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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Notable NORTH FORELAND GC & NORTHCLIFFE COURSE New
« on: June 10, 2023, 12:03:26 PM »
Kent is rightly famous for its links of Sandwich, Deal, Princes & Littlestone. There are, however, a few intriguing inland courses which the keen observer of the game will relish. Of this type Knole Park is likely the course which is most prominent. Chart Hills, London Club, Canterbury and Wildernesse each have their trumpeters. Yet it is North Foreland which has long had my attention. The club may be more well known for its famous approaching course, perhaps the first of its kind in England. To me this is surprising. Not because the Northcliffe lacks charm, but because the main course is so much more varied. The original course was built at Kingsgate (Broadstairs) in 1903. The area takes its name from the bay which was called St Bartholomew's Gate until King Charles II landed there in 1683 and altered the name.

By the next decade four more holes were added to make 13 in total.  A few years later the club had more grandiose ideas. This is when ACH Harmsworth (later Lord Northcliffe) became involved.  More land was secured and Herbert Fowler was engaged to complete a new 18 design. This is about the same time Tom Simpson joined the firm making it difficult to know if he was involved in designing the main course. Fowler and Simpson were called back after WWI to make further improvements and I suspect this is when the Northcliffe Course was also built. Frank Harris Bros constructed the short course so it would seem little expense was spared for this 15 acre development adjacent to the main course.  During WWII the army used nine holes of the main course for ammunution storage and an ack ack gun (anti-aircraft weapon) placement. By 1950ish Colt's partner, J Morrison, rebuilt the course. I am told not much has changed since then, but with a road running through the property I am left to wonder.

Lord Northcliffe died in 1922, but not before he appointed Abe Mitchell as the pro shortly after completing military service in France. Mitchell of course had strong ties with the Ryder Cup being the tutor of Sam Ryder at Verualam GC. Mitchell would play on three Ryder Cup teams from 1929-1933. At the 1933 Southport & Ainsdale matches Mitchell was 46, comfortably the oldest playing competitor. It was also at S&A where Mitchell was on the winning side of one of the most lopsided matches in Ryder Cup history. Mitchell beat eventual two-time major winner Olin Dutra 9&8....ouch.   

   

The English love their signs  8)
   

The opener plays downhill. As the first hole, its a shame the entire valley isn't on view from the tee. Its an impressive first look at the course. The club is working on a bunker project which commenced in 2019.
 

 

The green is treacherously close to lost ball territory.
   

Behind the green.


The second is a reachable in one par four....good hole.


A brutal two-shotter, the third feels a bit underwhelming after the opening two holes. But there is a sting at its tail. The cut line through the trees on the right is curious.






Still marching toward the North Sea, the long 4th is uneventful. The short 5th, plays to a green resting on the white chalk cliffs of Kingsgate adjacent to the folly known as Neptune's Tower. 


More to follow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 19, 2023, 05:37:04 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC (1-5)
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2023, 05:36:14 PM »
The updated bunkering looks to have a Blackwell appearance, which shouldn’t be too surprising given the Fowler/Simpson involvement.
Interested to know if an architect/contractor been involved in the updating, and if so who, or whether all the work including the necessary research etc has been undertaken by the clubs staff/greenkeeping team.

Atb

Robin_Hiseman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC (1-5)
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2023, 06:31:03 AM »
I heard a rumour it was done in-house, but am happy to be corrected by those who know better.


 
2024: RSt.D; Mill Ride; Milford; Notts; JCB, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (N), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Fran, Epsom, Casa Serena, Hayling, Co. Sligo, Strandhill, Carne, Cleeve Hill

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC (1-5)
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2023, 06:41:08 AM »
I heard a rumour it was done in-house, but am happy to be corrected by those who know better.

Closest course to my house but I still haven't played there. Must fix that. It is a beautiful spot for sure. The nearby Joss Bay is our favourite of the Thanet beaches.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2023, 05:50:35 AM by Adam Lawrence »
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Enno Gerdes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC (1-5)
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2023, 08:29:06 AM »
Very happy to see this course profiled. It's the first golf course I ever played in the UK, while on holiday in Broadstairs (for those interested, the holiday cottages left and right of the lighthouse are excellent).


I preferred the second nine over the first nine, curious to see what Sean's verdict is!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC (1-5) New
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2023, 10:17:06 AM »
It is my understanding the bunker work is in house, but I also know that Mackenzie & Ebert were engaged by the club. For the most part the bunkering looks good and the placement is generally good. I think this style suits a chalk soil site. The one issue is the bunker size isn't varied. Too many bunkers are roughly the same size. This seems to be an issue at many clubs.

NORTH FORELAND TOUR CONT

At this point its difficult to pay proper attention for the would be Kingsgate Castle hangs ominously between the course and town. This pile of stones was built as stables in the 1760s!  The castle was converted into a hotel before later being redeveloped as flats.


