I wonder what McIlroy will make of this, having been one of the few players willing to really argue the Tour's corner?
I wonder what McIlroy will make of this, having been one of the few players willing to really argue the Tour's corner?
I wonder what McIlroy will make of this, having been one of the few players willing to really argue the Tour's corner?
Had to check my calendar to make sure it wan't an April Fools day headlineThat's hilarious because I thought the same thing. April Fool's Day. ???
[size=2.5rem][color=var(--color-content-primary,#121212)]PGA Tour and LIV Golf to Merge
Link to NY Times story
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/06/sports/golf/pga-liv-merger.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20230606&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta®i_id=93307045&segment_id=134820&user_id=dce87bf08174db0af4d0c174404106ec (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/06/sports/golf/pga-liv-merger.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20230606&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta®i_id=93307045&segment_id=134820&user_id=dce87bf08174db0af4d0c174404106ec)[/color][/size][/i]
Is this merger a result of the performance of Brooks Koepka in the last two majors? Was the PGA Tour afraid he's going to continue to win majors, thus validating the LIV Tour?I disagree. The thing that the needed to validate LIV golf was anyone giving a damn about the LIV golf tournaments. And that wasn't happening with a few exceptions, like in Australia. No one really cared about what happened on the course and you would need that to validate the sports-washing objective of the Saudi PIF.
| [/size]9/11 Families United is urging the Justice Department to investigate alleged FARA violations related to LIV Golf. | Rebecca Blackwell/AP Photo[/size][/color][/size][/font][/font][/color] |
| [/size][/color]In a story that shocked the sports and political worlds alike, this morning, the PGA Tour and LIV Golf league announced a merger deal, ending a bitter and controversial feud between the competing organizations. The headline news: “PGA Tour agrees to merge with Saudi-backed rival LIV Golf,” (https://go.politicoemail.com/?qs=8fbbd315565978c2ddb46f0abcf4e1b8c3e7aa01cb73734ae0f6c43cb4535d506a12825d6ed79cf957c786c659353b7a) by CNBC’s Lillian Rizzo The relevant details: “LIV Golf is backed by the Saudi Arabia Public Investment Fund, an entity controlled by the Saudi crown prince and has been embroiled in antitrust lawsuits with the PGA Tour in the last year. The deal announced Tuesday would end all pending litigation. … Critics of LIV have also accused PIF of ‘sportswashing’ by using the league to distract from the kingdom’s history of human rights violations.” But even before this morning’s blockbuster news dropped, some of the LIV tour’s opponents were already planning to ratchet up the scrutiny of the organization and its ties to the Saudi government … FIRST IN PLAYBOOK —[/font] This morning, 9/11 Families United National Chair TERRY STRADA sent a letter to the Justice Department requesting an investigation into Saudi Arabian foreign agents for alleged violations of the Foreign Agents Registration Act. The group urges DOJ to look into “numerous disturbing violations,” accusing a number of U.S. consultants paid by the Saudi government of failing to register under FARA, [/color]citing reporting by our colleagues Caitlin Oprysko and Hailey Fuchs (https://go.politicoemail.com/?qs=8fbbd315565978c2127d75d3df8857583ebc5d2daf3c9de56da0976e8bff585d7a1201492bc3053781cc0d1322d72c7b). (Read (https://go.politicoemail.com/?qs=8fbbd315565978c256da862c8bf66fe82dbcf472dff7765878097ce0bee977b45a5c3f6a62004122a4aadbd0aa1937ef) more (https://go.politicoemail.com/?qs=8fbbd315565978c28e5961a64bfd07e5671100c94aff6939b0ffaca0ec01b940a4814152bc1ed38bea66ac41319b7697) coverage (https://go.politicoemail.com/?qs=8fbbd315565978c2a273cd8e49fca6ecdfc1885b79599ec60ad4b30caa1fa051bfdd87f2c442aa092e20fb1f7481ca4b) from Caitlin in POLITICO Influence) “We do not view this issue as one of ‘technical violations’ of a statute,” the letter reads. “We are Americans who have suffered at the hands of foreign terrorists and have spent more than two decades trying to hold those terrorists’ funders and supporters to account. Throughout this time, we have seen foreign agents work against us — some of them disclosed, some of them not.” Read the full letter (https://go.politicoemail.com/?qs=8fbbd315565978c2fbccdc7059a8bbd8e14b1862ab99174837ccfa9d20086fb7885b2a0a5103708e5868d644fa7014e1) Strada’s husband, Tom, was killed in the Sept. 11 terrorist attack on the World Trade Center’s North Tower. She has been an outspoken opponent of the Saudi-backed LIV Golf league, including when DONALD TRUMP — who has been a vocal supporter of the LIV offshoot — recently hosted the organization at his Virginia golf course (https://go.politicoemail.com/?qs=8fbbd315565978c2af32d78762b5ffc74282fe0ab52ae84888f6e5c6faca0efca81080bba9a1773419393f2ff610a763). In a statement released this afternoon, Strada blasted the reported deal: “PGA Commissioner JAY MONAHAN co-opted the 9/11 community last year in the PGA’s unequivocal agreement that the Saudi LIV project was nothing more than sportswashing of Saudi Arabia’s reputation. But now the PGA and Monahan appear to have become just more paid Saudi shills, taking billions of dollars to cleanse the Saudi reputation so that Americans and the world will forget how the Kingdom spent their billions of dollars before 9/11 to fund terrorism, spread their vitriolic hatred, and finance al Qaeda and the murder of our loved ones. Make no mistake — we will never forget.” The LIV league did not respond to a request for comment. Trump the fortune teller: In a post on Truth Social from July 2022 (https://go.politicoemail.com/?qs=8fbbd315565978c29dc0102a6b8a2c30302455817a0304cfb4065da719b774c0dcc03c115a1c3e97dd5a436bf4520a3d), Trump predicted today’s news. “All of those golfers that remain ‘loyal’ to the very disloyal PGA, in all of its different forms, will pay a big price when the inevitable MERGER with LIV comes, and you get nothing but a big ‘thank you’ from PGA officials who are making Millions of Dollars a year. If you don’t take the money now, you will get nothing after the merger takes place,” he posted. Here’s Trump’s take today (https://go.politicoemail.com/?qs=8fbbd315565978c2c4d4b7c9376cc4705821af9fce16c0a1e243c8cedcfc87a9c633d4613efc0f78e298bb32dd18fd70): “GREAT NEWS FROM LIV GOLF. A BIG, BEAUTIFUL, AND GLAMOROUS DEAL FOR THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF GOLF. CONGRATS TO ALL!!!” |
Is this merger a result of the performance of Brooks Koepka in the last two majors? Was the PGA Tour afraid he's going to continue to win majors, thus validating the LIV Tour?I disagree. The thing that the needed to validate LIV golf was anyone giving a damn about the LIV golf tournaments. And that wasn't happening with a few exceptions, like in Australia. No one really cared about what happened on the course and you would need that to validate the sports-washing objective of the Saudi PIF.
But it sounds like they decided to throw in another Billion or two and buy the PGA Tour and European Tour.
Is there any posbbility that the PGA tour policy board says no? There are 11 members - five business execs, five tour players, and a direct from the PGA of America.
You have to think that a lot of PGA tour members are very pissed off right now. I would love to be at the meeting in Toronto this afternoon.
I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........
I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........On what basis would a pundit have to resign? They are paid for their opinion… and their opinion about the Saudis is still correct.
I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........
Honestly, I haven’t been a fan of how Brandel has covered some things. But I like Brandel himself.
I hope he comes in today a rips this, standing by his guns. He’d probably lose his job, but it would say a lot about him
I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........On what basis would a pundit have to resign? They are paid for their opinion… and their opinion about the Saudis is still correct.
Maybe you should direct your ire towards the rampant hypocrisy of Tour Leadership in allowing the Saudis to truly realize their goal of ‘sport washing’ using the PGA Tour’s Legacy and Reputation.
If Brandel Chamblee comes in and mumbles some kind words about LIV/PIF you can call him a hypocrite. The fact Golf Channel has not put him on since the announcement says something.
I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........
Honestly, I haven’t been a fan of how Brandel has covered some things. But I like Brandel himself.
I hope he comes in today a rips this, standing by his guns. He’d probably lose his job, but it would say a lot about him
I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........
Honestly, I haven’t been a fan of how Brandel has covered some things. But I like Brandel himself.
I hope he comes in today a rips this, standing by his guns. He’d probably lose his job, but it would say a lot about him
You know Pat, I was thinking the same thing. I don't think he stands down and it wouldn't surprise me if he retired. He's been pretty passionate about his feelings for LIV. I don't see how he keeps the job even if the Saudi's are minority owners of the tour.
No lawsuits keeps the pga tour from having the govt looking even deeper into anti-trust issues.
No lawsuits keeps the pga tour from having the govt looking even deeper into anti-trust issues.
I understand what you're saying Pat, but if the PGA Tour was bordering on a monopoly before, how could a merged version be anything other than a monopoly?
I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........
My initial reaction: I'm done with the "tours," all of them. Time will tell. Right now the details aren't there, but just mixing with the House of Saud is enough to turn me off.
My initial reaction: I'm done with the "tours," all of them. Time will tell. Right now the details aren't there, but just mixing with the House of Saud is enough to turn me off.
We are all mixed with the House of Saud. That much was painfully obvious a loooooong time ago.
Ciao
And the loser again will be the World Golf Fan.
My initial reaction: I'm done with the "tours," all of them. Time will tell. Right now the details aren't there, but just mixing with the House of Saud is enough to turn me off.
We are all mixed with the House of Saud. That much was painfully obvious a loooooong time ago.
Ciao
Very true
Well I for one am anxious to read what the following folks have to say about the merger all for very different reasons:.
1. Jack Nicklaus - not always correct, but always has an opinion
2. Rory - he was the face of the PGA Tour post LIV
3. John Rahm - lets everyone know what he's thinking
4. Tiger - he was the spokesman/elder statesman of the PGA TOUR post LIV
5. The Rank & File Touring Professionals outside of the top 50 on all of the Tours. Is it a cash grab for the cream of the crop or is the wealth shared?
if you were on the Titanic with Jay and there was one seat left in the lifeboat how do you think you would fare? He is elevated to the front row of the scumbag Hall of Fame. :o ::) ???
"This partially explains the 1,000,000 barrels of oil per day cutback announced by Saudi Arabia yesterday. Pro golfers making money off the cost of gasoline and all those who fill their tanks." Pete PittockSteve,
I'm seriously looking into a hybrid or EV in light of Phoenix AZ high prices now at about $4.50/gallon. Luckily, I don't live in CA.
LIV had mountains of chips and none of the cards. And Jay folded ... probably with a full house.
I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........
Honestly, I haven’t been a fan of how Brandel has covered some things. But I like Brandel himself.
I hope he comes in today a rips this, standing by his guns. He’d probably lose his job, but it would say a lot about him
As a Phiiadelphia Congressman once said, " Money talks and BS walks"
I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........
