Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: David_Tepper on August 26, 2023, 11:20:26 AM
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I have heard at least half a dozen reports of delayed/missing/lost golf bags this summer on air travel between the U.S. and GB&I.
Some of those bags hold a range finder powered by a lithium battery. There has been some talk that a bag holding a lithium battery gets flagged by airport/airline security and that is what is causing the problems/delays.
Does anyone know more about this?
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Yes, you absolutely should not stow lithium ion batteries. They are a very serious fire risk and must be placed in your carry on.
This is addressed where you "click agree" as you check in, where they show the regulations on what you may-and-may-not pack in a checked bag, but most people don’t actually read that.
(edit: this was incorrect and is only applicable to loose lithium ion batteries.)
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Informative thread. Have always had rangefinder in bag on trips (same with others who joined me on trips) and never had a problem. Agree that I (and others) didn't read the check-in fine print.
Will keep rangefinder separate on next golf trip.
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I think the question is not whether you can have range finders with lithium batteries in your checked luggage but rather whether your clubs will be delayed due to having a range finder in the bag? Does anyone know the answer to that question? I assume that’s not the issue. Because when the clubs finally arrive they will have the “illegal battery” in them. Why delay them and then send them? I assume it is the usual airline mistake and has nothing to do with the battery or they would have confiscated it before forwarding.
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So, I think the main issue is that the FAA/TSA (not the airline) is the one who is going through your bag if you have what appears to be a li-ion battery. They don't really care whether your bag reaches your flight in time. My understanding via a bit of internet-ing here is that bags are delayed for the most mundane of reasons; namely, that there is an effective conveyor belt of baggage, and on full flights, on busy days, standard bags (that don't even get tagged for inspection by TSA) might not end up on the flight because the airport is operating at-or-over capacity. This means that getting a bag pulled by TSA dramatically increases the probability that your bag misses the flight on a busy day.
It is also worth remembering that many models of rangefinders (not gps units) run on removable Cr2-3V (lithium) batteries. They are removable, they don't look like a typical li-ion batteries, and they only cost about $5 to replace, but they are still probably going to raise the eyebrow of the TSA. (edit: again this is only relevant to loose lithium ion batteries)
Show up early if you have checked bags, read the fine print, and understand that most oversized baggage is going to get, at minimum, a brief TSA search (I know because I fly with a bicycle occasionally, and it has never not been searched).
More info:
FAA - Portable Electronic Devices Containing Batteries (edit: they are generally allowed in checked baggage): https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/portable-electronic-devices-with-batteries (https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/portable-electronic-devices-with-batteries)
FAA - Lithium Batteries (edit: they are not allowed in checked baggage): https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/lithium-batteries (https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/lithium-batteries)
Close call caused by a single li-ion battery in 2018: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-delta-flight-scare-is-a-reminder-why-you-should-never-put-electronics-with-lithium-batteries-in-checked-baggage-2018-03-13 (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-delta-flight-scare-is-a-reminder-why-you-should-never-put-electronics-with-lithium-batteries-in-checked-baggage-2018-03-13)
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So you are saying if they detect an ion battery in your golf bag, the TSA will pull the bag aside so it misses that flight. Then go ahead and put that bag on the next flight without removing the battery. I guess that’s a penalty for violating TSA rules by forcing you to wait another flight to get your bag. But after the penalty is applied, they put the dangerous bag right back in another plane. Yeah, that makes sense.
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So you are saying if they detect an ion battery in your golf bag, the TSA will pull the bag aside so it misses that flight. Then go ahead and put that bag on the next flight without removing the battery. I guess that’s a penalty for violating TSA rules by forcing you to wait another flight to get your bag. But after the penalty is applied, they put the dangerous bag right back in another plane. Yeah, that makes sense.
Ahh, yes, I definitely misunderstood the point you were making. You have a good point, I have no idea why that would happen short of just automatically checking oversized bags.
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I think the airlines would love to blame delayed golf clubs on the TSA and the lithium battery issue. Take the heat off of them for a change. ;D
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I think the airlines would love to blame delayed golf clubs on the TSA and the lithium battery issue. Take the heat off of them for a change. ;D
Definitely agree. I typically try and arrive with enough time to have a relaxing whisky before resign myself to the sardine can.