Having nowhere to go, the 6th heads inland. Playing in a contrary wind set up several downwind holes which presented a choice of being aggressive by playing into the heart of bunkers or laying back. For those with a card in hand it is usually best to exercise restraint. From the tee, fairways look spacious, but often times bunkers pinch play considerably. The 6th is one such hole. To add to the grief, the green runs strongly away from play. After crossing a road we play once again to the cliffside boundary of the property for the short 7th. A bit like the first, the grade of the land masks the outstanding shaping around the green.




Probably the best hole on the course, the 8th could well be an All-England candidate.  The 446 listed yardage must be brutal in normal conditions, but on this day, with a steady 15-18 mph wind at our tails, firm ground and downhill, the yardage was the least of the worries. As seen in this photo, the rough is fierce. Fairways seem wide, but I am guessing many think otherwise come late June and July.




Not a great place to be.


Excellent shaping.




The 9th has been inviting play from the middle of the 8th fairway. Another bruiser par 4 of 446 yards which makes for three two shotters coming in around the 450 mark on the front nine. Perhaps a near perfect balance with the three short par 4s.


More to follow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: August 31, 2023, 02:08:36 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC (1-9)
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2023, 12:22:32 PM »
North Foreland Tour Cont

Playing downhill into a good headwind, the 10th was just reachable for me in two. Yet another good green. 




A lovely short hole. Its satisfying that the architect resisted placing a right bunker to frame the 11th green.


The 12th is a brutal hole. Uphill, between bunkers, this 419 yarder played like a par 5. There is a mound just visible in the far distance on the left....this is where the green is located.


This green is very reminiscent of Beau Desert's 5th, another Fowler gem. 




More to follow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: June 14, 2023, 10:56:33 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC (1-12)
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2023, 01:28:40 PM »
Course gallery on the club's website to supplement Sean's fine tour.

https://www.northforeland.co.uk/course_gallery

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC (1-12)
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2023, 08:34:18 AM »
Sean,
Thanks for this tour. The green complexes look really good.

The 12th does remind me a lot of Beau Desert, though I think at Beau there's no bunker in the mound on the right (is that correct?). But what a hole. Need to dig up my photos.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC (1-12)
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2023, 02:38:57 PM »
Sean,
Thanks for this tour. The green complexes look really good.

The 12th does remind me a lot of Beau Desert, though I think at Beau there's no bunker in the mound on the right (is that correct?). But what a hole. Need to dig up my photos.

Tucky

Correct, no bunker in the 5 Beau Desert mound.

NORTH FORELAND TOUR CONT

13 moves downhill between deceptively pinching fairway bunkers. The bunkers on the left are a harsh reminder of the vagaries of golf.


A wee valley is played through for the 14th. This valley is accentuated by bunkers which block play for all but the brave willing to take on the left gunge.


Within the plateau green is a difficult to access shelf where the hole is located.


15 is Westward Ho and takes us near the house. I would like to see the course in a prevailing wind. It seemed like too many holes had pinching bunkers which were reachable, but difficult to drive past....a massive benefit for long ball hitters. Why not have an Eastward Ho....a snaking downhill par 5. This photo is from well in front of the 16th tee.


More to follow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: June 29, 2023, 02:00:59 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC (1-12)
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2023, 03:56:30 AM »
Another fine tour you've got us into.


I'm a little surprised you liked the 8th so much. It's a banger hole that works best for those as long as the Holloway Rd(). Into the wind the slopes wouldn't work quite so well?


Both times I've played the Club started us from the 10th, which feels more natural and avoids finishing on a par 3.  I do wonder what changes have been made  to the routing.


They are doing fine work with the bunkering but you can see there were more in the past. I love diagonal features on the course and they often seem to get lost. The 14th is A fine example preserved, but they need to find more fairway to the right of the bunkers to tempt more players to take them on.


Quote
"A wee valley is played through for the 14th. This valley is accentuated by bunkers which block play for all but the brave willing to take on the left gunge.



A fine course that passes under the radar. £50 on the County Card (for both courses) is excellent value.

Since discovered the steps down to a local beach are 39 in no and John Buchan was holidaying there when he wrote a certain book.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2023, 03:59:44 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC (1-16) New
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2023, 08:54:31 AM »
Spangles

You spoiled my 78 steps ending! Never mind.

8 is a cracking hole with a great green. Must be near impossible with the wind we had in very keen conditions. 

North Foreland Tour Cont

The same valley which features on 10, 15 & 16 troubles us on the 17th. The 444 yards is also a bother! This makes five par 4s well over 400 yards.


Below is an aerial circa 1922 of the approaching course. The 17th green and old fairway bunkers can just be made out upper left. I wonder if this is how Fowler/Simpson left the hole or if their work wasn't done yet?
 