As a Phiiadelphia Congressman once said, " Money talks and BS walks"
Well I for one am anxious to read what the following folks have to say about the merger all for very different reasons:.
1. Jack Nicklaus - not always correct, but always has an opinion
2. Rory - he was the face of the PGA Tour post LIV
3. John Rahm - lets everyone know what he's thinking
4. Tiger - he was the spokesman/elder statesman of the PGA TOUR post LIV
5. The Rank & File Touring Professionals outside of the top 50 on all of the Tours. Is it a cash grab for the cream of the crop or is the wealth shared?
Nicklaus endorsed Comrade Trumpsky in the last election and designed one of his courses. He is tickled pink and is as big a scumbag as the SPGA commissioner. :o
I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........
Honestly, I haven’t been a fan of how Brandel has covered some things. But I like Brandel himself.
I hope he comes in today a rips this, standing by his guns. He’d probably lose his job, but it would say a lot about him
George,
You are smarter than this.
Pat,
Brandel did just that. He's got a spine.
Thats funny I was thinking just the opposite... Interested to hear what's your thoughts along those lines.
I cant see how it can be anything but positive for golf fans themselves, you can now see all your favorite players on any and all franchises again, wherever they choose to play, just like it was.
Hi Tom,if you were on the Titanic with Jay and there was one seat left in the lifeboat how do you think you would fare? He is elevated to the front row of the scumbag Hall of Fame. :o ::) ???
But I can’t say I’m surprised; there has been so much hypocrisy all along, and in the end they don’t care about the provenance of their $$$ after all. My only surprise was to hear of Jimmy Dunne’s involvement in the deal.
Hi Tom,if you were on the Titanic with Jay and there was one seat left in the lifeboat how do you think you would fare? He is elevated to the front row of the scumbag Hall of Fame. :o ::) ???
But I can’t say I’m surprised; there has been so much hypocrisy all along, and in the end they don’t care about the provenance of their $$$ after all. My only surprise was to hear of Jimmy Dunne’s involvement in the deal.
Are you at liberty to share, in a high-level, generalization sort of way, how Jimmy Dunne was involved/consulted, or even had a valued opinion he shared that influenced this decision? And in a non-incriminating way, what that might have been, without getting into specifics or territorial land mine topical areas?
No problem if not. I totally understand.
He's not on the PGA Tour board, is he? If so, well, there's that.
Monahan and his people must have been petrified over discovery and the discovery depositions coming up in the anti-trust suits.With respect to discovery, it's important to note the predicament the Tour had put essentially all of its partners in. In addition to the entities themselves, the primary contacts for all parties the Tour does business with are forced to respond to discovery and/or be deposed in connection with the suit.
I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........
I wish. Probably not. Now they will shill for the new merger. Whores.
I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........
I wish. Probably not. Now they will shill for the new merger. Whores.
I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........
I wish. Probably not. Now they will shill for the new merger. Whores.
That's rich. Apparently, hearing and reading comprehension isn't your strongest suit. Between Chamblee, Diaz, Lerner and Lynch, all have spent the last 20+ hours speaking their mind and standing by their principles. They've reported the facts and haven't strayed into the world of appeasement, nor moral capitulation. Not a position Jay Monahan or Phil Mickelson can lay claim to.
PS. This was, and is, an acquisition......not a merger. So many 2nd derivative issues remain to be resolved. Golf will stay on the front pages for a good long time.
Even if the PGA Tour won all of the lawsuits, which I think it likely would have, that would not have been the end of LIV. LIV could continue competing with the tour and luring away big names as long as the Saudis would be willing to throw hundreds of millions of dollars at it. Rather than continuing that battle, which economically would likely not be winnable for the PGA Tour, the PGA Tour caved in to what I would guess was a crazy amount of money to in effect let the Saudis buy the tour.
Those of you who thought Chamblee and the other talking heads would wimp out, note that have stuck to their guns and remain critical of the Saudi's, their money and this deal.
Antitrust is going to be a big hurdle in this. Players lose the freedom of movement that LIV briefly gave them. The new outfit is effectively a monopoly. That could bring the whole deal down.
I'm also not sure where this 'shill' narrative is coming from.
I watched several hours of golf channel coverage yesterday and today, and there was only one guy defending the move and was roundly disagreed with and counter-pointed by everyone else on the broadcast.
I also don't think the PIF was in for the long run of big losses. Rich Lerner spoke to a contact fairly high up in the LIV org who told him going past 2023 was already looking very dodgy given the lack of corporate sponsors, viewership, and poor traction in general.
“All of those golfers that remain ‘loyal’ to the very disloyal PGA,” Trump wrote in an online post last summer, “will pay a big price when the inevitable merger with LIV comes, and you get nothing but a big ‘thank you’ from PGA officials.” Now Trump stands to benefit (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/newsletter/CyEfp0BklqlNnqein0XmfQ~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmYuNkP0TkaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMy8wNi8wNi91cy9wb2xpdGljcy90cnVtcC1saXYtZ29sZi1zYXVkaS1hcmFiaWEuaHRtbD9jYW1wYWlnbl9pZD05JmVtYz1lZGl0X25uXzIwMjMwNjA3Jmluc3RhbmNlX2lkPTk0NDIyJm5sPXRoZS1tb3JuaW5nJnJlZ2lfaWQ9MTU4ODQzMzEmc2VnbWVudF9pZD0xMzQ4OTImdGU9MSZ1c2VyX2lkPThjMjFkZThlYmJmOGNlOWMwZjBjOGMwNWQ1MmQ0YjJiVwNueXRCCmR4ZF6AZOGU3Q9SEXN0ZXZlOHhAeWFob28uY29tWAQAAAAA) from the merger. The PGA Tour suddenly seems more likely to hold events at his courses. |
This is the best post of them all.
Good for golf fans. Once again, the best players in the world will compete against each other.
Good for professionals as purses will grow.
Good for competition, as the tour can experiment with new formats and team play.
Good for the golf press. Controversy make great stories.
Unfortunate that some Tour players feel bad because they missed an opportunity for big bucks, but they won’t starve.
Tour leadership is left looking bad, agreeing to merge after a year long PR smear campaign against LIV.
Judging from the reactions from rank-and-file fans in a few comment sections with much lower golf IQs than this one, it seems like plenty of people think the same thing, at least right now.Sucking up to this board, Jake? I'm as "rank-and-file" as there is here. I'll take MY "golf IQ" over any other poster.
Judging from the reactions from rank-and-file fans in a few comment sections with much lower golf IQs than this one, it seems like plenty of people think the same thing, at least right now.Sucking up to this board, Jake? I'm as "rank-and-file" as there is here. I'll take MY "golf IQ" over any other poster.
As far as PROFESSIONAL golf (to paraphrase an old quote), I wouldn't watch/care about it if it happened in my driveway.
PIF owns LIV - not sure how very different…
The Tour started hemorrhaging sponjulics
This is the comment from Monahan that stood out:
"I recognize that people are going to call me a hypocrite. … I accept those criticisms. But circumstances do change."
So what chamged?...Did the regime suddenly take full responsibility for 9/11? the Khashoggi assasination? Commit to an immediate change in human rights. No! None of this was mentioned by Monahan.
So what changed?
From today's NYT:Surprise, the Antichrist got it right. Now he can watch it from his prison cell.
One of the few people who accurately predicted the outcome of this saga was Donald Trump, who remains close to Saudi officials and whose clubs hosted several LIV events.
From today's NYT:Surprise, the Antichrist got it right. Now he can watch it from his prison cell.
One of the few people who accurately predicted the outcome of this saga was Donald Trump, who remains close to Saudi officials and whose clubs hosted several LIV events.
From today's NYT:Surprise, the Antichrist got it right. Now he can watch it from his prison cell.
One of the few people who accurately predicted the outcome of this saga was Donald Trump, who remains close to Saudi officials and whose clubs hosted several LIV events.
I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?
From today's NYT:Surprise, the Antichrist got it right. Now he can watch it from his prison cell.
One of the few people who accurately predicted the outcome of this saga was Donald Trump, who remains close to Saudi officials and whose clubs hosted several LIV events.
I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?
Slippery slope, best to be avoided in this forum.
George,
You are smarter than this.
Monahan and his people must have been petrified over discovery and the discovery depositions coming up in the anti-trust suits.I think it was just getting very, very expensive. I've heard they've already racked up $50M in legal fees, and it's got many months (years) left. When your opposition has effectively unlimited funds… they could bleed the PGA Tour dry.
Professional golf just let a lot more foxes in the hen house. We can only pray they survive it.And Gary Player to whip them all into shape!
I heard a somewhat interesting bit on the radio today about how Saudi Arabia, as a country, recognizes they need to diversify their economy.
I guess Saudi Arabia has a looming health crisis on their hands. It's a very sedentary culture, a lot of obesity, diabetes, and heart disease.
So, golf addresses both of these issues. Pry your way into a different business venture, all the while investing in a sport that can serve as a way to get their people up and moving.
Who's going to be the signature architect of the Saudi Royal Family, I wonder? Paging Greg Norman!!!
With Al-Rumayyan as Chairman of the new commercial entity wouldn’t he be able to fire Monahan as CEO? If I’m a bettor I would say a clash will ensue between the two of them.Technically the board would have to fire Monahan, not just the Chairman. But the Chairman often can shove around the board members.
Can the volunteers that work PGA events finally organize and get paid like everyone else? Given the new profit motive what are you really doing but saving the Saudis money.
I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........
Honestly, I haven’t been a fan of how Brandel has covered some things. But I like Brandel himself.
I hope he comes in today a rips this, standing by his guns. He’d probably lose his job, but it would say a lot about him
I don't know Brandel at all, only through occasional viewings of GC, but to say I haven't been of fan of how he's covered some things would be quite an understatement for me. To call him sanctimonious would be an insult to sanctimonious people. To call him a pretentious know-it-all would be an insult to pretentious know-it-alls.
To call him....
Well, you get the picture. I don't know how he doesn't resign immediately, assuming he has any sort of conscience. I do know I wouldn't walk into any Saudi embassies, if I were him.
I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........
Honestly, I haven’t been a fan of how Brandel has covered some things. But I like Brandel himself.
I hope he comes in today a rips this, standing by his guns. He’d probably lose his job, but it would say a lot about him
I don't know Brandel at all, only through occasional viewings of GC, but to say I haven't been of fan of how he's covered some things would be quite an understatement for me. To call him sanctimonious would be an insult to sanctimonious people. To call him a pretentious know-it-all would be an insult to pretentious know-it-alls.
To call him....
Well, you get the picture. I don't know how he doesn't resign immediately, assuming he has any sort of conscience. I do know I wouldn't walk into any Saudi embassies, if I were him.
I'm struggling to see why you think Brandel should resign.
The one who should resign("if he has a concience") is Jay Monahan REGARDLESS of whether or not this is a good(or more likely desperate) decision for the Tour.