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Not buying this at all. I travel with laser and computer and never had an issue.
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Nobody knows why your bags get misplaced or delayed. Least of all the internet. It just happens.
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A discussion of the topic below. It may (or may not) be helpful:
https://www.ubergolf.net/can-you-fly-with-a-golf-rangefinder/
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Not buying this at all. I travel with laser and computer and never had an issue.
I’m with you. I took an extended 30 day trip to Europe with the golf bag this summer. It involved 3 flights (EWR-EDI, EDI-Oslo, Oslo-EWR). No issues.
Also, one has to be present at the oversize baggage check in, and no agent flagged my bag for the rangefinder traveling in the luggage.
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So, I think the main issue is that the FAA/TSA (not the airline) is the one who is going through your bag if you have what appears to be a li-ion battery.
It is also worth remembering that many models of rangefinders (not gps units) run on removable Cr2-3V (lithium) batteries. They are removable, they don't look like a typical li-ion batteries, and they only cost about $5 to replace, but they are still probably going to raise the eyebrow of the TSA.
FAA - Portable Electronic Devices Containing Batteries: https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/portable-electronic-devices-with-batteries (https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/portable-electronic-devices-with-batteries)
FAA - Lithium Batteries: https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/lithium-batteries (https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/lithium-batteries)
Matt,
Your speculation does not jibe with the information in one of the links that you posted. According to the FAA:
Most consumer personal electronic devices containing batteries are allowed in carry-on and checked baggage, including but not limited to cell phones, smart phones, data loggers, PDAs, electronic games, tablets, laptop computers, cameras, camcorders, watches, calculators, etc. This covers typical dry cell batteries and lithium metal and lithium ion batteries for consumer electronics (AA, AAA, C, D, button cell, camera batteries, laptop batteries, etc.)
A CR2 battery properly installed in a rangefinder would almost certainly fit the description of "most consumer personal electronic devices."
Some airlines may have different policies, but Delta makes passengers agree that they are not carrying loose or spare Li- batteries. This is consistent with the FAA guidance. The greater risk from loose batteries is that they are packaged in unknown ways and could be more easily damaged or come into contact with some other substance. Properly installed batteries in a device that is powered down are not the concern.
Golf clubs and other types of baggage get delayed for all sorts of reasons, but I don't think a hunt for rangefinders is one of them.
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My sticks almost always get searched
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So, I think the main issue is that the FAA/TSA (not the airline) is the one who is going through your bag if you have what appears to be a li-ion battery.
It is also worth remembering that many models of rangefinders (not gps units) run on removable Cr2-3V (lithium) batteries. They are removable, they don't look like a typical li-ion batteries, and they only cost about $5 to replace, but they are still probably going to raise the eyebrow of the TSA.
FAA - Portable Electronic Devices Containing Batteries: https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/portable-electronic-devices-with-batteries (https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/portable-electronic-devices-with-batteries)
FAA - Lithium Batteries: https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/lithium-batteries (https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/lithium-batteries)
Matt,
Your speculation does not jibe with the information in one of the links that you posted. According to the FAA:
Most consumer personal electronic devices containing batteries are allowed in carry-on and checked baggage, including but not limited to cell phones, smart phones, data loggers, PDAs, electronic games, tablets, laptop computers, cameras, camcorders, watches, calculators, etc. This covers typical dry cell batteries and lithium metal and lithium ion batteries for consumer electronics (AA, AAA, C, D, button cell, camera batteries, laptop batteries, etc.)
A CR2 battery properly installed in a rangefinder would almost certainly fit the description of "most consumer personal electronic devices."
Some airlines may have different policies, but Delta makes passengers agree that they are not carrying loose or spare Li- batteries. This is consistent with the FAA guidance. The greater risk from loose batteries is that they are packaged in unknown ways and could be more easily damaged or come into contact with some other substance. Properly installed batteries in a device that is powered down are not the concern.
Golf clubs and other types of baggage get delayed for all sorts of reasons, but I don't think a hunt for rangefinders is one of them.
A refreshing take.
