Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: David Davis on May 05, 2015, 04:19:33 AM
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I'm almost afraid to ask this question. It popped into my mind while just responding to Michael's "law of diminishing returns" post.
How many of you have let GCA be an influence on where you decided to live? For how many was it the main influence? Was this in the end a wise choice for you? Would you do it again?
I might be approaching this stage in the next few years. One where you can go anywhere. After being overseas for about 25 years (thinking 4 years ahead here) I might reach a point where I have to decide where I want to live when I grow up. Golf could have a big impact on this. 20 years in The Netherlands have been great BUT I somehow don't feel attached, more of a home is where I lay my hat kind of cliche would fit.
How many have faced this and decided for a part/large part based on GCA? Maybe it's just a silly question.
Thoughts?
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David
I didn't mind moving to England partly because I knew the golf was good and plentiful. But when choosing the specific area, golf had nothing to do with it. I think if I moved country again, it would be for a reasonable warm all-year climate so as a sideline that definitely helps the golf prospects.
Ciao
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Well, the wife and I are currently looking at houses in Deal and Sandwich...
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How many of you have let GCA be an influence on where you decided to live? For how many was it the main influence? Was this in the end a wise choice for you? Would you do it again?
Golf was definitely the largest factor in deciding where we bought our house. In our 20's we bought our retirement home in Pinehurst. Was it a wise choice...I don't regret it, but realize it probably wasn't a "smart" financial decision. I'd do it again. We'll see if it works out in 15 years when we retire, for now we enjoy the visits.
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David
I didn't mind moving to England partly because I knew the golf was good and plentiful. But when choosing the specific area, golf had nothing to do with it. I think if I moved country again, it would be for a reasonable warm all-year climate so as a sideline that definitely helps the golf prospects.
Ciao
Sean,
Examples please, where are you going to find the kind of golf you love in a warm climate that's also equivalent to what you are use to from a cost perspective? Enlighten me and I might put that on my to be considered list. I mean it can't be Spain/Portugal, Florida, California etc so I'm kind of drawing a blank here.
DD
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How many of you have let GCA be an influence on where you decided to live? For how many was it the main influence? Was this in the end a wise choice for you? Would you do it again?
Golf was definitely the largest factor in deciding where we bought our house. In our 20's we bought our retirement home in Pinehurst. Was it a wise choice...I don't regret it, but realize it probably wasn't a "smart" financial decision. I'd do it again. We'll see if it works out in 15 years when we retire, for now we enjoy the visits.
Joe,
Thanks. I remember discussing this during our round at De Pan. What amazed me is that you are the youngest person I've ever heard of planning for their retirement when they have an entire life to lead before they get there. I guess you can never plan too early but wow that was amazing. I told you then that I had not long ago been offered a job in Pinehurst that was quite interesting but given I am divorced and couldn't take my kids with me, without breaking international laws (ha ha) it was a no go. Turns out this company went bust so things happen for a reason.
Pinehurst does sound like a great place for me to live, especially since I seem to know a lot of people living there now, or in your case, retiring there.
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Well, the wife and I are currently looking at houses in Deal and Sandwich...
Adam, seems a good choice. I could play Deal every day and never tire of it. RSG is also outstanding but Deal is even more fun IMO.
Plus the town is a lot nicer than I had expected. Now I'm not what the value for money is in that area compared to something like St. Andrews but the weather is certainly compatible to NL.
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I wonder if you asked GCA folks to name two places (or 2 clubs) for retirement. One for winter and one for summer and they could never play anywhere else again. What would they choose? I would vote for Western NC (Wade Hampton) in the summer and Palm Desert (Stone Eagle) in the winter.
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Is GCA a deciding factor, no. Is access to a few top flight courses a priority, yes.
As for Stone Eagle, I love the club but, I am indifferent about the course itself.