If for no other reason than the money that was left on the table for players who heeded his warnings/advice and stayed loyal.
Interesting that Norman kicked his arse, yet Monahan is still in while Norman is nudged aside.
Surely this move emboldenes future wanna be competitors to this tour.
All his threats/promises were empty.
Consequences for defecting?-nope
Moral high ground? Nope-funny how that changes when they cut you in.
His double talk "empirical" "framework" jibberish press conference was embarrassing.
Clearly it is not the players tour with three suits making deals the players find out about afterwards.
In other golf news I carded 88 today with a triple at the last.
Bogey
I guess not. Did I miss something while working, did Brandel resign? That's the only way I'd say he stood by his guns. Criticising from within isn't standing by your guns, imho, but as another poster on this very thread used to say, that's just my opinion, your mileage may vary.
All I said from the beginning was, it's professional golf. It's not life or death. All of us have had much more experience with life or death than pro golf.
Having said that, I would caution Brandel not to walk into any Saudi embassies.....
While I don't really care about Brandel Chamblee one way or another, I'm not sure I follow your logic here. The Golf Channel isn't owned by the PGA Tour.The PGA Tour could say something like - unless you get rid of Brandel we are going to make your life difficult. Sure you still have several years left on your contract with us, but we will strictly follow the letter of the law on the contract and cut back access to players, facilities, etc, unless it is specifically allowed in the contract. And when the contract is up there is zero chance that we will renew it with you. And we will put pressure on Comcast, your corporate owner, as well.
Who's going to be the signature architect of the Saudi Royal Family, I wonder? Paging Greg Norman!!!
George,
You are smarter than this.
I guess not. Did I miss something while working, did Brandel resign? That's the only way I'd say he stood by his guns. Criticising from within isn't standing by your guns, imho, but as another poster on this very thread used to say, that's just my opinion, your mileage may vary.
All I said from the beginning was, it's professional golf. It's not life or death. All of us have had much more experience with life or death than pro golf.
Having said that, I would caution Brandel not to walk into any Saudi embassies.....
I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........
Honestly, I haven’t been a fan of how Brandel has covered some things. But I like Brandel himself.
I hope he comes in today a rips this, standing by his guns. He’d probably lose his job, but it would say a lot about him
I don't know Brandel at all, only through occasional viewings of GC, but to say I haven't been of fan of how he's covered some things would be quite an understatement for me. To call him sanctimonious would be an insult to sanctimonious people. To call him a pretentious know-it-all would be an insult to pretentious know-it-alls.
To call him....
Well, you get the picture. I don't know how he doesn't resign immediately, assuming he has any sort of conscience. I do know I wouldn't walk into any Saudi embassies, if I were him.
I'm struggling to see why you think Brandel should resign.
The one who should resign("if he has a concience") is Jay Monahan REGARDLESS of whether or not this is a good(or more likely desperate) decision for the Tour.
If for no other reason than the money that was left on the table for players who heeded his warnings/advice and stayed loyal.
Interesting that Norman kicked his arse, yet Monahan is still in while Norman is nudged aside.
Surely this move emboldenes future wanna be competitors to this tour.
All his threats/promises were empty.
Consequences for defecting?-nope
Moral high ground? Nope-funny how that changes when they cut you in.
His double talk "empirical" "framework" jibberish press conference was embarrassing.
Clearly it is not the players tour with three suits making deals the players find out about afterwards.
I guess all those Golf Channel pundits who ripped LIV as immoral human rights violators will be resigning their jobs now..........
Honestly, I haven’t been a fan of how Brandel has covered some things. But I like Brandel himself.
I hope he comes in today a rips this, standing by his guns. He’d probably lose his job, but it would say a lot about him
I don't know Brandel at all, only through occasional viewings of GC, but to say I haven't been of fan of how he's covered some things would be quite an understatement for me. To call him sanctimonious would be an insult to sanctimonious people. To call him a pretentious know-it-all would be an insult to pretentious know-it-alls.
To call him....
Well, you get the picture. I don't know how he doesn't resign immediately, assuming he has any sort of conscience. I do know I wouldn't walk into any Saudi embassies, if I were him.
I'm struggling to see why you think Brandel should resign.
The one who should resign("if he has a concience") is Jay Monahan REGARDLESS of whether or not this is a good(or more likely desperate) decision for the Tour.
If for no other reason than the money that was left on the table for players who heeded his warnings/advice and stayed loyal.
Interesting that Norman kicked his arse, yet Monahan is still in while Norman is nudged aside.
Surely this move emboldenes future wanna be competitors to this tour.
All his threats/promises were empty.
Consequences for defecting?-nope
Moral high ground? Nope-funny how that changes when they cut you in.
His double talk "empirical" "framework" jibberish press conference was embarrassing.
Clearly it is not the players tour with three suits making deals the players find out about afterwards.
Jeff, As a Pro in the metro area and from previous posts I know you knew people who died on 9/11. I did not. I’ve read numerous articles about Jimmy Dunne. If he wasn’t playing golf that day he probably would be dead along side 66 of his employees. I realize I indirectly due business with the Saudi’s everyday. We all do. But his involvement in this deal is dumbfounding to me. He wouldn’t let LIV players play in the Seminole best ball this year but he helps put this deal together? I wonder how he can look at himself in the mirror.
Hi Tom,
Are you at liberty to share, in a high-level, generalization sort of way, how Jimmy Dunne was involved/consulted, or even had a valued opinion he shared that influenced this decision? And in a non-incriminating way, what that might have been, without getting into specifics or territorial land mine topical areas?
No problem if not. I totally understand.
He's not on the PGA Tour board, is he? If so, well, there's that.
I also have to think that Koepka's success had at least a minor role in this.
I also have to think that Koepka's success had at least a minor role in this.
Jeff-I thought the same thing about Koepka’s last two Major performances. A second at the Masters and a win at the PGA was Monahan and the Tour’s worst nightmare. Further I don’t necessarily believe the seven week timeline for the negotiations that was described by the people that made the deal.
Bobby Axelrod is loosely based on Steve Cohen, not Jimmy Dunne.Thank you for the correction.
If you were the PGA TOUR, why would you risk your entire existence in legal discovery?
While I don't really care about Brandel Chamblee one way or another, I'm not sure I follow your logic here. The Golf Channel isn't owned by the PGA Tour.The PGA Tour could say something like - unless you get rid of Brandel we are going to make your life difficult. Sure you still have several years left on your contract with us, but we will strictly follow the letter of the law on the contract and cut back access to players, facilities, etc, unless it is specifically allowed in the contract. And when the contract is up there is zero chance that we will renew it with you. And we will put pressure on Comcast, your corporate owner, as well.
George,
You are smarter than this.
I guess not. Did I miss something while working, did Brandel resign? That's the only way I'd say he stood by his guns. Criticising from within isn't standing by your guns, imho, but as another poster on this very thread used to say, that's just my opinion, your mileage may vary.
All I said from the beginning was, it's professional golf. It's not life or death. All of us have had much more experience with life or death than pro golf.
Having said that, I would caution Brandel not to walk into any Saudi embassies.....
While I don't really care about Brandel Chamblee one way or another, I'm not sure I follow your logic here. The Golf Channel isn't owned by the PGA Tour.The PGA Tour could say something like - unless you get rid of Brandel we are going to make your life difficult. Sure you still have several years left on your contract with us, but we will strictly follow the letter of the law on the contract and cut back access to players, facilities, etc, unless it is specifically allowed in the contract. And when the contract is up there is zero chance that we will renew it with you. And we will put pressure on Comcast, your corporate owner, as well.
If you were the PGA TOUR, why would you risk your entire existence in legal discovery?
If you are a golfer trying to reach the pinnacle of the game by qualifying for the US Open, why DQ yourself for fixing an aeration hole that nobody saw?
Call me naive, but I have always seen golf as being different from all other sports because it put integrity above winning.
I would rather see the PGA run itself into bankrupt nonexistence in an impossible fight against infinite Saudi wealth than make the “smart business decision” and capitulate. I hope the players revolt.
“But at the same time, I think it's weird that twenty-two years later, that is all now the fault of the Saudis. No President has ever even suggested such a thing. We have looked the other way, with laser focus.”
Tom, not so. Look it up.
Good for golf fans. Once again, the best players in the world will compete against each other.
Maybe- They already did at the majors, and not sure how often they will now anyway.
It remains to be seen what will be produced, what formats, and if fans are looking for what they are describing. Very few even bothered to watch LIV, so why are we clamoring for what they may or may not bring to the table?
Good for professionals as purses will grow.
Perhaps purses will grow-it again remains to be seen it's it's good for professional golf.
Reputations and integrity have a worth as well.
Also, now that there is a monopoly again, it may not be so good for players, or at least some.
I was listening to a host on SiriusXM talking about how great it would be to see, and many more would watch, the top 50 players in the world competing in a $50 million event.
Do people really watch more because of the purse?
I guess I'm a geek but I'd rather watch the Top 50 on a great course for a smaller purse, than a TPC Waterclad mess for $50 million. Don't a lot of people watch the Ryder Cup where's there's no purse?
Good for competition, as the tour can experiment with new formats and team play.
Maybe-if you're into that sort've thing. Did anyone watch New Orleans?but I'll give you the RC is fun to watch-a steady diet? maybe...
Good for the golf press. Controversy make great stories.
100%-already has been-I for one am sooooo glad our show is NOT live this week as we taped last Friday(our producer is on vacation this week) I prefer to stick to instruction and there's no chance I could say anything on air that hasn't already been said by Saturday. Ironically, my show co-host David Armitage had a meeting with Norman literally minutes after we taped last Friday.
Unfortunate that some Tour players feel bad because they missed an opportunity for big bucks, but they won’t starve.
Very true, and Monahan should resign over this, even if he was painted into his own corner. There are winners and losers-he can't be rewarded as a winner after his two year stance then capitulation.
Tour leadership is left looking bad, agreeing to merge after a year long PR smear campaign against LIV.
Yes they are, and leading a failed strategy should not result in enrichment for leaders of such strategy-even if Monahan had no good choices at any point
“But at the same time, I think it's weird that twenty-two years later, that is all now the fault of the Saudis. No President has ever even suggested such a thing. We have looked the other way, with laser focus.”
Tom, not so. Look it up.
There have been suggestions, but to date I have yet to see definitive proof the Saudi "government" was responsible. If you have such evidence, please forward it to me. For personal reasons I would like this question definitely settled.
Ciao
Maybe…..more than a suggestion“But at the same time, I think it's weird that twenty-two years later, that is all now the fault of the Saudis. No President has ever even suggested such a thing. We have looked the other way, with laser focus.”
Tom, not so. Look it up.
There have been suggestions, but to date I have yet to see definitive proof the Saudi "government" was responsible. If you have such evidence, please forward it to me. For personal reasons I would like this question definitely settled.
Ciao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuGpOk6Rh9k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuGpOk6Rh9k)
I was waiting for tour player reactions to the news. As usual, McIlroy stepped up-in person. Good on him.
He acknowledged the deal may be beneficial to the professional golfer, but refrained from saying it "was good for golf."
Frankly, does this news change your golf viewing habits, your next tee time, or your affection for playing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuGpOk6Rh9k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuGpOk6Rh9k)
I was waiting for tour player reactions to the news. As usual, McIlroy stepped up-in person. Good on him.
He acknowledged the deal may be beneficial to the professional golfer, but refrained from saying it "was good for golf."
Frankly, does this news change your golf viewing habits, your next tee time, or your affection for playing?
No. I don't believe it has any effect on the game either. As for pros, in the short term it helps some and hurts others. Long term, who knows.
Ciao
PS...In full disclosure, he's a partner of mine in a soon-to-be launched golf entertainment company. I know, and respect, him quite a bit.
Maybe…..more than a suggestion“But at the same time, I think it's weird that twenty-two years later, that is all now the fault of the Saudis. No President has ever even suggested such a thing. We have looked the other way, with laser focus.”
Tom, not so. Look it up.
There have been suggestions, but to date I have yet to see definitive proof the Saudi "government" was responsible. If you have such evidence, please forward it to me. For personal reasons I would like this question definitely settled.
Ciao
https://www.npr.org/2021/09/12/1036389448/biden-declassifies-secret-fbi-report-detailing-saudi-nationals-connections-to-9- (https://www.npr.org/2021/09/12/1036389448/biden-declassifies-secret-fbi-report-detailing-saudi-nationals-connections-to-9-)
PS...In full disclosure, he's a partner of mine in a soon-to-be launched golf entertainment company. I know, and respect, him quite a bit.
I'm happy to hear this. And I'll admit, I'm harder on Brandel than he likely deserves.
-----
For the handful of posters who ask why I feel Brandel (and others, I don't recall him being the only one) should resign, my logic is simple (though that doesn't mean it's right, I have no problem with those who disagree, this is a discussion site, after all):
My recollection is that he has made it quite clear that anyone involved with the Saudis in any fashion is taking blood money. While Golf Channel is not owned by the PGA Tour, they will be quite clearly fully in business with the Saudis, assuming this goes through and they maintain their relationship with the new entity. Brandel does not do much other golf-related things like instruction, history, architecture, etc (at least not that I've seen, though I will also admit I don't watch much anymore). He is paid to comment on the pro game. He will be intimately involved in working with the Saudis.
Now, I don't care about that. But he has been pretty clear that he does. If he were an independent person - podcaster, writer, whatever - I'd say he'd be well within his sphere to continue his punditry. To work for GC and be involved with their intimate relationship with pro golf, I think he's doing the very thing he has been quite mercilessly calling out others for doing.
As for the whole big thing, the world's got more than 99 real problems, and Saudis pouring money into pro golf ain't one of 'em......
:)
Again, what has Brandel done to warrant resignation since this was announced?
No one even knows what the deal entails. (a "framework" agreement-what a bullshit way to say nothing other than we've lost and made a decision for you)
If he is asked to glorify the Saudi regime or comment positively on the golf events and sponsors, perhaps then he would out of protest.
He works for The Golf Channel, not the PGA Tour or the new entity-at least for the moment.
Can we keep the Newsmax talking points off this thread?From today's NYT:Surprise, the Antichrist got it right. Now he can watch it from his prison cell.
One of the few people who accurately predicted the outcome of this saga was Donald Trump, who remains close to Saudi officials and whose clubs hosted several LIV events.
I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?
Maybe…..more than a suggestion“But at the same time, I think it's weird that twenty-two years later, that is all now the fault of the Saudis. No President has ever even suggested such a thing. We have looked the other way, with laser focus.”
Tom, not so. Look it up.
There have been suggestions, but to date I have yet to see definitive proof the Saudi "government" was responsible. If you have such evidence, please forward it to me. For personal reasons I would like this question definitely settled.
Ciao
https://www.npr.org/2021/09/12/1036389448/biden-declassifies-secret-fbi-report-detailing-saudi-nationals-connections-to-9- (https://www.npr.org/2021/09/12/1036389448/biden-declassifies-secret-fbi-report-detailing-saudi-nationals-connections-to-9-)
Again, what has Brandel done to warrant resignation since this was announced?
No one even knows what the deal entails. (a "framework" agreement-what a bullshit way to say nothing other than we've lost and made a decision for you)
If he is asked to glorify the Saudi regime or comment positively on the golf events and sponsors, perhaps then he would out of protest.
He works for The Golf Channel, not the PGA Tour or the new entity-at least for the moment.
I don't know if I can explain it more clearly than last time, but I'll try. And I'll concede that I don't know the details of the deal, obviously, or when it will be finalized.
Brandel (and others) have stated that anyone involved with the Saudis is taking blood money. So now the PGA Tour and DP World Tour are taking blood money. Golf Channel has a deal to televise these, so they are now involved with the Saudis. GC pays Brandel (and others). I will also concede that the relationship is not as direct as the LIV golfers and admin. But it's hard for me to see Brandel as independent of the Saudis, even if he continues to criticise them. The company he works for will have direct business relationships with them. As direct as the golfers? No, but I'm not the one calling any of this blood money, the many vocal critics at GC are the ones who have characterized it this way.
I will lastly point out that in my initial post, I did not call out Brandel personally, I spoke more generally, as my recollection is that virtually all of GC's pundits - heck, many PGA players, too - went after Phil, Greg N, etc., very hard as acting immorally. It's hard for me to imagine any of them being involved in this facet of pro golf going forward.
If you were the PGA TOUR, why would you risk your entire existence in legal discovery?
If you are a golfer trying to reach the pinnacle of the game by qualifying for the US Open, why DQ yourself for fixing an aeration hole that nobody saw?
Call me naive, but I have always seen golf as being different from all other sports because it put integrity above winning.
I would rather see the PGA run itself into bankrupt nonexistence in an impossible fight against infinite Saudi wealth than make the “smart business decision” and capitulate. I hope the players revolt.
Did President Biden give a speech on the topic, or even answer a single question about it at a press conference?Ageism used to be ‘Don’t trust anyone over 30’. Now it’s 60+ year olds giving 80+ year olds shit because they're not quite as nimble as they used to be. ;)
Have we suspended diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia? Are we treating them any differently? If we really believe they are responsible, anything less is just the same sort of performative bullcrap that is now the official substitute for actually doing something in this day and age.
Giving him credit for declassifying the intel report [after 20 years] is a very, very low bar. Then again, I can't imagine he could high jump very highly at his age.
The most interesting analysis has been from the business insiders/experts that have taken days to respond rather the golf people that took minutes or hours. There are a significant number of articles from people that study this sort of thing opining that the “merger” portion of this has a snowballs chance of coming to fruition. I tend to agree.Can you provide a link or links to any of this analysis?
What’s more likely is the DoJ still pursues the anti-trust piece of this and the PIF and PGA withdraw the “merger”, LIV dies, and the PGA gets an investor. I don’t see how either entity can risk discovery.
No. If he's involved, so is anyone whose cable provider is Comcast, which owns NBCUniversal, which owns NBC Sports Group, which owns Golf Channel, which televises some PGA Tour tournaments, which will be overseen by a new company invested in and chaired by a Saudi.
No. Doesn't work that way.
Can we keep the Newsmax talking points off this thread?From today's NYT:Surprise, the Antichrist got it right. Now he can watch it from his prison cell.
One of the few people who accurately predicted the outcome of this saga was Donald Trump, who remains close to Saudi officials and whose clubs hosted several LIV events.
I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?
Joe Biden might be old AF but he still got the better of Kevin McCarthy in the debt negotiations.. I guess it all depends with what IQ you started out with...
The reason Trump 'got it right' is that he always presumes that people are similarly motived as him - by pure greed. In this case, Monahan, the investment banker whose headquarters were destroyed in 9/11 and the Saudi's law firm representative on the Tour Board went for the $$$ and hope everyone else does the same.
The most interesting analysis has been from the business insiders/experts that have taken days to respond rather the golf people that took minutes or hours. There are a significant number of articles from people that study this sort of thing opining that the “merger” portion of this has a snowballs chance of coming to fruition. I tend to agree.Can you provide a link or links to any of this analysis?
What’s more likely is the DoJ still pursues the anti-trust piece of this and the PIF and PGA withdraw the “merger”, LIV dies, and the PGA gets an investor. I don’t see how either entity can risk discovery.
Can we keep the Newsmax talking points off this thread?From today's NYT:Surprise, the Antichrist got it right. Now he can watch it from his prison cell.
One of the few people who accurately predicted the outcome of this saga was Donald Trump, who remains close to Saudi officials and whose clubs hosted several LIV events.
I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?
Joe Biden might be old AF but he still got the better of Kevin McCarthy in the debt negotiations.. I guess it all depends with what IQ you started out with...
The reason Trump 'got it right' is that he always presumes that people are similarly motived as him - by pure greed. In this case, Monahan, the investment banker whose headquarters were destroyed in 9/11 and the Saudi's law firm representative on the Tour Board went for the $$$ and hope everyone else does the same.
I always get a laugh at this kind of thing. Yeah, only bad people are motivated by their self interests ... or the big bad "greed." We're all motivated by our self interests .. and hopefully if we're fairly grounded, we can have self interest in serving others as well. Kind of what makes society and the economy work. I'm sure you didn't accept a job for less than you're worth, correct? Maybe you have, I don't know, but I'm guessing if you did, you haven't done it twice ;)
As far as the shot at being "newsmax" - facts are just facts .. they might suck for you, but if you don't think his family is a mob, I don't know what to tell ya .. maybe the sky isn't blue ..
No. If he's involved, so is anyone whose cable provider is Comcast, which owns NBCUniversal, which owns NBC Sports Group, which owns Golf Channel, which televises some PGA Tour tournaments, which will be overseen by a new company invested in and chaired by a Saudi.
No. Doesn't work that way.
A fair take.
Quick question: Why would Brandel or the other critics even want to work commenting on a pro sports league they hold in such contempt?
PM me if you want to debate politics or watch a week of MSNBC or CNN for the truth and not what FOX Noise tells you. President Biden is a decent man and you can't say that about the traitor Comrade Trumpsky. There is a reason the PGA Tour banned tournaments on his courses. At least for now. ::)From today's NYT:Surprise, the Antichrist got it right. Now he can watch it from his prison cell.
One of the few people who accurately predicted the outcome of this saga was Donald Trump, who remains close to Saudi officials and whose clubs hosted several LIV events.
I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?
But with the move to streaming, when the Golf Channel's contract is up in 2030 then everything may be on PGA Tour Live or whatever web streaming service they have at the time.While I don't really care about Brandel Chamblee one way or another, I'm not sure I follow your logic here. The Golf Channel isn't owned by the PGA Tour.The PGA Tour could say something like - unless you get rid of Brandel we are going to make your life difficult. Sure you still have several years left on your contract with us, but we will strictly follow the letter of the law on the contract and cut back access to players, facilities, etc, unless it is specifically allowed in the contract. And when the contract is up there is zero chance that we will renew it with you. And we will put pressure on Comcast, your corporate owner, as well.
Yep. No Tour no Golf Channel.
Ciao
Can we keep the Newsmax talking points off this thread?From today's NYT:Surprise, the Antichrist got it right. Now he can watch it from his prison cell.
One of the few people who accurately predicted the outcome of this saga was Donald Trump, who remains close to Saudi officials and whose clubs hosted several LIV events.
I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?
Joe Biden might be old AF but he still got the better of Kevin McCarthy in the debt negotiations.. I guess it all depends with what IQ you started out with...
The reason Trump 'got it right' is that he always presumes that people are similarly motived as him - by pure greed. In this case, Monahan, the investment banker whose headquarters were destroyed in 9/11 and the Saudi's law firm representative on the Tour Board went for the $$$ and hope everyone else does the same.
I always get a laugh at this kind of thing. Yeah, only bad people are motivated by their self interests ... or the big bad "greed." We're all motivated by our self interests .. and hopefully if we're fairly grounded, we can have self interest in serving others as well. Kind of what makes society and the economy work. I'm sure you didn't accept a job for less than you're worth, correct? Maybe you have, I don't know, but I'm guessing if you did, you haven't done it twice ;)
As far as the shot at being "newsmax" - facts are just facts .. they might suck for you, but if you don't think his family is a mob, I don't know what to tell ya .. maybe the sky isn't blue ..
OK… calm down there Tara Reade…
The ‘facts’ as you describe them are actually thus… There was a ‘whistleblower’ complaint on Biden registered with the Dept. Of Justice. This was investigated by the FBI. As a result of that investigation no further action is being taken. As far as the FBI was concerned it was a nothing-burger. Some Republican Congress-critter decided to make name for himself by demanding access to this investigation. Christopher Wray (Trump appointed director of the FBI) correctly decided that he wouldn’t turn over those documents for the Republicans to use as political capital. When they threatened to hold him in contempt he took a couple of them into a secure room and allowed them to read the investigation summary. They left saying nothing because they - for once - decided not to make even bigger fools of themselves.
Those are the facts Tara… if that doesn’t convince you I suggest you move to Russia or Saudi Arabia and find some ‘alternative’ facts.
PM me if you want to debate politics or watch a week of MSNBC or CNN for the truth and not what FOX Noise tells you. President Biden is a decent man and you can't say that about the traitor Comrade Trumpsky. There is a reason the PGA Tour banned tournaments on his courses. At least for now. ::)From today's NYT:Surprise, the Antichrist got it right. Now he can watch it from his prison cell.
One of the few people who accurately predicted the outcome of this saga was Donald Trump, who remains close to Saudi officials and whose clubs hosted several LIV events.
I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?
I don't know if I can explain it more clearly than last time, but I'll try. And I'll concede that I don't know the details of the deal, obviously, or when it will be finalized.Stretch and a half there, George.
PM me if you want to debate politics or watch a week of MSNBC or CNN for the truth and not what FOX Noise tells you. President Biden is a decent man and you can't say that about the traitor Comrade Trumpsky. There is a reason the PGA Tour banned tournaments on his courses. At least for now. ::)From today's NYT:Surprise, the Antichrist got it right. Now he can watch it from his prison cell.
One of the few people who accurately predicted the outcome of this saga was Donald Trump, who remains close to Saudi officials and whose clubs hosted several LIV events.
I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?
I don't watch Fox, but saying I should watch MSNBC and CNN for the truth is the funniest post of the year!!
The most interesting analysis has been from the business insiders/experts that have taken days to respond rather the golf people that took minutes or hours. There are a significant number of articles from people that study this sort of thing opining that the “merger” portion of this has a snowballs chance of coming to fruition. I tend to agree.Can you provide a link or links to any of this analysis?
What’s more likely is the DoJ still pursues the anti-trust piece of this and the PIF and PGA withdraw the “merger”, LIV dies, and the PGA gets an investor. I don’t see how either entity can risk discovery.
My take on this: The top players who stayed with the PGA have grievences and damagesl They should get together, file a class action suit and demand to be paid by LIV what they were offered or what they are worth, or they will collectively vote against this.
I think it's all going to come crashing down. It won't be tomorrow, and maybe not for another 10, 15 years....No more tour, no more golf on TV. It will be a circus that no one will care about....like the NBA.
My take on this: The top players who stayed with the PGA have grievences and damagesl They should get together, file a class action suit and demand to be paid by LIV what they were offered or what they are worth, or they will collectively vote against this.
The most interesting analysis has been from the business insiders/experts that have taken days to respond rather the golf people that took minutes or hours. There are a significant number of articles from people that study this sort of thing opining that the “merger” portion of this has a snowballs chance of coming to fruition. I tend to agree.Can you provide a link or links to any of this analysis?
What’s more likely is the DoJ still pursues the anti-trust piece of this and the PIF and PGA withdraw the “merger”, LIV dies, and the PGA gets an investor. I don’t see how either entity can risk discovery.
Apparently Ben and I read the some of the same blogs!
The author suggested that the deal was SO CLEARLY a red flag for antitrust issues that perhaps they are hoping to have it stopped. Here's a taste of his view:
By ending the antitrust fight between the PGA Tour and LIV Golf, Saudi PIF emails will remain private. It’s true that there will be a merger challenge, so bad emails could come out if they bring this merger to a trial. But a more likely path is that the DOJ investigates the PGA Tour-LIV deal, the Saudis drop their merger attempt before a trial, and LIV Golf shuts down. There could be some sort of Saudi investment in the PGA Tour later. Meanwhile, everyone gets the headlines now, which obscures the reality that the Saudis don’t want emails made public, and they can blame the Antitrust Division for the collapse of LIV Golf.
😎My take on this: The top players who stayed with the PGA have grievences and damagesl They should get together, file a class action suit and demand to be paid by LIV what they were offered or what they are worth, or they will collectively vote against this.
I thought that they turned down LIV money because it was blood money from the Saudis and they were loyal to the PGA Tour, its history and their fellow players? That's what they said, anyway. What has changed? Their reparations would be coming from the same money source. Maybe they had privately told Monahan that their loyalty came with a price, which they would cash in later.
My take on this: The top players who stayed with the PGA have grievences and damagesl They should get together, file a class action suit and demand to be paid by LIV what they were offered or what they are worth, or they will collectively vote against this.
My take on this: The top players who stayed with the PGA have grievences and damagesl They should get together, file a class action suit and demand to be paid by LIV what they were offered or what they are worth, or they will collectively vote against this.
A suit to recover damages from an unaccepted offer would be laughed out of court.
As for the deal, the 11-person policy board will vote on it, not the entire membership. There are five players on the board, and six others. The players are Cantlay, Hoffman, Malnati, McIlroy and Webb Simpson. McIlroy has already indicated he'd be for it based on the early information. So say the other four players are each a no. Herlihy and Dunne are each a yes. You need two more from the other four: PGA of America's John Lindert, and Mark Flaherty, Mary Meeker and Randall Stephenson, all CEOs, active or retired. Good luck with that.
I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?On the other side of the pond we read nonsense like this and wonder how on Earth a once great democracy has fallen so far.
And yes, we have our own problems, before anyone feels the need to remind me.I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?On the other side of the pond we read nonsense like this and wonder how on Earth a once great democracy has fallen so far.
The PGA has nothing to do with this, btw.
The PGA Tour, on the other hand…
Thanks, Erik! I always appreciate your highly nuanced insights.I'm sure if there was a related but entirely different organization named the ASCGAA or the ACSGA or something, people might be annoyed if their organization was wrongly linked to Saudi Arabia, even if it's just out of ignorance. And no, not everyone knows the difference.
I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?On the other side of the pond we read nonsense like this and wonder how on Earth a once great democracy has fallen so far.
Thanks, Erik! I always appreciate your highly nuanced insights.I'm sure if there was a related but entirely different organization named the ASCGAA or the ACSGA or something, people might be annoyed if their organization was wrongly linked to Saudi Arabia, even if it's just out of ignorance. And no, not everyone knows the difference.
But please, go on with your super-nuanced takes about how a commentator should resign. :P
Thanks, Erik! I always appreciate your highly nuanced insights.I'm sure if there was a related but entirely different organization named the ASCGAA or the ACSGA or something, people might be annoyed if their organization was wrongly linked to Saudi Arabia, even if it's just out of ignorance. And no, not everyone knows the difference.
But please, go on with your super-nuanced takes about how a commentator should resign. :P
George, you can wait and be as moderate as you wish. That will not change the fact that the Saudi's are human rights violators and murderous thugs. The PGA has no spine.
It's a two-party kakistocracy. That's how.I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?On the other side of the pond we read nonsense like this and wonder how on Earth a once great democracy has fallen so far.
I wish everyone would calm down and wait for the details of the agreement to come out before they make judgments.
I wish everyone would calm down and wait for the details of the agreement to come out before they make judgments.
Sorry Jim - No can do. Instead we are going to drag domestic politics into this, turn up our noses and sneer at what a bunch of peasants each other's countries have become, etc.
In the end, just watch the Major tournaments that are not formally associated with the PGA or DP tours.
As far as the shot at being "newsmax" - facts are just facts .. they might suck for you, but if you don't think his family is a mob, I don't know what to tell ya .. maybe the sky isn't blue ..
As far as the shot at being "newsmax" - facts are just facts .. they might suck for you, but if you don't think his family is a mob, I don't know what to tell ya .. maybe the sky isn't blue ..
As the great Senator from New York, Daniel Patrick Moynihan once said: "You're entitled to your own opinion, not to your own facts..."
To that point, considering the events of the last 24 hours, your post about the Biden 'crime family' aged about as well raw hamburger left out on a South Florida summer day...
I don’t believe this has been posted.
https://www.si.com/golf/news/jimmy-dunne-the-architect-of-the-pga-tour-liv-golf-deal-lays-out-the-details (https://www.si.com/golf/news/jimmy-dunne-the-architect-of-the-pga-tour-liv-golf-deal-lays-out-the-details)
I still think the PGA Tour Players will bargain collectively for their pound of flesh
George, you can wait and be as moderate as you wish. That will not change the fact that the Saudi's are human rights violators and murderous thugs. The PGA has no spine.
If you are dialing things up. Sounds similar to past US behaviour. People in glass houses....
Ciao
This is freeing up Harry Higgs. Takes the villain monkey off his back. Just picked him up at +250 to finish top 40 this week in Canadian Open.
This is freeing up Harry Higgs. Takes the villain monkey off his back. Just picked him up at +250 to finish top 40 this week in Canadian Open.
T2 baby...
Not everything on this thread is jibberish.
Well this is certainly an interesting take, courtesy of Bryson DeChambeau: In light of this new proposed arrangement, Bryson believes that "9/11 families should forgive Saudi Arabia..... because nobody is perfect."Bryson is from Fresno. He lived a good part of his life downwind from manure and pesticides. ::)
He also calls the killing of Jamal Khashoggi "unfortunate."