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My sticks almost always get searched
On return flight from 9 day trip to Scotland in '91, all of my dirty laundry (including clothes from last round at Southerness where it poured for 18 holes) were in my club carrier. Hadn't shaved for the entire trip, and fit the description of a terrorist. Arrived in Toronto on Air Canada flight and went thru customs. My buddies walked right through. I got flagged and taken to the side. Guy opened my club carrier which was extremely ripe. He must have regretted his decision to do that.
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Matt,
Your speculation does not jibe with the information in one of the links that you posted. According to the FAA:
Most consumer personal electronic devices containing batteries are allowed in carry-on and checked baggage, including but not limited to cell phones, smart phones, data loggers, PDAs, electronic games, tablets, laptop computers, cameras, camcorders, watches, calculators, etc. This covers typical dry cell batteries and lithium metal and lithium ion batteries for consumer electronics (AA, AAA, C, D, button cell, camera batteries, laptop batteries, etc.)
A CR2 battery properly installed in a rangefinder would almost certainly fit the description of "most consumer personal electronic devices."
Some airlines may have different policies, but Delta makes passengers agree that they are not carrying loose or spare Li- batteries. This is consistent with the FAA guidance. The greater risk from loose batteries is that they are packaged in unknown ways and could be more easily damaged or come into contact with some other substance. Properly installed batteries in a device that is powered down are not the concern.
Golf clubs and other types of baggage get delayed for all sorts of reasons, but I don't think a hunt for rangefinders is one of them.
This is why I try to give citations when I make claims. I seem to have been mistaken and I will update the previous comments to reflect that.
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Please don’t edit your mistakes. No one wants to read anyone’s post twice. Plus it makes you seem less chat botty.
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Please don’t edit your mistakes. No one wants to read anyone’s post twice.
I use strikethroughs so that anyone who comes by later (even years later) can read my comment, but immediately understand that there is something wrong with it. I'm happy to learn that I'm wrong about something, but I'm not going to accidentally misinform going forward.
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My sticks almost always get searched
On return flight from 9 day trip to Scotland in '91, all of my dirty laundry (including clothes from last round at Southerness where it poured for 18 holes) were in my club carrier. Hadn't shaved for the entire trip, and fit the description of a terrorist. Arrived in Toronto on Air Canada flight and went thru customs. My buddies walked right through. I got flagged and taken to the side. Guy opened my club carrier which was extremely ripe. He must have regretted his decision to do that.
This reminds me of a traveling companion years ago who was of middle eastern descent but was very well put together. We were traveling to India in 2005, (approx. 4 years post 9-11), and despite being a US citizen from birth was "randomly selected" for the full check-over every. single. time. he flew...says he lost track after about 20 searches.
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My sticks almost always get searched
On return flight from 9 day trip to Scotland in '91, all of my dirty laundry (including clothes from last round at Southerness where it poured for 18 holes) were in my club carrier. Hadn't shaved for the entire trip, and fit the description of a terrorist. Arrived in Toronto on Air Canada flight and went thru customs. My buddies walked right through. I got flagged and taken to the side. Guy opened my club carrier which was extremely ripe. He must have regretted his decision to do that.
This reminds me of a traveling companion years ago who was of middle eastern descent but was very well put together. We were traveling to India in 2005, (approx. 4 years post 9-11), and despite being a US citizen from birth was "randomly selected" for the full check-over every. single. time. he flew...says he lost track after about 20 searches.
How would you describe “well put together “ without coming off racist?
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My sticks almost always get searched
On return flight from 9 day trip to Scotland in '91, all of my dirty laundry (including clothes from last round at Southerness where it poured for 18 holes) were in my club carrier. Hadn't shaved for the entire trip, and fit the description of a terrorist. Arrived in Toronto on Air Canada flight and went thru customs. My buddies walked right through. I got flagged and taken to the side. Guy opened my club carrier which was extremely ripe. He must have regretted his decision to do that.
This reminds me of a traveling companion years ago who was of middle eastern descent but was very well put together. We were traveling to India in 2005, (approx. 4 years post 9-11), and despite being a US citizen from birth was "randomly selected" for the full check-over every. single. time. he flew...says he lost track after about 20 searches.
How would you describe “well put together “ without coming off racist?
That's funny. I've met people of all ethnicities who were either dressed poorly with bad hygiene or dressed sharp in nice clothes and well groomed.