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I wonder if you asked GCA folks to name two places (or 2 clubs) for retirement. One for winter and one for summer and they could never play anywhere else again. What would they choose? I would vote for Western NC (Wade Hampton) in the summer and Palm Desert (Stone Eagle) in the winter.
While I wouldn't want to change the thread just yet for me it's hard to beat the St. Andrews links ticket for locals at 200 GBP/year and unlimited access to 8 arguably excellent courses including the Old Course and Kingsbarns for a reasonable extra fee.
Even if you only spend your summers up there.
I'm still waiting to see it knocked off the pedestal and waiting for a similar warm weather winter alternative.
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8) David,
Don't you have to go continent by continent to get the economics to be properly relative?
ps I didn't know there were any warm places in the UK?? ::)
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David
I didn't mind moving to England partly because I knew the golf was good and plentiful. But when choosing the specific area, golf had nothing to do with it. I think if I moved country again, it would be for a reasonable warm all-year climate so as a sideline that definitely helps the golf prospects.
Ciao
Sean,
Examples please, where are you going to find the kind of golf you love in a warm climate that's also equivalent to what you are use to from a cost perspective? Enlighten me and I might put that on my to be considered list. I mean it can't be Spain/Portugal, Florida, California etc so I'm kind of drawing a blank here.
DD
While on vacation my wife asked me where I'd choose to live if we moved - a hypothetical question since we love where we are. Without too much thinking I offered Aiken, SC. Walkable small downtown, Southern, a few hours to the beach, affordable with quaint architecture, just enough weather seasonality, Aiken Golf Club with the occasional invite to Palmetto and the inevitable invite to Augusta National Golf Club once people realize what a modest and swell fellow I am.
I'd say that would work for Sean nicely.
Bogey
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I think that it will be an important factor on where we retire, but only one of several (i.e. proximity to kids, friends, culture, climate, low taxes etc.). I guess the point is that if golf is important to you, and you have options, you want to be close to at least 1 course/club that you look forward to playing again and again. Having been fortunate enough to belong to several clubs throughout the years, I will say that for a course to stand up to hundreds of repeat plays, it better fit your game and taste like a glove or you will inevitably tire of it. I think the bar is actually pretty high for some of us in this regard.
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Although I didn't have complete control over where I would attend graduate school, I let it be known that I preferred Columbus, OH over San Antonio, New Orleans, and Rome, primarily for the quality of the golf in the area. After spending 6 years arguing with Buckeyes and playing some good golf I would have asked for somewhere else. The reason is that it only really takes one special place for me to get my golf architecture fix. And although Columbus has a tremendous assortment of courses in town (two Rosses, a MacK, two early Dyes, and countless others) it doesn't make it a better place to live then NOLA, Rome or San Antonio because who cares if there are 3 great course down the road; all I need is one. I guess what I am trying to say is that being surrounded by great architecture doesn't add much to one's quality of life. Give me a good home course and a trip or two a year playing some greats.
Thus, to answer the OP question, Yes, I requested to be sent for studies in Columbus, OH for the richness of the golf Architecture, and after I found a welcoming and fun club, I could care less about the other courses in town. Finding a club or course that you enjoy and are comfortable at trumps having a handful of ranked courses around home.
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I moved to Oregon 24 years ago because I knew Bandon Dunes was going to happen, LOL
I could easily live in Bandon year round :)
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I moved to Oregon 24 years ago because I knew Bandon Dunes was going to happen, LOL
I could easily live in Bandon year round :)
sigh, if only Bandon offered memberships to locals I'd seriously consider returning to Oregon....Bandon, if you can remove yourself from civilization might be one of the few utopias in existence. All they need is a 200 USD all course card for locals to grow the population considerably to a sort of St. Andrews - esque type of situation.
Hey a guy can dream right?
