 51% of the NFT/Membership holders to change. An Individual Owner or even a Board, can make quicker decisions, and be willing to live with them. The Board might get thrown out, and are willing to take that chance for the betterment of the course/club. The NFT Manager is just executing The Rules. They only get fired for not executing The Rules.


Hope that helps.

[Tom_Doak]

What are the advantages/disadvantages of an NFT club over the way it generally is now?

PROS: These are BIG ifs, based on the NFT technology setup:


1) True "majority rules", where 51% drives the direction of the club. If someone wears LSU Purple & Gold on the first tee, the 51% from Alabama can vote them out.


2) You can vote "anonymously" so you eliminate club politics. (but people still talk...)


3) Eliminate transfer fees.


4) Reduce need for lawyers - see #3.


5) Reduce need for insurance.

A question about #5 - are you reducing the need for insurance because the NFT owners are taking on the liability for injuries, problems, etc?  And do people who invest in NFTs understand those risks?  If this is the reason for less insurance, it’s not going to lead to fewer lawyers, in the long haul.


I also think it might be difficult to retain good employees, if the “boss” is an unseen, changing group of investors and the majority rules.

[Steve Lapper]

1) Many of you are confusing a straight NFT with a DAO (Decentralized Autonomous Organization). The former is simply a token or specified-rights token, whereas the latter is a structure that organizes and/or governs a group of NFT stakeholders.


2) NFTs, in and of themselves, are nothing more than a share, a stake, a right to represent something registered on a specific blockchain. If they are simply minted to create that share, they likely have NO say (neither in individual or aggregate voting) over the governance or policy of that share, right or stake.


3) DAO's create, maintain, service and govern.....all by smart contract (registered on a blockchain). I have no idea if Aspen Lakes is being organized under a DAO, or has some management-governance group that will make group-influenced (but not mandated) policy decisions.


LinksDAO is probably the best-known attempt at marrying crypto-funding to golf course ownership. They are a DAO, but have wisely outsourced course management (and acquisition consulting) to Kemper, a well-established golf management co.


Lastly, I agree with Tom that Mike's claim to "Reduce need for insurance" is neither logical nor accurate. Insurance won't be underwritten by NFT holders, instead it is necessary and will be procured, managed and responsible to whomever the operating management company is. Ultimately, NFT holders might be held liable for the ongoing rights to use, under some ladder of risk, but I guarantee whomever is requesting this policy will find an underwriter who will clearly define the property as the ultimate collateral. No way any underwriter will write a policy that plans on chasing NFT holders for personal liability without legal precedent.


Just the opposite will likely evolve...Higher premiums will be charged and MORE insurance required.


I do disagree with Tom on his prediction for the difficulty of retaining "good" employees. I think younger people are excited about participating in a decentralized crypto environment and won't be deterred from being involved in a club with an NFT membership.....probably a whole lot less homogenous (and thus more attractive) than a traditional local private membership.

[Peter Flory]

A normal club structure could easily have majority rules and anonymous voting. 

[Charlie Goerges]

A normal club structure could easily have majority rules and anonymous voting.

I was thinking the same thing, so I'm also glad that Steve added some clarity with the explanation of DAO vs NFT and so on (I had no idea what a DAO was).


I guess I'm still confused about some stuff. As a member, it feels like the main difference is in how you pay and not much else (perhaps it's easier to sell your stake when you move to a new place and can no longer maintain the membership), especially if the club still needs to hire a Kemper-style company to run things. I'm sure I'm missing stuff, hopefully someone can explain what that is.