Never heard the racist angle until now...nice work Barney!
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A US Citizen traveling on business to India being “well put together” can go unsaid.
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If the TSA was pulling bags with lithium batteries, every bag with an Apple AirTag would be getting pulled.
When my girlfriend and I went to Iceland in 2021, my golf clubs with a rangefinder in the bag made it but her bag got left behind. It’s random.
That being said, golf bags are oversized and get handled differently. Since they probably don’t go through the automated baggage handlers, they can. Easily be put aside and missed.
In 2019, I officiated at the second Korn Ferry tournament of the season in the Bahamas. The Monday afterward, many of the players and I were on a small commercial flight to Miami where they had qualifiers for future events. Since the plane wasn’t big, about half the golf clubs got left off the flight. Needless to say there were a lot of very unhappy players.
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Apple AirTags are pretty cheap. Put one in your bag permanently - that won't help you from the airline losing your bag, but at least you should know where it is.
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Apple AirTags are pretty cheap. Put one in your bag permanently - that won't help you from the airline losing your bag, but at least you should know where it is.
I think I got 4 for $99. Always have one in my golf bag.
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I have told this story before. An Airline exec that I know very well told me this. Our job is to get the passenger from point A to B. We are not in the cargo business. We hope to please the customer on the baggage, but it’s not our core business. He then told me he always sends anything important like golf clubs via FedEx or DHL. They are in the cargo business and live and and die by satisfaction of the shipper. They are much more likely to get your clubs from point A to B. As an aside, has anyone ever heard of FedEx or DHL refusing to ship a golf bag either due to weight restrictions or lithium batteries? I have not.
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I have told this story before. An Airline exec that I know very well told me this. Our job is to get the passenger from point A to B. We are not in the cargo business. We hope to please the customer on the baggage, but it’s not our core business. He then told me he always sends anything important like golf clubs via FedEx or DHL. They are in the cargo business and live and and die by satisfaction of the shipper. They are much more likely to get your clubs from point A to B. As an aside, has anyone ever heard of FedEx or DHL refusing to ship a golf bag either due to weight restrictions or lithium batteries? I have not.
That works domestically in the US but not so much when you are going internationally when it gets very expensive.
I fly with my clubs 3-4 times per year and have yet to lose my clubs or not have them show up before I was set to play golf. My closest call was when I went to Scotland in 98 my bags were late arriving - but they showed up at by BnB in Carnoustie at 2 am the night before my first round.
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I have told this story before. An Airline exec that I know very well told me this. Our job is to get the passenger from point A to B. We are not in the cargo business. We hope to please the customer on the baggage, but it’s not our core business. He then told me he always sends anything important like golf clubs via FedEx or DHL. They are in the cargo business and live and and die by satisfaction of the shipper. They are much more likely to get your clubs from point A to B. As an aside, has anyone ever heard of FedEx or DHL refusing to ship a golf bag either due to weight restrictions or lithium batteries? I have not.
How is any passenger happy to get from point A to point B and then not have luggage? If he told me that, I'm flying another airline.
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I have told this story before. An Airline exec that I know very well told me this. Our job is to get the passenger from point A to B. We are not in the cargo business. We hope to please the customer on the baggage, but it’s not our core business. He then told me he always sends anything important like golf clubs via FedEx or DHL. They are in the cargo business and live and and die by satisfaction of the shipper. They are much more likely to get your clubs from point A to B. As an aside, has anyone ever heard of FedEx or DHL refusing to ship a golf bag either due to weight restrictions or lithium batteries? I have not.
Every single airline tracks baggage metrics. Every one. What’s more, it’s important enough to track and report daily in the Network Operations Center.
That to say, I’ve said some flippant things at a dinner party too.
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I have told this story before. An Airline exec that I know very well told me this. Our job is to get the passenger from point A to B. We are not in the cargo business. We hope to please the customer on the baggage, but it’s not our core business. He then told me he always sends anything important like golf clubs via FedEx or DHL. They are in the cargo business and live and and die by satisfaction of the shipper. They are much more likely to get your clubs from point A to B. As an aside, has anyone ever heard of FedEx or DHL refusing to ship a golf bag either due to weight restrictions or lithium batteries? I have not.
