Golf Club Atlas

GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: mike_malone on September 26, 2023, 10:50:18 AM

Title: What truly great courses have architecturally that are distinctive to them?
Post by: mike_malone on September 26, 2023, 10:50:18 AM
Very good courses have many great things like greens, routing, challenge and more.


  Are there distinctive things that the very best courses have?


  Some ideas I have:


  Naming your favorite 3 holes ends in 10+ holes mentioned.


Can’t think of another course like it. It is unique in its specialness.


Interesting throughout the hole for almost all of the holes.
Title: Re: What truly great courses have architecturally that are distinctive to them?
Post by: Ira Fishman on September 26, 2023, 07:55:58 PM
An interesting question.


The courses that I consider to be the best among those I have played:


Lahinch
CPC
North Berwick
Pinehurst 2


Common element: brilliant features across the course that are difficult to find anywhere else.


Next group:


Somerset Hills
Friar’s Head
Bandon Trails
Golspie


Common element: weaving together holes across different land forms.


Next group:


Ballyneal
Swinley Forest
St.George’s Hill
Pasatiempo


Common element: routing that flows like a great novel or musical composition.


Final group:


Primland
Yale
Blackwolf Run River
The Island Club


Common element: audacious use of land without going over the top.







Title: Re: What truly great courses have architecturally that are distinctive to them?
Post by: mike_malone on September 26, 2023, 08:18:58 PM
Ira,


  Of your top tier I have played Lahinch and North Berwick multiple times and agree that they seem to be one of a kind.
Title: Re: What truly great courses have architecturally that are distinctive to them?
Post by: Tom_Doak on September 26, 2023, 09:55:04 PM
I always marvel that Augusta, Pine Valley and St Andrews are the three courses that get the most support for being the best in the world, and it would be hard to name three others that were so different from one another.
Title: Re: What truly great courses have architecturally that are distinctive to them?
Post by: Thomas Dai on September 27, 2023, 06:14:46 AM
I marvel at how some architects, James Braid in particular comes to mind, was able to lay out terrific courses on terrain ranging from pretty flat and essentially featureless to extremely hilly and frequently did so with very little budget available.
Atb
Title: Re: What truly great courses have architecturally that are distinctive to them?
Post by: mike_malone on September 27, 2023, 10:02:45 AM
If we list your top three holes on the Old Course how many total holes would be mentioned?


I like 5, 11, 14.
Title: Re: What truly great courses have architecturally that are distinctive to them?
Post by: Ed Brzezowski on September 27, 2023, 01:14:16 PM
If we list your top three holes on the Old Course how many total holes would be mentioned?


I like 5, 11, 14.


No love for 12?
Title: Re: What truly great courses have architecturally that are distinctive to them?
Post by: mike_malone on September 27, 2023, 06:05:37 PM
I eagled it but I need to stick to three holes.
Title: Re: What truly great courses have architecturally that are distinctive to them?
Post by: Bill Gayne on September 27, 2023, 06:06:45 PM
On TOC I could understand how people could make a case for 1, 5, 7, and 11 through 18 being included in their top three.


My top three 11, 16, and 17. At twilight on a Summer day the walk from 12 tee box to 18 green is one of the best walks in golf.
Title: Re: What truly great courses have architecturally that are distinctive to them?
Post by: mike_beene on September 27, 2023, 10:30:56 PM
2, 17,18. The greens make the difference.
Title: Re: What truly great courses have architecturally that are distinctive to them?
Post by: mike_malone on September 27, 2023, 10:40:43 PM
2, 17,18. The greens make the difference.


 Watching the Walker Cup I was stunned by the #2 green.
Title: Re: What truly great courses have architecturally that are distinctive to them?
Post by: V. Kmetz on September 28, 2023, 09:22:25 AM
I always marvel that Augusta, Pine Valley and St Andrews are the three courses that get the most support for being the best in the world, and it would be hard to name three others that were so different from one another.


I think if you added Cypress Pt to that premium list, it would be four that remained so different from one another.
Title: Re: What truly great courses have architecturally that are distinctive to them?
Post by: mike_malone on September 28, 2023, 10:43:59 AM
Are there similar architectural characteristics about those four courses that can be named to create a checklist for the greatest courses that distinguish them from the very good?


  I believe that naming the favorite three holes elicits at least 10 choices from a group of people. That seems to be one clear distinction.


How are the very best special in a way that the next tier falls short?
Title: Re: What truly great courses have architecturally that are distinctive to them?
Post by: Tom_Doak on September 30, 2023, 12:15:46 AM
Are there similar architectural characteristics about those four courses that can be named to create a checklist for the greatest courses that distinguish them from the very good?

How are the very best special in a way that the next tier falls short?




There are no checklists - that's the checklist.  The very best courses are materially different, and don't worry about rules set by others.  An example:  The Old Course has only two par-3's.
Title: Re: What truly great courses have architecturally that are distinctive to them?
Post by: Sean_A on September 30, 2023, 02:58:01 AM
Are there similar architectural characteristics about those four courses that can be named to create a checklist for the greatest courses that distinguish them from the very good?

How are the very best special in a way that the next tier falls short?




There are no checklists - that's the checklist.  The very best courses are materially different, and don't worry about rules set by others.  An example:  The Old Course has only two par-3's.

Even if there was a checklist, each item would weigh quite differently in the overall design. The terrain speaks as loud as anything else.

Ciao