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While weather being good all year round is a possible deciding factor, one must take into consideration whether having year round access to mediocre courses is acceptable. I live in San Diego, which arguably enjoys the best year round weather anywhere. Frankly, we are one of the worst golf destinations quite simply because our course selection overall stinks. I lived here before taking up the game, so it wasn't a factor in choosing SD as a place to live. If I had to do it over again, I would trade our milder climate for a place like San Francisco. I feel the course scene, both public and private, is superior.
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Even as a classic golf junkie, when we moved to our home, I was still playing, and chose
a good place to practice, with course(s) that offered similar shot demands I would likely face
in tournaments.
Schools and safety trumped all, even as I needed a good place to practice/play.
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Well, the wife and I are currently looking at houses in Deal and Sandwich...
Is it as hard to find a parking space in Deal or Sandwich as Rye? That £40 parking ticket was painful!
Littlestone might be a good town, and a charming golf course and membership. RCP is a personal favorite though. What a dilemma you face, Adam!
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I returned to the MET section because they play a good/ great course every event.
when I lived in Florida the competitive courses were abysmal.
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To threadjack a bit, what is the best destination for warm weather golf in the Eastern US? Is Aiken warm enough? Is there enough complelling golf from a gca perspective? I haven't found anyplace in Florida that meets my criteria: access to multiple great courses, that allow pull carts or have caddies, but close enough to the water to get my wife to move with me...
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To threadjack a bit, what is the best destination for warm weather golf in the Eastern US? Is Aiken warm enough? Is there enough complelling golf from a gca perspective? I haven't found anyplace in Florida that meets my criteria: access to multiple great courses, that allow pull carts or have caddies, but close enough to the water to get my wife to move with me...
Bill,
Is it the best?
No idea, but it's pretty good, affordable and a nice old town.
Palmetto's a great home course. Aiken GC a cheap nearby diversion that appeals to GCA, Midland Valley cheap also -a bit rough and ready but a solid Maples course, + a host of development courses designed by Cobb, Jones, Cupp and Arthur Hills.
2:45 to the ocean and golfable year round though in a month like January you have to be a weather watcher and generally get 15 pretty good days (upper 50's or better) that month-often there are days in the mid 70's in January, but could also have a high of 42.
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I have these thoughts too David. And yes, my decision to buy our home in Onekama, MI was directly driven by its proximity to Kingsley, Arcadia, Crystal Downs, Forest Dunes, etc, etc. Didn't hurt that my wife loves the area, but golf was the thing for me.
Now that we have that place for summers, we are starting to think about what to do once the boys head off and we don't need our home in Evanston, IL anymore. Warm weather and golf will most definitely be the deciding factors for me, and I cannot image regretting that approach to making the decision.
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If we chose to be snowbirds it would be a huge factor.
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If we chose to be snowbirds it would be a huge factor.
What areas interest you?
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If we chose to be snowbirds it would be a huge factor.
What areas interest you?
Bill:
I am not remotely near that point in life but for me the key would be finding a relatively affordable private club with a good golf course and a culture of walking. I like to walk but not so much that I would choose to walk when my playing companions ride. The guys I know in their 70's that walk regularly seem so much more fit than many of their counterparts on carts.
Places that have struck me as possibly fitting the bill include The Palms, Desert Forest and Hideout. I am sure there are many others.
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8) gca deciding, no way, opportunity and quality of life yes.
but its really nice up along the 45th parallel in michigan in summer, ... really nice along the 30th parallel in TX the rest of the year and one needs a good airport or two snd then one can always buy some cheap farmland and hopefully have Mike Nuzzo design his next personal course for you, ala Wolf Point.
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Jason, just so I am clear, The Palms is in CA and Desert Foerest is in AZ, right? My wife is not moving that far away from our kids. I've heard good things about The Hideout, so I will check it out. At age 58, I'm a helluva lot closer than you in terms of seriously considering this... I just want the option to walk or pull, so I'm eliminating all the riding only options, including a really nice place in Bonita Springs with three good courses that my best friend just joined (without asking my approval! :) )
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If you don't mind being a bit isolated, Pauma Valley in north San Diego County is worth considering. It is a 50+ year old Robert Trent Jones course in a very pretty spot. The surrounding housing is not especially intrusive and not very expensive (at least for California!). The weather is certainly playable all year round.
http://www.paumavalleycc.com/
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May I solicit any votes for a house at Pasatiempo, ten minutes from the beach, 45 minutes from Carmel, 30 minutes from the 'Niners, and 75 minutes from SF? The perfect Mediteranean climate with 300 days of sunshine and temps rarely above 80-85.
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"May I solicit any votes for a house at Pasatiempo, ten minutes from the beach, 45 minutes from Carmel, 30 minutes from the 'Niners, and 75 minutes from SF? The perfect Mediteranean climate with 300 days of sunshine and temps rarely above 80-85."
JCowden -
Assuming one had bought both a home near Pasa and an ownership share in the course 20-25 years ago, that would be a fine choice indeed. At today's prices it is a much different and far more costly proposition.
On the other hand DeLaveaga, the Santa Cruz muni, is not without its quirky charms.
http://www.delaveagagolf.com/
DT
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For me in retirement, escaping winter is the top factor. Golf 12 months a year without layers of sweaters/jackets is great. Pretty much every metro area has decent courses.
A bigger question is whether to drop a big initiation fee for a private club, given the financial struggles and bankruptcy problems of clubs today. With more public access and declining greens fees, pay-as-you-go is an attractive option. The key is finding a good regular group of players. All I want is golf. The more holes the better. I don't want tennis, pool, health club, dining, or any of that overhead. Certainly not a home in a "golf community".
Architecture is certainly a consideration, but not the main one. Doak 4 or better is good enough. All courses, public or private, have "feel" to them in both the play and the general service attitude. It's hard to characterize, but that plays heavy into a decision as to where to play.
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8) isn't the old indian curse on santa cruz still in effect, for the inhabitants to wander aimlessly?
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To threadjack a bit, what is the best destination for warm weather golf in the Eastern US? Is Aiken warm enough? Is there enough complelling golf from a gca perspective? I haven't found anyplace in Florida that meets my criteria: access to multiple great courses, that allow pull carts or have caddies, but close enough to the water to get my wife to move with me...
Bill,
My wife and I had long discussions on this. Florida was out for a variety of reasons unrelated to golf. Aiken had great appeal but proximity to the ocean was a major consideration and we settled near Beaufort, SC. We have had no regrets. There are seriously good golfing opportunities here as well.
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To threadjack a bit, what is the best destination for warm weather golf in the Eastern US? Is Aiken warm enough? Is there enough complelling golf from a gca perspective? I haven't found anyplace in Florida that meets my criteria: access to multiple great courses, that allow pull carts or have caddies, but close enough to the water to get my wife to move with me...
It can still get cold in the winter, but Pinehurst is still a viable option. You might not be able to play every day in January, but you can still play a few days each winter month. Plus, it's only about two hours and change to Wilmington and the beach.
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As life-long residents of a reasonably attractive, low cost of living medium-sized Sunbelt city we're not going anywhere, either before or after retirement. But thinking in terms of where to play golf the rest of my life, I'd say "GCA" in the sense of a Doak scale or similar would not be any sort of factor.
There are plenty of golf courses which I could happily play several times a week for years or decades. Some of them might rate on the Doak scale but the majority are probably 1's or 2's at best. Much more important than "architecture" is the condition of the course, whether I'm allowed to walk and how easy that walk is, the pace of play normally experienced and general experience of the entire operation.
I would absolutely drive right past a "Doak 7" or similar course of high repute that required a golf cart or a caddie in order to play and gladly drive another 20 miles to get to a "Doak 1" at which I could pull my bag out of the trunk, head straight to the first tee and walk the course as I play. Assuming of course it was generally in dry condition with decently maintained greens. Architectural pedigree is at best a bonus and the quality of the routing and design more generally is not at the top of my list of important factors.
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8) isn't the old indian curse on santa cruz still in effect, for the inhabitants to wander aimlessly?
Based on my relatives that live there I suspect yes.
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The last time I was on the job market was 10 years ago. I was interviewing with JPMorgan in NYC and Hershey's. I have always had great comfort with NYC, I had Rangers season tickets and series tix at the City Ballet for many years, the lack of time and access to a lot of golf certainly played into my decision to move to Central PA. Obviously the NYC area has loads of great golf, but assuming access and time is a different story.
Was GCA a deciding factor, not really, but access, time and the lifestyle afforded by a less urban area certainly tipped the scales.
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Quality golf is definitely a requirement for me. We live in northern New Jersey and, with our kids building careers in NYC we will likely always have a home here - that works for me as it's hard to top our area for spring-summer-fall golf on old classics. For winter golf, we have decided on Jupiter, FL...great weather, great golf and great access from the NYC area. Too soon to tell whether that will be a long-term option - I love it but my non-golfing wife is intrigued by the Charleston's and Savannah's of the deep south - I do have a 'GCA veto' but I know I could be very happy with the golfing options in those areas. Some desirable locales don't really work on the golf front...we have many friends on Nantucket and love the island, but quality private golf is not terribly accessible - I won't pay those real estate prices and be forced to take up sailing!
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David
I didn't mind moving to England partly because I knew the golf was good and plentiful. But when choosing the specific area, golf had nothing to do with it. I think if I moved country again, it would be for a reasonable warm all-year climate so as a sideline that definitely helps the golf prospects.
Ciao
Sean,
Examples please, where are you going to find the kind of golf you love in a warm climate that's also equivalent to what you are use to from a cost perspective? Enlighten me and I might put that on my to be considered list. I mean it can't be Spain/Portugal, Florida, California etc so I'm kind of drawing a blank here.
DD
DD
Haven't given it much thought, but I accept that moving anywhere in the US will require a marked step down or two in affordable, accessible and easily reached golf...nothing in the US can touch what I can play within a daytrip from my house and certainly not for a 1/2 night trip by car. That said, I would seriously consider the Carolinas.
Ciao
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Time from door to first tee is pretty important, especially in an area of erratic weather. The benefit of a short drive to play a few holes in the evening or do a few minutes of practice is considerable not only in golfing but also in relaxation terms.
Atb
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I got preposterously lucky, live 10 minutes at the most from an early Doak, Riverfront, in Suffolk, VA.
Tidewater VA has a number of reasonably ok to a little better than ok courses that are not expensive. It is the major reason I have been able to continue playing and making some marginal progress in the game since I moved to the area in 86.
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Well, the wife and I are currently looking at houses in Deal and Sandwich...
Blimey Adam, you don't mess about!
A couple of hours after posting this you appear to have bought one 100 yards from RCP. Impressive!
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Our first offer was accepted. Long, long way to go, and it's a bit more than 100 yards away :)
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David I have often mused on this and think I'm most likely to stay in Europe, close to the Atlantic or at least the sea.
But have heard good things about Thailand and will likely visit next Jan but probably not including Golf.
I have a clinet who has palns for a new golf Course in Cuba - so will watch developments there.
Haven't ruled out N America yet so watching this thread with interest.
We have talked about downsizing in London and getting second place by the sea.
Will try Portugal again for winter golf. Was fine in February but the overwatering that early in the season is hard to take.
Biarritz. A lot of average to good Golf Chiberta, Hossegor etc. But sublime location and big enough for it's own Cinema.
The other half would love Italy, but the med doesn't float my boat and I know nothing of the Golf.
I am realistic about my language skills and don't want to be a little brit so
I do wonder about winters in
Cornwall, surfed and golfed at New Year in St Ives.
Ballybunion or Lahinch, palm trees grow but never been in winter.
Nairn. The area is famed for it's mild climate.
But I do need both seaside and a city nearby.
So The Lothians and Fife need visiting in Winter.
Deal yes indeed but the seaside is a disapointment, assuming like me you might ever want to splash in it. However the other half thinks we'd get more use from something nearby.
Bournemouth area. Will feature on a Mad March tour soon. It's time to face up to the fact that we're incipient wrinklies!
Next Bank Holiday weekend is Brighton, a world class town but poor coast and golf options (Pullborough 40mins?). We'll see.
More research needed, I could have written most of this post 10 years ago and I'm still no closer to knowing ,even if I am much closer to the day when decisions need to be made or forever lost.
David to get the Links ticket I think you need 2 years residency close to St Andrews, be on the electoral role and registerred with a GP. I.e. you have to committ to there before you get that benefit. However much I like St Andrews as one of our waitress/students said "For all the talk of a City you have to remember its really only 3 streets big."
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Tony,
Thanks for the encouraging words. 10 years of searching for enlightenment and no further than when you started.
You sure know how to shed light and hope on the entire process.
Please keep me up on your search and what comes out of it.
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Muldoon, Arble et al. Just Google "Mornington Peninsula" and be done with the search, FFS!
Amazes me you all want to spend so much money to live and play golf in sub-standard places.
If you live even a 10hr drive from friends/family, how often will you see them? Just choose the right place and enjoy life!
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Scott,
Just curious, one round left to play in your life: Royal Melbourne or Kingston Heath?
Best,
Gordon
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RMW, no contest.
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David,
I would think Deal would suit you, but I hear they let a Yorkshirman in recently so perhaps standards are slipping? ;D
GCA is certainly an influence for me. My wife and I are moving soon and when looking around large areas were instantly ruled out as it was just too far to drive for regular golf where I'm a member now, which luckily does provide interesting golf from an architectural, history and challenge perspective. Its also playable all year round with occasional temporary greens for frost.
We recently went to the Isle of Skye and while there I bumped into another architect who lived in the East Midlands like me but had relocated to the Isle of Skye. We had serious discussions regarding doing something similar, and while there are many factors to consider in some such move, I just couldn't do it as despite a few options (fun 9 hole course on the island, a couple of 9 holers on the mainland, regular day trips to Askernish by ferry...), there just wasn't the right golf course nearby for regular play.
To answer another question, we have therefore come up with a long term plan which involves getting a small holiday home in Scotland and spending 3 months in spring and 3 months in autumn there, then summer and winter here at home (way in the future as retirement approaches or perhaps earlier if I can get more freedom workwise). That would give me golf at Notts GC for half the year and probably Royal Dornoch for the other half?
Thankfully my wife realises what a big part golf is in my life and so is happy for this to have an impact on such large decisions in life!
Cheers,
James
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I recently moved to Chicago and only looked at areas that had acceptable and accessible golf nearby (Chicago has lots of great golf, but traffic can severely limit actual options when looking at regular golf)
Commute time (1) and Neighborhood (2) were at the top of the list and that did take out some great golfing areas.
-Joe
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Even as a GCS, for me the architecture of the golf course is far down the list of priorities when I’m considering a job, except insofar as the course must drain well.
Determining factors in order of importance:
1. Political and social stability, not a given everywhere in the world.
2. Area, golf aside, would it be an interesting place to live? Things like culture, geography, entertainment, infrastructure, access to airports.
3. Safety and availability of medical care (mainly for my kids)
4. Schools (again, kids)
5. Salary vis-a-vis the cost of living.
6. Food. It may sound odd, but I have found that if an area has interesting and varied food in the supermarkets and restaurants then other factors tend to be attractive as well.
7. Climate
8. Golf course drainage.
9. Culture, history, and attitude of the golf club.
10. Operating and capital budgets.
11. Government bureaucracy, how difficult is it?
12. Playing and aesthetic appeal of the golf course design.
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Thanks for all the answers.
