[jeffwarne]

What are the Most natural/least constructed/Most "found" courses?
AND minimally maintained with minimal artificial irrigation other than greens



What are some in each region?



USA
Uk/Ireland
Australia/NZ
Rest of world

[Tom_Doak]

What are the Most natural/least constructed/Most "found" courses?
AND minimally maintained with minimal artificial irrigation other than greens



What are some in each region?



USA
Uk/Ireland
Australia/NZ
Rest of world

It all depends on the definition.  Sand Hills is very very natural in terms of contour, but without the Ogallala aquifer and a big irrigation system, it would all be gone in a year or two.


Garden City Golf Club is a favorite in terms of rudimentary construction and strategy, but it's not built to look natural.


I am not really sure there's anything in the USA that fits the bill.  I'm probably just forgetting.


For the UK, we did a short list of the "most natural" courses for volume 1 of The Confidential Guide:


Askernish, Machrihanish Dunes, Westward Ho!, and Mulranny.  You could probably add Brora and Brancaster, even though the sleepered bunkers at Brancaster are obviously an artificial element.

[Michael Morandi]

Baltre/County Louth?  I haven’t been there in 25 years but found it “found”.  But you could say the same about more than a few British Isles courses in the seaside dunes. Tom Doak is right: few, if any USA courses fits the entire criteria.

[jeffwarne]

I'm going to venture a bet there are quite a few US courses that are pretty natural with minimal irrigation besides greens.
There were several surrounding Athens GA when I was in college that had sprung up on farms with only greens irrigation with no dirt moved besides greens and tees. Surely there are some rudimentary courses out there in the rural US that fit the bill for minimal construction.
Goat Hill on Shelter Island is very minimally constructed, with shaping only occurring on the greens(which are outstanding) and tees as near as I can tell.(which explains 6 blind approaches and 4 blind drives)
They only have greens irrigation.


Highland Links in Truro Mass? No fairway irrigation there.


The first place i thought of was Mulranny
Also in Ireland I'd add the original 9 at Gweedore(haven't seen the additional 5)
Rudimentary shaping on the farmland holes(greens) and lay of the lay land greens on the seaside links/meadow holes.
Durness?
In Wales-Pennard?


What about the course in the Himalayas Tom?

[Michael Morandi]

That course on Shelter Island nay be natural but…

[Ally Mcintosh]

Baltre/County Louth?  I haven’t been there in 25 years but found it “found”.  But you could say the same about more than a few British Isles courses in the seaside dunes. Tom Doak is right: few, if any USA courses fits the entire criteria.

Baltray is the next level down (in terms of naturalness) than the courses Tom mentions. Whilst it is very much found with minimal fairway work, it has quite a few built greens and many tweaks over the years.


However, it’s close. There are a lot of other links courses that fall in to the same bracket as Baltray. And then a lot that have had significantly more work done to them.


Baltray have just hired M&E, their 3rd or 4th choice of architect in the last 15 years.


Spey Bay could be added to Tom’s list.

[Adam Lawrence]

Askernish

[Thomas Dai]

Good topic Jeff and one near to my heart.

May I suggest that courses with no piped irrigation at all should be the starting point. GB&I wise there'll be a few rural and rustic courses, likely mostly 9-holers, that fall within this category.

Then there will be a few courses with no piped irrigation but where they will occasionally use a tractor towing a water tanker and a bloke with a hosepipe.

Then we move into those courses with piped irrigation, firstly those without sprinklers, secondly those with.
As for highlighting one course it would be ...... https://golfclubatlas.com/countries/minchinhampton-golf-club-old-course/?
atb

PS - Reflecting for a moment maybe those with sand greens should be the starting point.

[Mark Pearce]

Aren't a very large number of links courses pretty natural?  I can't think much earth was moved to create Elie, for instance, it's about as "laid out on the land" as I can imagine. Unless the presence of bunkering disqualifies, I guess.

[Adam Lawrence]

Very few older links have much in the way of fairway grading. What separates Askernish from other links is the greens, which are almost entirely just laid out on the natural grade. Eric Iverson did a little work on the seventh and sixteenth, and the sixth has been rebuilt a couple of times by Gordon Irvine, but aside from that they are almost entirely natural.

[Niall C]

Clearly Jeff is looking for tips for future trips 


Speaking from a UK context I think there are still quite a lot of very basic rural courses dating from pre-WWI that haven't been buggered about with where the only construction would have comprised small, basic platform tees (one per hole), a minimal amount of bunkering (if any) and basic green complexes. Essentially lay of the land type courses built on grazing land where the interest came from natural ground movement and existing structures like hedges and walls. 