Every single airline tracks baggage metrics. Every one. What’s more, it’s important enough to track and report daily in the Network Operations Center.
That to say, I’ve said some flippant things at a dinner party too.
I forwarded your comment to my airline friend. He said you are exactly right. It is tracked and reported. Then he asked me if I had any idea who ranked first and who ranked last in that stat. I was stumped :-\ . I think I will follow his advice and stick with FedEx. ;D
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I have told this story before. An Airline exec that I know very well told me this. Our job is to get the passenger from point A to B. We are not in the cargo business. We hope to please the customer on the baggage, but it’s not our core business. He then told me he always sends anything important like golf clubs via FedEx or DHL. They are in the cargo business and live and and die by satisfaction of the shipper. They are much more likely to get your clubs from point A to B. As an aside, has anyone ever heard of FedEx or DHL refusing to ship a golf bag either due to weight restrictions or lithium batteries? I have not.
Every single airline tracks baggage metrics. Every one. What’s more, it’s important enough to track and report daily in the Network Operations Center.
That to say, I’ve said some flippant things at a dinner party too.
I forwarded your comment to my airline friend. He said you are exactly right. It is tracked and reported. Then he asked me if I had any idea who ranked first and who ranked last in that stat. I was stumped :-\ . I think I will follow his advice and stick with FedEx. ;D
I don’t disagree that Ship Sticks (or any other “shipping” method) can be very reliable and hassle-free. I’ve also never had a lost or delayed bag in 25 years. Perhaps I’m lucky and my number will come up soon.
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Does Shipsticks pricing make sense for Americans, because it sure doesn't for Canadians. For example, here is a quote from Toronto to Edinburgh:
Outbound $434.99 (3-5 days in transit)
Return $354.99 (2-4 business days in transit)
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I have told this story before. An Airline exec that I know very well told me this. Our job is to get the passenger from point A to B. We are not in the cargo business. We hope to please the customer on the baggage, but it’s not our core business. He then told me he always sends anything important like golf clubs via FedEx or DHL. They are in the cargo business and live and and die by satisfaction of the shipper. They are much more likely to get your clubs from point A to B. As an aside, has anyone ever heard of FedEx or DHL refusing to ship a golf bag either due to weight restrictions or lithium batteries? I have not.
Every single airline tracks baggage metrics. Every one. What’s more, it’s important enough to track and report daily in the Network Operations Center.
That to say, I’ve said some flippant things at a dinner party too.
I forwarded your comment to my airline friend. He said you are exactly right. It is tracked and reported. Then he asked me if I had any idea who ranked first and who ranked last in that stat. I was stumped :-\ . I think I will follow his advice and stick with FedEx. ;D
I've told this story before, but beware of shipping with FedUp. I sent my clubs to Az for my brother's bachelor party. They made it to Memphis. Then they denied my claim for damages. I've never used FedUp again (my firm had an account that spent upwards of $25k per year that shifted over to Brown). F Fed Up
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Does Shipsticks pricing make sense for Americans, because it sure doesn't for Canadians. For example, here is a quote from Toronto to Edinburgh:
Outbound $434.99 (3-5 days in transit)
Return $354.99 (2-4 business days in transit)
I shipped my clubs one way to Dornoch from New Jersey last year. The cost was $275 US. It was only one way because I was leaving here.
I could have brought them over for free with BA, but there were so many bags being delayed or lost last year that I chose to pay the price.
Shipsticks was great. The place I dropped my bag off at didn’t give it to DHL when they came in. Shipsticks proactively called my to ask if I’d dropped them off yet. I told them I did and that my AirTag showed they were still sitting there. They made sure DHL picked them up and rushed them so that they actually got to Dornoch three days earlier than originally promised.
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It only takes one golf trip ruined by the airline to make the added expense of shipping seem like peanuts. I was on a trip with a guy to Scotland a few years back that had his clubs “misplaced” at Heathrow. The entire 8 days of the trip his clubs chased us. Always getting to the hotel just after we left. He finally got them after our final round. The topper was his clubs didn’t make it back to the US with him! ;D
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I have also heard that traces of fertilizer in the dirt on your golf clubs, bag towel, shoes or bag can trigger a security inspection that may delay your golf bag making your flight. Not a bad idea to make sure everything is clean.