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/liv-golfs-bryson-dechambeau-suggests-9/11-families-should-forgive-saudi-arabia-nobodys-perfect (https://www.foxnews.com/sports/liv-golfs-bryson-dechambeau-suggests-9/11-families-should-forgive-saudi-arabia-nobodys-perfect)
Seems to me the big winner is Greg Norman. He got the world tour he always wanted.How do you figure? There's still the PGA Tour, and the DPWT. The PGA Tour isn't going to suddenly travel across the globe holding events.
More money for the pros?When Jay, LIV, PGA Tour players say it… this. Unfortunately.
More amateurs playing the game? More golf courses being built?When we say it, generally… this.
The background to the oil industry and golf in Saudi Arabia is worth pondering. Here’s a tidbit courtesy of Aramco - https://www.aramcolife.com/en/publications/the-arabian-sun/articles/2021/week-06/golf-history (https://www.aramcolife.com/en/publications/the-arabian-sun/articles/2021/week-06/golf-history)
Interesting history Aramco, ie once formally titled the Arabian-American Oil Company, going all the way back to Standard Oil and the California-Arabian Oil Co in the 1920’s/30’ and a cast of various characters over the decades including the likes of Esso, Texaco, Chevron, Mobil and no doubt a few governments, politicians and deal makers etc.
Wheels turn in circles?
Atb
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyVZdxFWIAEwjyj?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Haven't the Saudis bought up more of Europe, especially the UK and big chunks of London. Plus Newcastle FC.I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?On the other side of the pond we read nonsense like this and wonder how on Earth a once great democracy has fallen so far.
Yes and thanks to the UK for allowing the Lockerbie bomber to to go back home to a heroes welcome for killing college students and others flying home from a semester abroad. Talk about glass houses. Pretty sure we have all made mistakes.
Frankly, I think the combination of The PGA Tour, DP Tour & LIV will bring professional golf to something akin to what now occurs in World Football (soccer).
Yes and thanks to the UK for allowing the Lockerbie bomber to to go back home to a heroes welcome for killing college students and others flying home from a semester abroad. Talk about glass houses. Pretty sure we have all made mistakes.
Not the UK, but Scotland.
Haven't the Saudis bought up more of Europe, especially the UK and big chunks of London. Plus Newcastle FC.I'm curious with all your anti-Trump posts ... how do you feel about the current president that has a very difficult time actually completing a sentence, a thought, or keeping his balance, and has taken money from our enemies for himself and his family?On the other side of the pond we read nonsense like this and wonder how on Earth a once great democracy has fallen so far.
George, you can wait and be as moderate as you wish. That will not change the fact that the Saudi's are human rights violators and murderous thugs. The PGA has no spine.
If you are dialing things up. Sounds similar to past US behaviour. People in glass houses....
Ciao
Yes and thanks to the UK for allowing the Lockerbie bomber to to go back home to a heroes welcome for killing college students and others flying home from a semester abroad. Talk about glass houses. Pretty sure we have all made mistakes.
Yes and thanks to the UK for allowing the Lockerbie bomber to to go back home to a heroes welcome for killing college students and others flying home from a semester abroad. Talk about glass houses. Pretty sure we have all made mistakes.
Not the UK, but Scotland.
https://www.government.nl/topics/brexit/question-and-answer/which-countries-make-up-the-united-kingdom (https://www.government.nl/topics/brexit/question-and-answer/which-countries-make-up-the-united-kingdom)
George, you can wait and be as moderate as you wish. That will not change the fact that the Saudi's are human rights violators and murderous thugs. The PGA has no spine.
If you are dialing things up. Sounds similar to past US behaviour. People in glass houses....
Ciao
Yes and thanks to the UK for allowing the Lockerbie bomber to to go back home to a heroes welcome for killing college students and others flying home from a semester abroad. Talk about glass houses. Pretty sure we have all made mistakes.
My point exactly. Except what is considered a mistake is based on a personal subjective basis.
Ciao
Craig,I doubt that the PGA Tour Policy Board was kept aware of this deal. Rory is one of five players on that board and he found out just before it went public. Peter Malnati is also on that board and he didn't even attend the players' meeting that was held last week in Toronto, which makes no sense if he was on-board with the deal.
Thank you for posting that excellent article from the Guardian.
I am not familiar with the structure of the PGA but note the Board was apparently knowledgeable as to what was happening. Would it not be necessary that Board and possibly membership approval will be required to close this transaction?
George, you can wait and be as moderate as you wish. That will not change the fact that the Saudi's are human rights violators and murderous thugs. The PGA has no spine.
If you are dialing things up. Sounds similar to past US behaviour. People in glass houses....
Ciao
Yes and thanks to the UK for allowing the Lockerbie bomber to to go back home to a heroes welcome for killing college students and others flying home from a semester abroad. Talk about glass houses. Pretty sure we have all made mistakes.
My point exactly. Except what is considered a mistake is based on a personal subjective basis.
Ciao
I'll mention that to the Hunt family who live in my town, Their daughter died on that flight on her way home from a semester abroad from SU.....I guess we had that coming and 9/11 too....
Scottish law is completely separate from English law. That was an entirely Scottish decision - the UK government was against it.
What do the non-profit and for profit entities do?
In any event, also curious how the for profit and non-profit entities are related, and how the TPC properties fit into this. Does the Tour directly own these clubs (excluding the ones that we know are owned by others)? Will the TPC's be 50% owned by the PIF? I would imagine some members may not be too happy about that.
Bump. Any comments on the text of the agreement (just above), or are we just plain tired of the whole thing?There's not much there. Almost nothing we didn't already know before. It's not the agreement specifically; it's the framework. No details.
From Punchbowl News:FORE! Congress digs in on PGA, LIV mergerThe most controversial merger in sports history will get its day on Capitol Hill next week, when top officials from the PGA Tour will testify in front of a Senate committee about its union with the Saudi-backed LIV Tour.Ron Price, the chief operating officer of the PGA Tour, and Jimmy Dunne, the top powerbroker in professional golf, will testify in front of the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, chaired by Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), on July 11. The hearing is entitled “The PGA-LIV Deal: Implications for the Future of Golf and Saudi Arabia’s Influence in the United States.”Price has been with the PGA since 1994. Dunne is a longtime force in professional golf. He’s the vice chairman of investment bank Piper Sandler and a member at some of the nation’s most prestigious golf clubs, including Seminole Country Club in Florida, Pine Valley in New Jersey and Augusta National, the home of the Masters.Greg Norman, the former professional golfer who has served as the face of the LIV Tour, and Yasir al-Rumayyan, the head of the Saudi Arabian Public Investment Fund, declined to testify on July 11.The politics here are fascinating. The PGA Tour railed against LIV for months – urging senators and members of the House to join in the criticism – and eventually merged with the Saudi-backed tour in a reversal that shocked the sports world and many players. Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle have expressed pause about the Saudis’ involvement in the PGA Tour, especially given its sometimes adversarial relationship with the United States.U.S. athletic organizations have so far balked at foreign ownership, and now, according to critics, the Saudis will have outsized sway over the world’s premier golf tour.But the PGA leadership has argued that Saudi investment will make the tour stronger and consolidate the fractured professional golf world.What to watch: It will be up to Dunne and Price to explain how the Saudis will be involved in the day-to-day management of the PGA Tour. Furthermore, we may get more information on how the LIV Tour and PGA Tour will merge – which, as of now, is akin to a state secret.The downtown angle: The PGA Tour has DLA Piper and former Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.) – himself an avid golfer and member of the exclusive Burning Tree Country Club in Maryland – on retainer. Jeff Miller, a close ally of Speaker Kevin McCarthy, also lobbies for the PGA Tour. The Tour spent $190,000 lobbying in the first quarter of 2023 – $110,000 with Miller Strategies and $80,000 with DLA Piper.– Jake Sherman
Believe me, I am anti LIV, but other than who is financing the new league is this "merger" any different competition wise than when it was just the PGA Tour and DP Tour with an agreement to share players with prior approval. Now instead of 2 tours you have 3 tours with an agreement. I don't see how antitrust laws would apply now any more than when there was just the PGA TOUR and the DP tour with an agreement. This sounds like another scum Republican shake down of the Saudi's for more money to just let it go later after the check clears. >:(
Stumbled on the PGATour coverage for John Deere on the golf channel.
Was a bit surprised to see very small galleries, (if any at all on some holes). I've seen far better attended Korn Ferry events, is this the new normal for 2nd/3rd tier PGATour events?
I scroll back and forth between the Tour & LIV telecast. I prefer the LIV. Team play gives it another dynamic.
Interesting read and development. Per usual, so much more than meets the eye....
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/10/business/dealbook/pga-stephenson-resign-saudi.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/10/business/dealbook/pga-stephenson-resign-saudi.html)
It also sounds like Jimmy, or Jay, is handing out memberships to ANGC and the R&A like pieces of candy.Interesting read and development. Per usual, so much more than meets the eye....
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/10/business/dealbook/pga-stephenson-resign-saudi.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/10/business/dealbook/pga-stephenson-resign-saudi.html)
By all accounts, Jimmy Dunne is an honorable person. He went the extra mile to compensate the families in his firm who lost loved ones September 11. But how does he go from not letting LIV players participate in Seminole’s pro-member to cutting a deal with the Saudi PIF? Reports indicate that the PIF agreed to drop litigation without qualifications when Dunne first met them. Why not take that offer and explore other solutions to the tour’s financial predicament? Sometimes deal makers need to restrain themselves. I suppose we will learn more during the hearings.
Very interesting on the ANGC membership for Al-Rumayyan. Wonder how the membership would feel if that actually comes to fruition. Does The Tour actually have the authority to provide and deliver on that promise?Yes, that is fascinating. It may be that Jimmy Dunne was the guy behind that. Maybe he can make it happen?
I scroll back and forth between the Tour & LIV telecast. I prefer the LIV. Team play gives it another dynamic.
The Augusta National Membership for His Excellency is likely because LIV/PIF threatened to schedule an event opposite The Masters with a purse double the size of the Masters. I was told the power players at Augusta leaned on Jimmy Dunn to get involved and negotiate a truce.
The Augusta National Membership for His Excellency is likely because LIV/PIF threatened to schedule an event opposite The Masters with a purse double the size of the Masters. I was told the power players at Augusta leaned on Jimmy Dunn to get involved and negotiate a truce.
I believe you but is ANGC really worried about the Masters losing like 13,000 viewers tops? Or is there any player who would skip the Masters for such an event? Maybe there is, I don't know.
One thing I learned during the hearing is that the Tour seemingly had a 20 year arrangement with China. I did not hear Monahan and others rail against their human rights transgressions. Could it be because the Chinese weren’t poaching their players?