To find these courses you DON'T follow the money, you do the opposite and look for courses where the clubhouse is basically a timber hut with an honesty box outside for greenfees. Those type of clubs basically have never had the money to "upgrade" their course. Good examples that I've played recently include a little nine-holer near Glasgow called Beith, and another nine-holer in the SW of Scotland called New Galloway (did I mention I'd had a hole in one there ?  )


Niall

[jeffwarne]

That course on Shelter Island nay be natural but…

And that's why we can't have nice things....] .


That course" is a wonderful,highly reliable filter.

[Bernie Bell]

Wawenock GC, Walpole, Maine (Stiles and Van Kleek, 1928).

[jeffwarne]

Clearly Jeff is looking for tips for future trips 


Speaking from a UK context I think there are still quite a lot of very basic rural courses dating from pre-WWI that haven't been buggered about with where the only construction would have comprised small, basic platform tees (one per hole), a minimal amount of bunkering (if any) and basic green complexes. Essentially lay of the land type courses built on grazing land where the interest came from natural ground movement and existing structures like hedges and walls. 


To find these courses you DON'T follow the money, you do the opposite and look for courses where the clubhouse is basically a timber hut with an honesty box outside for greenfees. Those type of clubs basically have never had the money to "upgrade" their course. Good examples that I've played recently include a little nine-holer near Glasgow called Beith, and another nine-holer in the SW of Scotland called New Galloway (did I mention I'd had a hole in one there ?  )


Niall

Well yes. New trips would be nice,
(Loved Wawenock last fall Bernie.)


But frankly I'm more concerned with the absurd amounts of money seemingly required for new construction.
This is of course brought on by absurd expectations of not only what a course should be, but also how it is expected to be maintained.


Everybody wants affordable golf,but few seem to want or develop affordable expectations.


Golf to me is best as a walk in the unique environment of a course.
Lately,it seems the environment must be created from scratch to suit the expectations of the driving force,  architect and consumer. rather than embracing the natural characteristics of a site-even one with some limitations.


Maybe we need more expert  finders/routers and less  builders(talent at the former (coukd)reduce the need for copious amounts of the latter)


I guess the real problem is the actual $ minimalist course would struggle to compete with the multi million dollar overspend course slowly on it's way out but subsidized by multiple waves of increasigly less deep pocketed owners.

[Tim Martin]

It would seem that finding greens and surrounds at grade is the toughest part of the equation to satisfy.

[Tom_Doak]

I'm going to venture a bet there are quite a few US courses that are pretty natural with minimal irrigation besides greens.
There were several surrounding Athens GA when I was in college that had sprung up on farms with only greens irrigation with no dirt moved besides greens and tees.

What about the course in the Himalayas Tom?

Yes, there are tons of courses where they only built greens and tees, all over the world, if that's your standard.  The majority of those are 2's on the Doak Scale.  To me, the special few are where they didn't build the greens, so much as found them.  St. Andrews Beach and Dismal River are as close as I've ever done in that department.


The Himalayan Golf Course is natural in concept, but it actually took quite a bit of work to build. 

[jeffwarne]

I'm going to venture a bet there are quite a few US courses that are pretty natural with minimal irrigation besides greens.
There were several surrounding Athens GA when I was in college that had sprung up on farms with only greens irrigation with no dirt moved besides greens and tees.

What about the course in the Himalayas Tom?

Yes, there are tons of courses where they only built greens and tees, all over the world, if that's your standard.  The majority of those are 2's on the Doak Scale.  To me, the special few are where they didn't build the greens, so much as found them.  St. Andrews Beach and Dismal River are as close as I've ever done in that department.

Yes.That's the standard
Even better if the greens were found as well.
I'll throw in single line irrigation as well to sweeten the pot.
Walk mowed approaches automatically disqualifies a course.


What are the best of these?

[Thomas Dai]

……absurd expectations of not only what a course should be, but also how it is expected to be maintained.
Everybody wants affordable golf but few seem to want or develop affordable expectations.

Well said.
And one of the poster boys enhancing expectations is on TV this week.
Atb

[Tim Martin]

I'm going to venture a bet there are quite a few US courses that are pretty natural with minimal irrigation besides greens.
There were several surrounding Athens GA when I was in college that had sprung up on farms with only greens irrigation with no dirt moved besides greens and tees.

What about the course in the Himalayas Tom?

Yes, there are tons of courses where they only built greens and tees, all over the world, if that's your standard.  The majority of those are 2's on the Doak Scale.  To me, the special few are where they didn't build the greens, so much as found them.  St. Andrews Beach and Dismal River are as close as I've ever done in that department.

Yes.That's the standard
Even better if the greens were found as well.
I'll throw in single line irrigation as well to sweeten the pot.
Walk mowed approaches automatically disqualifies a course.


What are the best of these?

Extra points for sheep grazing grass mowers?

[Adam Lawrence]

I'm going to venture a bet there are quite a few US courses that are pretty natural with minimal irrigation besides greens.
There were several surrounding Athens GA when I was in college that had sprung up on farms with only greens irrigation with no dirt moved besides greens and tees.

What about the course in the Himalayas Tom?

Yes, there are tons of courses where they only built greens and tees, all over the world, if that's your standard.  The majority of those are 2's on the Doak Scale.  To me, the special few are where they didn't build the greens, so much as found them.  St. Andrews Beach and Dismal River are as close as I've ever done in that department.

Yes.That's the standard
Even better if the greens were found as well.
I'll throw in single line irrigation as well to sweeten the pot.

Askernish has zero irrigation. Not even greens. No artificial chemicals are ever applied to the course; the only fertiliser ever used is seaweed-based and occasionally applied to greens.

[jeffwarne]

I'm going to venture a bet there are quite a few US courses that are pretty natural with minimal irrigation besides greens.
There were several surrounding Athens GA when I was in college that had sprung up on farms with only greens irrigation with no dirt moved besides greens and tees.

What about the course in the Himalayas Tom?

Yes, there are tons of courses where they only built greens and tees, all over the world, if that's your standard.  The majority of those are 2's on the Doak Scale.  To me, the special few are where they didn't build the greens, so much as found them.  St. Andrews Beach and Dismal River are as close as I've ever done in that department.

Yes.That's the standard
Even better if the greens were found as well.
I'll throw in single line irrigation as well to sweeten the pot.
Walk mowed approaches automatically disqualifies a course.


What are the best of these?





Extra points for sheep grazing grass mowers?

Yes!
Mainly because we'll then see creative short game choices rather than micro-turf anxiety produced putters.

[Sven Nilsen]

The old Sheep Ranch?

[Thomas Dai]

My list of GB&I animal grazed courses is as follows. There may be the odd omission or mistaken inclusion and animal grazing is seasonal.

Westward Ho!/RND
Askernish
Lahinch (Ire) (the famous goats!)
Pennard
Southerndown
Brora
Sutton Coldfield (tagged cattle)
Machrihanish Dunes
Clyne
Kington
Cleeve Hill
Knole Park (Kent) (deer)
Yelverton
Appleby
Tavistock
Minchinhampton Old
Beverley & East Riding (Yorks)
Baildon (Yorks)
Halifax Yorks
Wrangaton (1st-9) Devon)
West Monmouthshire (South Wales)
Merthyr Tydfil
Painswick
Durness
Church Stretton
Lobden (Lancs)
Mulranny (County Mayo, Ire)
Gweedore (Donegal, Ire)
Otway (Donegal, Ire)
New Forest (Hampshire)
Bramshaw (Hamps)
Burley (Hamps)
Isle of Harris
Fair Isle
Fort Augustus
Kingarrock
Knighton (Mid-Wales)
Machynylech (Mid-Wales)
Holywell (North Wales)
Barra
lona.
Benbecula
Colonsay
Royal Guernsey
Cockermouth
Ullapool
Traigh
Gairloch
Lybster
Helmsdale
Bonar Bridge
Portmahomac
Newtonmore
Raey

There may be others and since I put this list together a while back some courses may have subsequently stopped using grazing.

Atb

[Ira Fishman]

I remember Kilspindie having greens at grade. They struck me as more found than built.


I guess that they had to knock down sections of the stone fence though.

[Kalen Braley]

I'm going to venture a bet there are quite a few US courses that are pretty natural with minimal irrigation besides greens.
There were several surrounding Athens GA when I was in college that had sprung up on farms with only greens irrigation with no dirt moved besides greens and tees.

What about the course in the Himalayas Tom?

Yes, there are tons of courses where they only built greens and tees, all over the world, if that's your standard.  The majority of those are 2's on the Doak Scale.  To me, the special few are where they didn't build the greens, so much as found them.  St. Andrews Beach and Dismal River are as close as I've ever done in that department.

I've seen lots of these in my road trip travels all over the Western US, and I'm not sure they even rise to DS 2 status...

But they certainly do fit Jeff's original description: flat courses with flat bunkers, tees, and greens, built on a flat landscape.

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