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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Drifting in Donegal Dos:Rosapenna ST PATRICK'S
« on: November 30, 2022, 12:04:37 PM »


After purchasing the 350-acre property in 1976, Dermot Walsh engaged Eddie Hackett to design a course. The 1982 design was not completed until 1996! After laying the last bit of turf Hackett would die a few months later, making the Maheramagorgan his last course. Walsh originally planned to build one course and a 300-unit caravan site just about where the 4th hole is now. He changed his mind when it became clear that EU regulations on Special Areas of Conservation etc would come into force in 1997. It was imperative to get the second course built. The unlikely Joanne O’Haire designed the Tra Mor course just in the nick of time. Because these were two existing courses, the land would be grandfathered for possible future golf redevelopment.

Eddie Hackett


Martin Hawtree had been called in maybe five years after the Tra Mor course was finished to offer some improvement ideas and many were implemented to Hackett’s design. Later, Relton Development Group obtained the property and in 2006 engaged Jack Nicklaus to do a complete redesign of the 36 holes as part of a 5* resort. Not long later the project collapsed due to a lack of finance. Nicklaus had already torn up some holes which eventually became blowout sandy areas; a few of which T Doak incorporated into his design.

After biding their time, the Casey’s, long-time owners of the next door Rosapenna Resort, purchased St Patrick’s in 2012 and commissioned T Doak to build a course. The design was largely finished in 2013, but the proper finance plan didn’t emerge until six years later at which point the design was finalized and work began. St Patrick’s opened in 2021 and was soon heralded as one of the best courses in Ireland. It is hoped a world class design will raise the profile of the resort by complimenting the P Ruddy designed Sandy Hills Links and much altered Old Tom Morris course not to mention the many other quality Donegal courses.





I first heard of St Patrick’s circa 2004 on a GolfClubAtlas thread. At that time the courses were barely playable, but there were some stirrings.

Little did I know that Tom Doak would invite me to his Renaissance Cup to be held at St Pat's in September 2022. There is currently little in the way of clubhouse facilities for St Patrick’s. In fact, despite nearly touching 14 & 15 at OTM’s Valley 9 and Sandy Link’s 6th & 7th, it doesn’t much feel like one is on the Rosapenna property because of the separate entrance south of the main pavilion. There are some plans to build a small house, but during my visit a large marquee served the purpose with distinction.

Clyde Johnson's brilliant mock Player's Cigarettes postcard course plan.  Clyde ought to know the property, he was one of the shapers for the project.




The two nines were originally going to be reversed. I believe Don Placek suggested the idea of switching the nines to create more drama for the opening holes. I reckon it was a good decision for the first is certainly a feast for the eyes. The power of suggestion to cut the corner must be resisted. Stay right and everything opens up.




The opener also signals that the greens will be stimulating. While reshaped, I believe the greensite was on the Tra Mor course.


The three opening holes are played through individual corridors so a sense of wonder as one turns each corner is heightened. I think the entire 2nd hole previously existed on the Tra Mor course.


Just as on the 1st, the second offers a surprise. This time we must wait until nearly at the green to see the death trap on the left. This angle is a bit deceptive because its taken from near the 7th tee. The contours of the green are on full display.


Another look at the 2nd green from near the 7th tee. 


More to follow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 12, 2023, 07:25:29 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-2)
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2022, 02:05:16 PM »
Sean:


It was actually Don Placek, who runs my office, who suggested reversing the nines when he was drawing up the routing, though it's possible he talked with Eric about it, too.  I had it the other way around because I thought 8 and 9 would be great finishing holes, and I wasn't yet confident what we would get out of the present 18th . . . but I was sold on the change because it put the most boring visual stretch of holes at 10-11-12, instead of right at the start, and it got us to the ocean views faster.  Plus, hiding 10-11-12 in the middle allowed me to make them more difficult holes than we would have wanted at the start.


While Don gets credit for that, Eric should take all the credit for the tee shot on the 1st.  My tee on the plan was more to the left, where there was a natural flat spot from the old course . . . but you didn't get a sense from there of what lay around the corner.  Eric found the present tee spot and it turned an awkward hole into a really good one.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-2)
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2022, 02:54:34 PM »
Tom

Thanks. I thought it was a conversation run through Eric, but happy to amend the text. I think the change was smart even though I think 10-12 is a better string of holes...perhaps the best 3 hole stretch on the property. Although, as you say, tough holes, especially 12.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-2)
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2022, 11:39:02 PM »
Thanks Sean
Great post.
Hated to miss the RC this year.
Unfortunate timing as we were hosting the MET PGA.and the logistics got too tight  and (as it turned out)wouldve been impossible given the final round's rain/wind delays at The Bridge.