Are the people who said LIV would fail right or wrong?The Saudi's have leveraged their way into the PGA Tour if this deal goes through, which it will since $$$$ rules, so the Saudi's have succeeded. We the golf fans and PGA Tour players still have no idea if LIV will still exist after this season. No one can confirm or deny if the talking points list that included the Augusta National membership and a fall LIV schedule was agreed to or not. So much more to come. ???
The Augusta National Membership for His Excellency is likely because LIV/PIF threatened to schedule an event opposite The Masters with a purse double the size of the Masters. I was told the power players at Augusta leaned on Jimmy Dunn to get involved and negotiate a truce.
The Augusta National Membership for His Excellency is likely because LIV/PIF threatened to schedule an event opposite The Masters with a purse double the size of the Masters. I was told the power players at Augusta leaned on Jimmy Dunn to get involved and negotiate a truce.
I will gladly take the other side of this...any wager won would go to charity.
I can't wait until the Saudi Fund starts buying into the NFL...
Can someone tell me how the Tour is exactly structured? I know there's a for profit part and a non-profit part, but I was under the impression that the Tour was created by its members to benefit its members, like a 501c(7) club. If so, you'd think that major decisions, LIKE SELLING YOURSELF, would require the consent of the members, and not just some 51% of some "advisory board" (or whatever it is). If that doesn't require consent of the members, then I guess they're not "members" of anything, but just golfers.
The PGA Tour, Inc. is exempt as a 501(c)(6), [trade association, etc.] Here's a link to their most recent (2021) Annual Report IRS Form 990 available on the internet. https://beta.candid.org/profile/7750944?keyword=PGA+Tour%2C+Inc.&action=Search (https://beta.candid.org/profile/7750944?keyword=PGA+Tour%2C+Inc.&action=Search) [Click on Form 990]
Section 501(c)(6): "Business leagues, chambers of commerce, real-estate boards, boards of trade, or professional football leagues (whether or not administering a pension fund for football players), not organized for profit and no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual."
Link to IRS internal instruction paper on 501(c)(6) for more detail: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopick03.pdf (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopick03.pdf)
Here's the IRS regulation, which doesn't really add anything to the above: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-26/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-1/subject-group-ECFR062882ac6495890/section-1.501(c)(6)-1 (https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-26/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-1/subject-group-ECFR062882ac6495890/section-1.501(c)(6)-1)]
I am not a betting man. If I were to place a bet it would be for the merger to go thru. The Senate dog and pony show will achieve nothing... as usual.
The Tour was caught asleep by poor leadership.
There shouldn't be a 501-3c exemption for the Tour.
Ciao
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/pga-tour-tiger-woods-leadership-2023 (https://www.golfdigest.com/story/pga-tour-tiger-woods-leadership-2023)
Interesting development with Woods joining the PGA Tour Policy Board. This move now makes him the 6th Player Director, joining McIlroy, Cantlay, Webb Simpson, Peter Malnati and Charlie Hoffman.
Good to see him taking an active role in the Tour and its future. At the urging of 41 Tour players, including Justin Thomas, John Rahm, McIlroy, Scheffler and Woods who sent a letter to Commissioner Monahan for certain steps to be taken immediately with respect to the tour's governance, including appointing Woods to the board.
This is interesting and the deal appears to be far from a fait accompli.
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/pga-tour-tiger-woods-leadership-2023 (https://www.golfdigest.com/story/pga-tour-tiger-woods-leadership-2023)
Interesting development with Woods joining the PGA Tour Policy Board. This move now makes him the 6th Player Director, joining McIlroy, Cantlay, Webb Simpson, Peter Malnati and Charlie Hoffman.
Good to see him taking an active role in the Tour and its future. At the urging of 41 Tour players, including Justin Thomas, John Rahm, McIlroy, Scheffler and Woods who sent a letter to Commissioner Monahan for certain steps to be taken immediately with respect to the tour's governance, including appointing Woods to the board.
This is interesting and the deal appears to be far from a fait accompli.
I’m curious how the board makeup changed to add a player.
Seems a big deal that the structure of the policy board was suddenly changed? Not saying it’s good or bad, but seems like this should have been a pretty big deal that the players (voting members) had a hand in?
Tiger Woods vs. Phil Mickelson Is on Again, With LIV Golf's Existence at Stake
By taking a spot on the PGA Tour Policy Board, Woods has a chance to beat his longtime rival one last time with golf's future on the line.
Read more:
Tiger Woods vs. Phil Mickelson Is on Again, With LIV Golf's Existence at Stake - Sports Illustrated Golf: News, Scores, Equipment, Instruction, Travel, Courses (https://www.si.com/golf/news/tiger-woods-vs-phil-mickelson-again-with-liv-golf-existence-at-stake?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=+The+First+Call+08-02-23)
It appears that the board composition is now 6 players, 5 "independents" and the PGA of America rep. But one of the independents is vacant as Randall Stephenson has resigned.
The Board should call an emergency meeting and have a vote of confidence on Monahan. The players currently have a clear majority now - it will be 50-50 in the future, depending on how the PGA rep votes.
It appears that the aforementioned letter, signed by 41 PGA Tour players (which included Woods and the 5 Player Directors) prompted Monahan et al to make the very quick decision of adding Woods to the Board, thus tilting the "power" of the Board in favor of the players, which, of course, gives the players much greater control of their and the Tour's destiny.They knew they were adding a player director many months ago. I remember reading stories about it. When I heard it was Tiger Woods, I remember thinking "oh, that's who they added," not "oh, they added another player?" Because they were planning to add another player for quite some time already. Perhaps since that meeting or shortly after that meeting.
It appears that the aforementioned letter, signed by 41 PGA Tour players (which included Woods and the 5 Player Directors) prompted Monahan et al to make the very quick decision of adding Woods to the Board, thus tilting the "power" of the Board in favor of the players, which, of course, gives the players much greater control of their and the Tour's destiny.They knew they were adding a player director many months ago. I remember reading stories about it. When I heard it was Tiger Woods, I remember thinking "oh, that's who they added," not "oh, they added another player?" Because they were planning to add another player for quite some time already. Perhaps since that meeting or shortly after that meeting.
Cantlay was #5, IIRC, out of ten. Previously the players were down 5 to 4.
Also, it's not like it's adversarial. The advisors advise… and they're on the players side, too. They understand the business side more than the players do, so it's a communication thing. It's not adversarial like many seem to think.
SAUDI ARABIA IS CUTTING OIL PRODUCTION.
According to this published article from March 2022, Cantlay was picked as the 5th player director. After this took place, Webb Simpson and Peter Malnati replaced Kevin Kisner and James Hahn, as they rotated off.I'll try to find it at some point. IIRC (and maybe I'm not), I am not saying they were going to name Woods. I just remember (I think) reading that the players were going to have a majority, and that was planned or known, well before Woods joined.
I've done a pretty deep dive and have found nothing about a 6th player director being mentioned, until this week following the letter sent to Monahan on Monday requesting that Woods be named as the 6th player director. I'm sure it had been in the works for a bit but I can find nothing, anywhere about expanding the number of player directors. If you find it somewhere Erik, I'd enjoy reading it.
Thanks in advance.
There are rumors swirling that Jon Rahm will go to LIV with the reputed signing bonus at a cool $600 million. Without any judgement on the possible defection and if I’m a bettor I think he goes. That’s a lot of zeros after the 6. :oWSJ (https://www.wsj.com/sports/golf/jon-rahm-liv-pga-tour-2341016e?st=kh1zjz248db2ntv&reflink=article_copyURL_share) is reporting that Rahm will be leaving for LIV
That's a signing many LIV fans and followers (myself included) have been waiting to be confirmed. Rumor has it that Finau, Cantlay and Schauffele aren't far behind. The OWGR is going to have to find a away to award LIV golfers points or find themselves irrelevant, as the majors are going to want the best players in the world at their events regardless of tour or league affiliation - OWGR points be damned.There are rumors swirling that Jon Rahm will go to LIV with the reputed signing bonus at a cool $600 million. Without any judgement on the possible defection and if I’m a bettor I think he goes. That’s a lot of zeros after the 6. :oWSJ (https://www.wsj.com/sports/golf/jon-rahm-liv-pga-tour-2341016e?st=kh1zjz248db2ntv&reflink=article_copyURL_share) is reporting that Rahm will be leaving for LIV
WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/sports/golf/jon-rahm-liv-pga-tour-2341016e?st=kh1zjz248db2ntv&reflink=article_copyURL_share) is reporting that Rahm will be leaving for LIV"A deal for Rahm is expected to be announced this week, people familiar with the matter said, assuming talks don’t fall apart."
The OWGR is going to have to find a away to award LIV golfers points or find themselves irrelevant, as the majors are going to want the best players in the world at their events regardless of tour or league affiliation - OWGR points be damned.The OWGR IS the majors and the Tours. They're on the board. They make the determinations. Especially when the PGA Tour and DPWT recused themselves from the recent decision.
That's a signing many LIV fans and followers (myself included) have been waiting to be confirmed. Rumor has it that Finau, Cantlay and Schauffele aren't far behind. The OWGR is going to have to find a away to award LIV golfers points or find themselves irrelevant, as the majors are going to want the best players in the world at their events regardless of tour or league affiliation - OWGR points be damned.There are rumors swirling that Jon Rahm will go to LIV with the reputed signing bonus at a cool $600 million. Without any judgement on the possible defection and if I’m a bettor I think he goes. That’s a lot of zeros after the 6. :oWSJ (https://www.wsj.com/sports/golf/jon-rahm-liv-pga-tour-2341016e?st=kh1zjz248db2ntv&reflink=article_copyURL_share) is reporting that Rahm will be leaving for LIV
I wonder if some of the guys feel that LIV players will be allowed to return to the TOUR at some point, so taking the money is a no-brainer.The vast majority of players have no desire to return to the PGA or DP World Tours. They love LIV's reduced schedule, the team competition format, playing globally and in their home countries and in front of their own fans, depending on the stop. With Rahm in the fold the Andalucia LIV stop next year will be off the charts. It was last year with just Sergio playing. Add Rahm to the mix and it will be like Adelaide 2.0. The U.S. will be the last market that embraces LIV and understandably so with favortism shown to the legacy PGAT. Outside of the U.S., however, LIV is the tour people follow and it's only going to grow.
I wonder if some of the guys feel that LIV players will be allowed to return to the TOUR at some point, so taking the money is a no-brainer.The vast majority of players have no desire to return to the PGA or DP World Tours. They love LIV's reduced schedule, the team competition format, playing globally and in their home countries and in front of their own fans, depending on the stop. With Rahm in the fold the Andalucia LIV stop next year will be off the charts. It was last year with just Sergio playing. Add Rahm to the mix and it will be like Adelaide 2.0. The U.S. will be the last market that embraces LIV and understandably so with favortism shown to the legacy PGAT. Outside of the U.S., however, LIV is the tour people follow and it's only going to grow.