There is no let up on 18 despite being a par 3. 190 yards sharply uphill adds to the long list of demanding holes.  The course certainly feels longer than its listed 6198 yards.


I must say North Foreland's quality took me by surprise. Several greens and surrounds are wonderfully shaped. I suspect Simpson was involved, but the above aerial throws shade over the issue. As with all Fowler/Simpson projects, it would be interesting to know details. The front nine seems to have better variety of hole yardage, but the back nine explores more interesting terrain. It all makes for a grand game of golf!  North Foreland is a worth while addition to a Kent links trip. 1*  2023

For some reason the boys working in the proshop gave us courtesy of the Northcliffe Course. I decided to walk the 18 holes consisting solely of short holes. It is thought the Northcliffe was the first "approaching course" in England. The aerial makes it clear the original course would have been highly entertaining, which is saying something because it looked bloody good to me a few weeks ago. It's clear the greens are nowhere near their original size and subsequently their relationship with the bunkering is a bit compromised. Speaking of bunkers, the scheme has been drastically altered. In truth, the course looks to be a mere shadow of the original design.

 

A few photos to offer an idea of the course.

#3
 

#5
 

#7...nasty hole, but perhaps the decent representation of what Simpson was trying to achieve. Franks Harris Bros built the course.
 

 

#12
 

#15


#17


There is a well located halfway house which I suspect is the house of choice for many of the Northcliffe visitors.


Broadstairs is not a town without some charm nor humour.




Ciao
« Last Edit: August 31, 2023, 02:13:52 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC & NORTHCLIFFE COURSE
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2023, 09:10:59 AM »
The Northcliffe course was the scene of Henry Longhurst's first tournament win, aged fourteen in a competition for juniors in, I think, 1923, in the summer before he went to public school at Charterhouse. PB 'Laddie' Lucas, son of the secretary of Prince's and later to go on to fame as an RAF Spitfire pilot, was second, aged either six or seven (players received strokes according to their age).


Also, in Sean's photo of Viking Bay at Broadstairs, you can see, behind the beach huts at the top of the strand, the function room of the Broadstairs Pavilion, where Emma and I had our wedding party (not the actual wedding, that was a socially distanced Covid ceremony the year before) in October 2021. Happy days. We went onto the beach for photos.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC & NORTHCLIFFE COURSE
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2023, 09:42:05 AM »
I love short holes in the corners of a property-very cool looking hole
« Last Edit: June 20, 2023, 09:43:59 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC & NORTHCLIFFE COURSE
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2023, 10:05:57 AM »
It might just be me but the bunker shaping looks very formulaic and repetitive. The scalloped edges scream at me the obvious "re-do our bunkers and make them look frilly edged like all the cool clubs have these days". Any one bunker is not really that bad but they all seem to have the same template as far as the scalloping goes, and it's just not working for me.


Really good looking course that I'm sure I'd love in spite of my critique.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC & NORTHCLIFFE COURSE
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2023, 11:00:23 AM »
Thank you Sean, looks very appealing.
Love the short course. Wish there were more. Suspect many of the holes on the short course would enhance many a full length courses.
Atb

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC & NORTHCLIFFE COURSE
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2023, 06:45:25 PM »
Sean:


Thanks for the tour.  I have looked at this course before on Google Earth but did not imagine it had so much elevation change!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC & NORTHCLIFFE COURSE
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2023, 01:42:20 PM »
Sean:


Thanks for the tour.  I have looked at this course before on Google Earth but did not imagine it had so much elevation change!


The course isn't terribly hilly, but I too was surprised by the elevation changes. I thought North Foreland would be a fairly flat course.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC (1-12)
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2023, 10:14:41 AM »

This is the hole I most look forward to playing. Love a hole that sweeps in a curve, rather than strictly a dogleg. There's lots of room to the right of the bunkers, but when you can see the flag off the tee....  Downhill this looks a sitter for your drive, but hitting that green seems an issue, especially when the ball has to bounced in.



13 moves downhill between deceptively pinching fairway bunkers. The bunkers on the left are a harsh reminder of the vagaries of golf.



Let's make GCA grate again!

Blake Conant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC & NORTHCLIFFE COURSE
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2023, 10:28:24 AM »
Thanks for the tour, Sean. Brian Schneider and I hope to get there next month!

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC & NORTHCLIFFE COURSE
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2023, 11:09:50 AM »
Played North Foreland on a Deal/Sandwich trip a few years back.
very enjoyable, and definitely a lot of elevation change.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Notable NORTH FORELAND GC & NORTHCLIFFE COURSE New
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2023, 05:41:22 AM »
Thanks for the tour, Sean. Brian Schneider and I hope to get there next month!

You guys would probably love the short course.

Ciao
« Last Edit: August 31, 2023, 02:16:17 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing