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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Turn My Head TURNBERRY: 2023-24 Winter Tour
« on: April 22, 2024, 06:51:06 AM »
Turnberry is well known for hosting four majors in the modern era. The first of these Opens was the 1977 Duel in The Sun, perhaps being one of the greatest Opens ever held. Tom Watson snuck past Jack Nicklaus by one shot after scoring 65-65 on the weekend to Jack’s 65-66. If Tom Watson had managed to grab the Claret Jug in 2009 perhaps that Open would be seen in the same light as the ’77 Open. What is often not remembered is Turnberry’s non-Open championship record. The resort has hosted four Amateurs, two Women’s British Opens, a Walker Cup and a myriad of other amateur and pro events.

Members of Girvan initially founded Turnberry in 1892. What that original design was like or even if there was a pre-1900 course I cannot say. Willie Fernie's 1901 thirteen-hole course had later additions to make a full 18. CK Hutchison created a new 18 holes in 1926 using the same land and some of the routing. Although the course was used as a landing strip and training base during WWI, it doesn’t seem as though there was much damage. The next major work I am aware of is again by Cecil Hutchison’s hand which was completed in 1938. More is the pity, because the course was once again used for a similar purpose as it was during the First Work War. After extensive damage during WWII, Mackenzie Ross was called in to revive Turnberry in 1951. There are conflicting reports as to how much damage was done during the war, but it does seem clear that Ross made significant changes to course shaping, greens etc even if the routing doesn’t strike one as terrible different. Some landing strips were dug up and the rubble used as a base for shaping, however, it is clear the routing is hemmed in by landing strips. That said, more effort was put into using the coastline. Holes 4, 9 & 10 hugged the sea. It is essentially this course which garnered fame as a Championship venue.

Despite a grand reputation, many believed Turnberry wasn’t all that it could be. Prior to the 2009 Open Mackenzie & Ebert made several modifications, most notably to the magnificent 10th and the 16th. Donald Trump purchased the resort in 2014 for what was a bargain price of £60 million. With this acquisition came radical changes to the course and major upgrades to the hotel. Once again, Mackenzie & Ebert were engaged. A quick rundown of the alterations includes

1st lengthened with new green
The 4th extended with new green
5th tees and green extended; becomes a par 5 for general play
Shortened par three 6th hole with a new green
New 9th using old tees to a new green near the water and lighthouse
Lengthened 10th with new green
New 11th short hole
14th moved right to a green in old 9th fairway
17th shortened with a new green
Longer 18th that is now fairly straight, new raised tee

The changes won't end with the above. In 2024 a significant alteration is planned. The existing 7th fairway will be shifted left to a new green near the coast. The tee will be further right. This will necessitate the 8th tees being moved to the right. I am sure more changes will occur over time!

The opener used to be a gentle handshake. The increased length isn’t a merry hello! The green is meant to be a replica of the previous version.


The second sees the introduction of sand scrapes. The green is tucked into a pack of gorse; it doesn't take much of an error to write off an approach.


Being a gentle legger right of somewhat similar yardage, the third feels akin to the opener.  The short 4th opens the coastal holes account. These holes are the meat of Turnberry's signicant improvement. Lovely hole, although I would probably like to see the waste area extended up to the bunker.


More to follow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: May 14, 2024, 02:08:04 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turn My Head TURNBERRY: 2023-24 Winter Tour
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2024, 08:11:39 AM »
Sean, your Turnberry history isn't quite right. I don't know when the course was extended to eighteen, but it was before 1909, because Colt submitted an extensive report dated February 11 of that year to the directors of the Glasgow and South Western Railway Company, who had recently acquired Turnberry. He recommended changes to all eighteen holes, and these were carried out that year, seemingly under the supervision of AN Weir, the club pro, who is given credit for the 1909 work by Jack Boyd in 'The Bonnie Links of Turnberry'. Colt's report is one of the most detailed of his very early works.

In his report, Colt wrote: "Your professional Weir, seems to take the keenest possible interest in the Links, and to my mind, thoroughly understands its necessities, and I do not think you could leave the matter in better hands than his. He helped me in every way during my inspection, and proved of great assistance."

(I just checked Boyd's book: he says that Fernie's 1901 course was eighteen holes, and provides a routing of same).
« Last Edit: April 22, 2024, 08:17:54 AM by Adam Lawrence »
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turn My Head TURNBERRY: 2023-24 Winter Tour
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2024, 10:08:17 AM »
In the photo of the 1st hole it appears that there’s a band of first-cut rough, or certainly grass somewhat longer than fairway-cut height, extending at quite a width around the whole green. Is this the case or is it a visual illusion of some kind?
Arn

Robin_Hiseman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turn My Head TURNBERRY: 2023-24 Winter Tour
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2024, 03:45:14 AM »
Looks like a bit of winter returfing work to me.
2024: RSt.D; Mill Ride; Milford; Notts; JCB, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (N), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Fran, Epsom, Casa Serena, Hayling, Co. Sligo, Strandhill, Carne, Cleeve Hill

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turn My Head TURNBERRY: 2023-24 Winter Tour
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2024, 05:40:43 AM »
Adam refers to the Turnberry history book by Jack Boyd and I can confirm it is an excellent history book. In the book there is a transcript of an article in Golf Illustrated from 1901 that describes the course. The plan of the 1901 course in the book has been worked out from that article. However the GI article was itself a straight lift from an article in the Glasgow Evening Times and that article also included a plan of the course. The Evening Times plan should be on Ed Odens Routing Plans thread somewhere.


The 1901 course was the first course at Turnberry as the plan by Girvan GC to move to Turnberry in 1892 didn't happen. So much for the history, back to the present...............


Niall

Andrew Slane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turn My Head TURNBERRY: 2023-24 Winter Tour
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2024, 11:48:01 AM »
I'm looking forward to this tour! I played Turnberry in October last year, a wonderful course right in the top tier, though not without some imperfections. The changes to the course mean some routing challenges should The Open return as within holes 4-11 there are 2 par 5s and 4 par 3s ... perhaps I'm being picky however the R&A guys may have a means of re-routing the course to enable teh championship to return.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turn My Head TURNBERRY: 2023-24 Winter Tour
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2024, 05:40:15 PM »
Andrew


I don't see the par sequence being any kind of hinderance to them getting the Open, after all Martin Ebert was involved. I think the logistics would likely be the main issue, after the question of ownership that is.


Niall

Andrew Slane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turn My Head TURNBERRY: 2023-24 Winter Tour
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2024, 06:54:42 AM »
Niall,


Great point re. E&M! My take was based on what I saw, there was a bit of a logjam in that part of the course resulting in a very rushed halfway house stop at the lighthouse as the course ranger sought to get things back on track. Clearly ownership is a factor and getting there is not as easy as other Open venues so impacting the commercial revenue. A lot of boxes to tick to get The Open back there, however the quality of the course is not one!

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turn My Head TURNBERRY: 2023-24 Winter Tour
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2024, 08:36:04 AM »
Turnberry Opens are very tricky logistically because the access is so poor. My dad and I attended the 2009 Open, and I have a vivid memory of what happened when Watson missed his putt for the title. I said to my dad 'Come on, let's go', to which he replied 'Don't you want to watch the playoff'. I answered 'We know what will happen [it did] and it's not worth getting in a fifteen mile traffic jam to watch it.


In some ways I think the ownership issue at Turnberry is a Godsend for the R&A, because it gives them an easy reason not to go there. It is a hugely popular venue for TV viewers, but the practicalities of actually organising the Championship there now would be horrendous.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turn My Head TURNBERRY: 2023-24 Winter Tour
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2024, 09:18:15 AM »
Adam,


The main thing Turnberry lacks is a rail connection which is ironic when you consider that the hotel and course were only built because of the railways. In terms of roads the Maybole bypass is now finished and makes a big difference.


Niall

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turn My Head TURNBERRY: 2023-24 Winter Tour New
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2024, 06:24:46 AM »
TURNBERRY TOUR CONT

A good hole, the 5th meanders slightly uphill to a green snuggled into the end of a holler. I am impressed with the alterations at the short 6th. This used to be a long par 3 with its green heavily tilted toward the tee. While the challenge remains, the hole is now scaled down and reminds me of Muirfield. 


The green in 2007.


I hope the new 7th can recreate the carry option as is currently the case.


The green after a pulled 2nd shot.


Curling a bit left, the 8th feels like a par 5, but this isn't the case. There is a huge bunker protecting the short left lay-up which can easily lead to a kiss on the card.


Set stunningly near the lighthouse, the short 9th is more about beauty than brains....which isn't necessarily a negative.


The carry isn't terribly onerous, but foozles will not stand.




More to follow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: May 19, 2024, 03:54:46 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turn My Head TURNBERRY: 2023-24 Winter Tour 1-9
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2024, 11:11:08 AM »

Foozles won't stand ! Now you're just being vinictive.