I can't help but to think of a kind of 7 - 5 set up or even a 5 - 5 - 2 set up as perhaps being ideal.
For the record I'm certainly not talking about retirement golf at 45.
7 - 5:
7 months in someplace like:
Deal
St. Andrews
North Berwick
Even Holland
5 months (Nov - Mar) in someplace like
Melbourne
South Portugal
South Spain
I hate the winters and darkness up here.
Someplace warm basically. Melbourne being likely tougher but not impossible, it would just require some arranging on the flexible work front and perhaps on the golf membership front in the sand belt. No language barriers and no need to commute weekly someplace for work during the week.
5 - 5 - 2
This is a slightly more hectic set up.
5 months England/Holland during golf season.
5 months someplace warm or split between places. Portugal, France, Spain etc.
2 months skiing someplace each year. Ski half a day, work half a day or one on one off kind of thing.
At least until I'm too old to float through the back country.
Anyone do something like that? I'd guess you'd either have to have kids that had already left home, not have kids and be single, have a golfing partner or at least one that was able to leave aside safety and security of a traditional place to call home.
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To threadjack a bit, what is the best destination for warm weather golf in the Eastern US? Is Aiken warm enough? Is there enough complelling golf from a gca perspective? I haven't found anyplace in Florida that meets my criteria: access to multiple great courses, that allow pull carts or have caddies, but close enough to the water to get my wife to move with me...
Bill,
My wife and I had long discussions on this. Florida was out for a variety of reasons unrelated to golf. Aiken had great appeal but proximity to the ocean was a major consideration and we settled near Beaufort, SC. We have had no regrets. There are seriously good golfing opportunities here as well.
Not fair... you are gone during the brutal summers!
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It seems as though golf course architecture is certainly not the only consideration, even for this group. While traveling, it's always fun to imagine how life in various areas would be. For my wife and I, a nice course is certainly part of the equation, but as others have noted, there is much more to consider.
Areas like Pebble were too costly for housing and golf. Bandon would be unbeatable for golf, but that three club wind every day could grow tiresome. Pace of play is almost as important as architecture. If I were given free afternoon tee times at Pebble, and it took 5 1/2 hours per round, the value isn't as great. We had looked into South Carolina, in the Litchfield Beach area, and came close to pursuing ownership there, but couldn't pull the trigger. Summer humidity can be intimidating to someone who lives in the desert Southwest, plus it just wouldn't feel right to complain about USC on football Saturdays, and have people think you are talking about the Gamecocks!
Areas outside of Phoenix have made the most sense to us. When you get to 5000 ft. elevation, the temperatures become quite comfortable for the vast majority of the year. It then becomes a matter of inserting the available golf opportunities, along with nearby shopping, eating, social and medical options into the computer within us, and choosing the best fit.
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It seems as though golf course architecture is certainly not the only consideration, even for this group. While traveling, it's always fun to imagine how life in various areas would be. For my wife and I, a nice course is certainly part of the equation, but as others have noted, there is much more to consider.
Areas like Pebble were too costly for housing and golf. Bandon would be unbeatable for golf, but that three club wind every day could grow tiresome. Pace of play is almost as important as architecture. If I were given free afternoon tee times at Pebble, and it took 5 1/2 hours per round, the value isn't as great. We had looked into South Carolina, in the Litchfield Beach area, and came close to pursuing ownership there, but couldn't pull the trigger. Summer humidity can be intimidating to someone who lives in the desert Southwest, plus it just wouldn't feel right to complain about USC on football Saturdays, and have people think you are talking about the Gamecocks!
Areas outside of Phoenix have made the most sense to us. When you get to 5000 ft. elevation, the temperatures become quite comfortable for the vast majority of the year. It then becomes a matter of inserting the available golf opportunities, along with nearby shopping, eating, social and medical options into the computer within us, and choosing the best fit.
and the ball goes farther a mile in the air