I wonder if some of the guys feel that LIV players will be allowed to return to the TOUR at some point, so taking the money is a no-brainer.The vast majority of players have no desire to return to the PGA or DP World Tours. They love LIV's reduced schedule, the team competition format, playing globally and in their home countries and in front of their own fans, depending on the stop. With Rahm in the fold the Andalucia LIV stop next year will be off the charts. It was last year with just Sergio playing. Add Rahm to the mix and it will be like Adelaide 2.0. The U.S. will be the last market that embraces LIV and understandably so with favortism shown to the legacy PGAT. Outside of the U.S., however, LIV is the tour people follow and it's only going to grow.
Mike, they play 14 events. They only have to play 15 on the PGA tour. Add in the travel across the globe and I would argue it's more time away from home. Then to get ranking points they need to play more events on the Asian tour. Let's not kid ourselves. It's all about the money. I have no problem with that if that's what they want. Just admit it like Varner did.While I don't disagree with the travel expense or the financial security arguments, many of the PGAT guys play 18 - 20 events by the time sponsor events are factored in. For example, as part of his endorsement deal with Rocket Mortgage Rickie Fowler is contractually obligated to appear and play in the Rocket Mortgage Classic each year, which isn't an elevated/designated event. There are similar tournaments to it where sponsored PGAT players have to appear. Thus, it ends up being more than just 15 events for many of them. Look how many top OWGR guys played in the Hero World Challenge this past week? None of them were obligated to do so, but no one wants to disappoint Tiger either. Meanwhile, while that was going on the LIV guys were kicking back relaxing with their families at home. A lot of the same top players are at the Grant Thorton mixed event tourney this week. So, it add's up for these guys beyond the 15 they're obligated to take part in by the PGAT.
That's a signing many LIV fans and followers (myself included) have been waiting to be confirmed. Rumor has it that Finau, Cantlay and Schauffele aren't far behind. The OWGR is going to have to find a away to award LIV golfers points or find themselves irrelevant, as the majors are going to want the best players in the world at their events regardless of tour or league affiliation - OWGR points be damned.There are rumors swirling that Jon Rahm will go to LIV with the reputed signing bonus at a cool $600 million. Without any judgement on the possible defection and if I’m a bettor I think he goes. That’s a lot of zeros after the 6. :oWSJ (https://www.wsj.com/sports/golf/jon-rahm-liv-pga-tour-2341016e?st=kh1zjz248db2ntv&reflink=article_copyURL_share) is reporting that Rahm will be leaving for LIV
If Rahm goes at this stage of the game it's a big FU to everyone on the tour. Now all of sudden he wants or needs the money? They can have Cantlay. Big question would be why is Cantlay on the policy board if he's going..............Seems like a little bit of a conflict.............
Rob-I think Cantlay and Schauffele will act in tandem. If either go to LIV they both will. As far as Cantlay on the policy board it makes sense if you are weighing your options to have a birds eye view of what is going on behind the scenes. I want to believe that he’s there for the right reasons but…. Finally how many guys were never going to jump ship until they did.Great points, Tim. I could't agree with you more.
That's a signing many LIV fans and followers (myself included) have been waiting to be confirmed. Rumor has it that Finau, Cantlay and Schauffele aren't far behind. The OWGR is going to have to find a away to award LIV golfers points or find themselves irrelevant, as the majors are going to want the best players in the world at their events regardless of tour or league affiliation - OWGR points be damned.There are rumors swirling that Jon Rahm will go to LIV with the reputed signing bonus at a cool $600 million. Without any judgement on the possible defection and if I’m a bettor I think he goes. That’s a lot of zeros after the 6. :oWSJ (https://www.wsj.com/sports/golf/jon-rahm-liv-pga-tour-2341016e?st=kh1zjz248db2ntv&reflink=article_copyURL_share) is reporting that Rahm will be leaving for LIV
If Rahm goes at this stage of the game it's a big FU to everyone on the tour. Now all of sudden he wants or needs the money? They can have Cantlay. Big question would be why is Cantlay on the policy board if he's going..............Seems like a little bit of a conflict.............
Rob-I think Cantlay and Schauffele will act in tandem. If either go to LIV they both will. As far as Cantlay on the policy board it makes sense if you are weighing your options to have a birds eye view of what is going on behind the scenes. I want to believe that he’s there for the right reasons but…. Finally how many guys were never going to jump ship until they did.
Someone make any sense to me of the Rahm move considering that the Tours are talking about merging? Is it just a chip in the negotiations by LIV to get a better deal? O is this saying that the merger discussions are off? If they merge, how does Rahm make out? I assume no one on here has an absolute answer, but probably a lot of theories.Best of both worlds for Jon. He gets $300M, they merge, he can go back to playing PGA Tour golf. PIF gets what it wants, and this forces the PGA Tour's hand.
I'm getting pretty disgusted with professional golf in general. Anyone else?
Why question this decision?Because of all he's said before?
Not allowed to change your mind?You can, but people can "question the decision," too.
I wonder if some of the guys feel that LIV players will be allowed to return to the TOUR at some point, so taking the money is a no-brainer.The vast majority of players have no desire to return to the PGA or DP World Tours. They love LIV's reduced schedule, the team competition format, playing globally and in their home countries and in front of their own fans, depending on the stop. With Rahm in the fold the Andalucia LIV stop next year will be off the charts. It was last year with just Sergio playing. Add Rahm to the mix and it will be like Adelaide 2.0. The U.S. will be the last
market that embraces LIV and understandably so with favortism shown to the legacy PGAT. Outside of the U.S., however, LIV is the tour people follow and it's only going to grow.
Mike,
I guess that's the case, because its hard to make sense of it.
Throw in most of these guys can't play in majors anymore and aren't getting OWGR points and its a real head scratcher.
Someone make any sense to me of the Rahm move considering that the Tours are talking about merging? Is it just a chip in the negotiations by LIV to get a better deal? O is this saying that the merger discussions are off? If they merge, how does Rahm make out? I assume no one on here has an absolute answer, but probably a lot of theories.Best of both worlds for Jon. He gets $300M, they merge, he can go back to playing PGA Tour golf. PIF gets what it wants, and this forces the PGA Tour's hand.
I'm getting pretty disgusted with professional golf in general. Anyone else?
Taking the money stopped being evil the day the PGA Tour announced it was taking the PIF money.
Hypocracy of all players died when the righteous, upstanding, organization stooped down to take their share. Even if the deal with the PGA Tour dies, their public willingness in the deal absolved all grief from the players.
I read Nancy Armour's Opinion piece in this morning's USA Today; much of which is re-hashed from the last high profile PGA Tour defection. The facts are the facts and she cited them accurately.
What I find interesting is how someone in the media can pontificate about how this was a sell-out, yadda, yadda yadda. She's entitled to her opinion and is paid for her work.
I'm thinking, though I could be wrong, that if Newsweek, Reuters, Forbes or the WSJ offered to double or triple her salary to move to a media outlet which is a bit more conservative the USA Today (which is a pretty decent media choice), she'd jump ship as its an advantage to her career and family - I could be incorrect; however.
Wells Fargo will call it after 2024. Increased purse requirements $9.0mil in 2022 up to $20.0 mil is not sustainable. Elevated purses keep players and shed sponsors.
This is worse news for the PGA Tour than the loss of Rahm.
Sponsors pulling out because it's not worth it is a much bigger problem, though. I wonder how much they considered that when creating/promoting the new large purse events; Wells Fargo said they'd have been happy to continue to sponsor at the previous purse but it didn't make sense at the new, significantly higher price point.https://amp.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article282736968.html (https://amp.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article282736968.html)
So now Shohei Ohtani signs for 700 million. It’s all insane.
So now Shohei Ohtani signs for 700 million. It’s all insane.Baseball isn't the most popular sport in the U.S. (football by a mile and a half), but it's more popular than golf by a large margin. And… that's for ten years, with a lot of it deferred.
So now Shohei Ohtani signs for 700 million. It’s all insane.
So now Shohei Ohtani signs for 700 million. It’s all insane.
The initial reporting on Rahm was he was going to sign for $600 million. After the deal was inked and made public that number dropped to $500 million. This morning I read that it’s actually $300 million. Although still a gigantic number it now appears to be half of what the media outlets were originally saying. Finally I wish I could unsee the photo of a smiling Jon Rahm and Greg Norman.
Watched a bit of the Grant Thornton yesterday and today. Very enjoyable. Got me thinking, I love playing golf, reading and watching golf. Not sure I really care who's playing on the tube though. If Jon Rahm next popped up on any match I turn on I wont miss him. Haven't missed Phil, DJ or Cam Smith either. I'd watch Denny McCarthy, Celine Boutier or Steve Alker if they were on. Still give me enjoyment. If Jon Rahm wants to go play for the circus money, do we really care? He'll be at Augusta in April and Pinehurst in June. I hope he's battle tested and ready and if he's not who cares.I think you're in the minority on that one John. I think most like seeing the best players playing against each other somewhat often (or seeing them at all, which we don't on LIV).
John and Erik, you both make valid points. But I have to say that professional golf is doing its best to cause me to lose interest.Oh, I don't watch much anymore myself. Too many commercials, too much nonsense, too much putting… etc. It's almost impossible to watch anymore.
John and Erik, you both make valid points. But I have to say that professional golf is doing its best to cause me to lose interest.Oh, I don't watch much anymore myself. Too many commercials, too much nonsense, too much putting… etc. It's almost impossible to watch anymore.
John and Erik, you both make valid points. But I have to say that professional golf is doing its best to cause me to lose interest.Oh, I don't watch much anymore myself. Too many commercials, too much nonsense, too much putting… etc. It's almost impossible to watch anymore.
Same here.
When I read Rahm signed, I had to search for the golf channel on my YouTubetv. It had been so long since I watched it, I didn’t know where it was! :D
I wonder if this will put an end to Captain America's lawsuit shenanigans..
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/brandel-chamblee-takes-victory-lap-at-patrick-reed-s-expense-amid-judge-s-ironic-ruling/ar-AA1mANQA?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=c7593c542e8f49e8b6eaba5a34396f33&ei=15 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/brandel-chamblee-takes-victory-lap-at-patrick-reed-s-expense-amid-judge-s-ironic-ruling/ar-AA1mANQA?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=c7593c542e8f49e8b6eaba5a34396f33&ei=15)
Saudi wealth fund brings era of easy money to an end - Once considered a cash cow by dealmakers, PIF has slowed spending on global investments, bankers say
For much of the past decade, Saudi Arabia has been a major draw for dealmakers, bankers and asset managers seeking capital as its ambitious sovereign wealth fund went on a multibillion-dollar global spending spree.
But as the kingdom reassesses its priorities and the $925bn Public Investment Fund shifts focus to huge domestic commitments, the era of Saudi Arabia being perceived as a source of easy money is drawing to a close.
“It is ending,” said a senior Dubai-based investment banker. “People are realising it.”
Fund managers, bankers and companies that sought to raise capital in the kingdom are already feeling the effects of the shift.
Why would this impact LIV? I thought all the franchises were each worth billions of dollars? That’s what they told me, at least.