Niall



Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turn My Head TURNBERRY: 2023-24 Winter Tour 1-9
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2024, 01:02:49 PM »
Sean: I had the opportunity to play Turnberry a couple of years ago with a member who is a very good player and had been a member for quite a few years.  He was very impressed with the work that was done during Trump's ownership and on a number of holes we walked to the back tees which he felt was necessary to fully appreciate how much better the course is now and in my humble opinion it would be a fantastic venue for an Open Championship. Do you happen to go to the back tees and no, I did not play from back there.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turn My Head TURNBERRY: 2023-24 Winter Tour 1-9 New
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2024, 02:20:09 PM »
Sean: I had the opportunity to play Turnberry a couple of years ago with a member who is a very good player and had been a member for quite a few years.  He was very impressed with the work that was done during Trump's ownership and on a number of holes we walked to the back tees which he felt was necessary to fully appreciate how much better the course is now and in my humble opinion it would be a fantastic venue for an Open Championship. Do you happen to go to the back tees and no, I did not play from back there.

Jerry

No, we didn't walk back to any "Open" tees unless we happen to pass by them.

Turnberry Tour Cont

After a pit stop at what has to be one of the best halfway houses on the planet, we kicked off the back nine. The 10th may be the best hole on the course. The photo below is from the a back tee, although I believe there is a less dramatic tee further back.  To reach the fairway from this tee must be about 300 yards.


Below is the look from the member's tee.


Big hitters have to worry about a pot bunker in the middle of the fairway. Guys like me are more concerned about a blind, vast bunker blocking the fairway at about 110 Yards short of the green.


Looking back toward the tee.


11 is the final hole in the coastal stretch. A carry is required for this longish par 3. Again, I would prefer the sandy waste to include the front bunker area. To my eye the waste look adjacent to the pristine doesn't work. Below is a view of the green from front right of the tee.


A comparatively plain hole, the 12th (Monument) plays under the War Memorial which was originally erected to honour the airmen stationed at Turnberry during WWI. Several sections were added much later to recognize the airmen who died during the Second World War.  The course diverts inland for 13 & 14. Not a bad hole, the 13th legs right around a large bunker. The green is somewhat domed and trickier than it appears. The long 14th is the only new hole I question. The hole plays to the right of the old long par 4. Its fairway was slightly concave making for something unusual at Turnberry. That  has been sacrificed for an uphill par 5 which doesn't match the character of the old hole.




More to follow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: May 19, 2024, 03:56:27 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turn My Head TURNBERRY: 2023-24 Winter Tour 1-14
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2024, 05:19:46 PM »
I love the new eleventh. It was originally the idea of George Brown, Turnberry's longtime, now late, course manager, and imo should be named after him.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turn My Head TURNBERRY: 2023-24 Winter Tour 1-14
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2024, 04:59:29 AM »
There used to be a walled area adjacent to the lighthouse. Now it’s gone and there’s a green there.
Guess the new owner has a fixation with walls not just building them but knocking them down too.
Atb

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turn My Head TURNBERRY: 2023-24 Winter Tour 1-14 New
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2024, 02:07:54 PM »
A cracking hole, the short 15th can play quite long. The green seems like its an island in the rough...especially if one misses right.


Another tenacious hole, the 16th slips right then plays over a burn. Much of the time the waste areas are not in play, but they do create a sense of ruggedness about the course. I realize folks are skeptical of this type of feature; count me as a fan. The waste areas beat rough most of the time.


A look at the approach from well forward of the drive zone.


The muscular finish continues with 17.


The uphill approach justifies the Lang Whang name of the hole.


Duel in the Sun ends the round in optical style. The first set of bunkers are set at an awkward angle to the fairway. They effectively narrow the driving zone. 


The approach gets lost in the scenery, there is that much going on. With the addition of the ballroom, the clubhouse doesn't quite set right...the buildings overlap. I am surprised this visual wasn't rectified.


For all the hoopla, while long, the hole is somewhat benign.




I don't think there is any question Turnberry is much improved compared to the course which hosted the Open in 2009. Not many would suggest that Turnberry is not a fabulous course, for it surely is. Holes such as 6, 10, 15 & 16 make a sound case for greatness. However, I am not convinced any hole other than 10 is a candidate for All-Scotland. For this reason, I wouldn't place Turnberry among the very best of GB&I. On the flipside, Turnberry is a highly playable course for handicap golfers. Pars can be difficult to achieve, but the course doesn't generally require a pound of flesh to experience its pleasures. This is somewhat rare for championship courses.  2*  2024

Previous Stops on the 2023-24 Winter Tour

Cleeve Hill
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49796.0.html

Huntercombe
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,32228.0.html

Minehead
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,72699.0.html

Westward Ho!
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,66480.0.html

Notts
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33988.0.html

Goswick
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,64104.0.html

Kilspindie
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,66109.msg1581740.html#msg1581740

North Berwick
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59363.0.html

Renaissance
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,58937.0.html

Gatehouse
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,72768.0.html

St Medan
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,72782.0.html

Planned 2023-24 Winter Tour Stops

Askernish
Benbecula
IoH
Traigh
Aberdovey

Ciao
« Last Edit: May 19, 2024, 04:00:59 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

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