Very interesting info about the flip.
10 was one of my favorite holes though 1 is pretty amazing too.















"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-2)
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2022, 01:45:31 AM »
The switch of the nines was definitely the right choice.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-2)
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2022, 04:01:45 AM »
The three opening holes are played through individual corridors so a sense of wonder as one turns each corner is heightened.

Well said Sean.


 I have never felt  that sense of enchanted journey more strongly.  And it continues...
Let's make GCA grate again!

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-2)
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2022, 05:44:03 AM »
Saint Pat's is top of the list for 2023.


Sean - Thanks for all your wonderful post and now onto the next holes...
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-2)
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2022, 03:43:56 AM »
One thing that stood out for me from Clyde's layout sketch is 3 of the par 3s are in a similar direction. Is there a reason for this?

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-2)
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2022, 05:43:10 AM »
They couldn’t play more differently than each other, Ben… so it really doesn’t matter. Long par-3, mid-length par-3 and short par-3. If you think about it, being in the same direction almost guarantees different clubs. Opposite directions might equalise dependent on wind.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-2)
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2022, 05:53:00 AM »
They couldn’t play more differently than each other, Ben… so it really doesn’t matter. Long par-3, mid-length par-3 and short par-3. If you think about it, being in the same direction almost guarantees different clubs. Opposite directions might equalise dependent on wind.

If anything about the 3s is similar it is the right to left swing of 3, 5 & 17.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-2)
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2022, 06:10:42 AM »
They couldn’t play more differently than each other, Ben… so it really doesn’t matter. Long par-3, mid-length par-3 and short par-3. If you think about it, being in the same direction almost guarantees different clubs. Opposite directions might equalise dependent on wind.

If anything about the 3s is similar it is the right to left swing of 3, 5 & 17.

Ciao


Ally and Sean,


It just makes the wind direction more predictable irrelevant of distance surely links courses the wind factor is much more important than the length of the hole.


Just questioning whether it was done on purpose fitting in with the layout, make up of ground and the views? having par 3s at different directions makes them more unpredictable. Are there any other links courses that has 3 par 3s in the same direction?


I do find it off putting if the par 3s are in the same direction in golf course layouts and question the Architect for doing this with questions as per above. Variety is the spice of life.   


Cheers
Ben
« Last Edit: December 02, 2022, 06:12:19 AM by Ben Stephens »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-2)
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2022, 08:40:38 AM »
St Pats Tour Cont

Often times three types of holes can swing a course into my favour. The holes between 225 and 300ish yards (if there are any), the long two-shotters (sometimes short par 5s) over ~440 yards and the more conventional length par 3s. St Pat's scores very highly with its short holes. Still wrapped in dunes, the 3rd suggests right to left movement (as is the case for two more short holes), but there are hole locations where left to right shot is the ideal shape.


The beautiful green masks its essential humpback function.


We didn't get much wind, but the hole provides space to allow for a stiff breeze.

Those familiar with Frank Lloyd Wright will know he cherished the concept of compression and release. Wright invited people into an enclosed area which may even feel a bit cramped when one knows the property is more than large enough to offer the expected expansive, grand archictecture. The delayed gratification at #4 is the release for St Pat's. This impression is further accentuated by the 5th continuing the playing corridor...the only two holes which run consecutively in the same direction.




These bunkers conceal obtrusive shaping ahead.




Standing on the tee of the short 5th it is hard to know what is going on with the green, but the first four holes guarantee something is waiting. The green is quite large. One day the small front bunker felt very much in play while the next day it was seemingly irrelevant. The flag is seamed in on the far left.


A look at the green from near the 6th tee.


A light dimmed long distance look at the green from the 16th tee. Its a shame the light is so weird, the goal was to demonstrate how well disguised the course is on the landscape.


More to follow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: May 05, 2023, 05:31:33 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-2)
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2022, 08:53:53 AM »

Are there any other links courses that has 3 par 3s in the same direction?



Well, Murifield, for starters.  But you probably think you could improve it, too.

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-2)
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2022, 09:29:16 AM »

Are there any other links courses that has 3 par 3s in the same direction?



Well, Murifield, for starters.  But you probably think you could improve it, too.


There are probably quite a few examples. If you play from the members tee (at 12 O'Clock rather than the Open tee which is at 2 O'Clock) at the 7th at Birkdale, you have three par 3s (7th, 12th, 14th) that play in basically the same direction. The par three 4th plays in the opposite direction.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2022, 09:30:52 AM by Dónal Ó Ceallaigh »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-2)
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2022, 09:56:58 AM »

Are there any other links courses that has 3 par 3s in the same direction?



Well, Murifield, for starters.  But you probably think you could improve it, too.

The Muirfield 3s are excellent.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-2)
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2022, 02:42:27 PM »

Are there any other links courses that has 3 par 3s in the same direction?



Well, Murifield, for starters.  But you probably think you could improve it, too.


I would question that as the 4th and 13th at Muirfield is on a similar compass angle North East whereas the 16th is more East or South East East - the 7th is the opposite direction.


The three par 3s in a easterly direction are on a very similar compass point which for me dilutes the challenge of the holes wind wise. I check par 3s directions if I haven't been to a course before so that i am aware that club selection is then more vital. 


Of course you would also think you could improve Muirfield as well - don't we all :) however Muirfield is fine as it is
« Last Edit: December 02, 2022, 02:44:00 PM by Ben Stephens »

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-2)
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2022, 02:55:23 PM »

Are there any other links courses that has 3 par 3s in the same direction?



Well, Murifield, for starters.  But you probably think you could improve it, too.


There are probably quite a few examples. If you play from the members tee (at 12 O'Clock rather than the Open tee which is at 2 O'Clock) at the 7th at Birkdale, you have three par 3s (7th, 12th, 14th) that play in basically the same direction. The par three 4th plays in the opposite direction.


Donal you are right however when i last played Birkdale we played the 7th off the yellow tee which was a different angle to the green but very similar line as the 12th and 14th however in the Open the 7th is played to a SW direction from the other side of the 6th green rather than SSE like 12 and 14. so its probably 2 and half holes in the same direction

The other is Brancaster - 10 and 15 are in a similar direction compass wise 6 is slightly off in the from east to west wise compared to 10 and 15 
« Last Edit: December 02, 2022, 03:00:59 PM by Ben Stephens »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-5)
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2022, 07:55:10 AM »
ST PAT'S TOUR CONT

6 & 16 share a similar downhill nature, although each long hole plays down either side of a ridge.  The 6th feels very open to low scoring, but it is a sneaky resilient hole. Big hitters will often be forced to layup shy of broken ground at the base of the valley; leaving an uphill approach over guarding hillocks well shaped into the front of the green. Below is a look at the green from the 4th fairway.


Just off the green to the right.


Largely taken from the 14th Tra Mor course and perhaps a controversial hole, the 7th angles to the right with trouble on the same side. Many will eye the 8th fairway further right and wonder if that isn't a better angle to attack the troublesome green. I didn't try that route, so I don't know. However, it seems to me it would take a big and highly accurate drive to even think an advantage could be gained. The mini-runway tee is off set left of the fairway, almost as if it is pointed in the wrong direction. I tend not to favour downhill tee shots where I can't see the entire valley floor because a section of the tee is blocking the view. There is no question a biting element of the hole is eased when moving up 30 yards to the forward tee, but thats the way it goes.

Be the green to tee transitions long or short, St Pat's provides a plethora of lovely reveals. On one of my journeys through the dunes I did scramble up an incline right of the 7th and was greeted with a stunning long range view of the 5th. There seems to be something which kept me seeking out views of the 5th green.

The 7th tee shot.


Now it is clear why some may want to play up the 8th fairway.


A view of the 7th green from near the lower 8th tee. Loads of space for those who choose not to play aggressively.


The uphill 8th hole corridor was cannibalised from the Tra Mor 18th and joins the 18th as very short 4s. This is somewhat of a breather hole before the killer stretch of 9-12. There is no need for heroics; two safe shots should see a par on the card. That said, the gathering green can provide challenging two putts. The green seen from the 7th fairway.


Although the approach is basically blind, much of the green is readily approachable.


More to follow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: May 30, 2023, 05:00:18 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-8)
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2022, 09:16:04 AM »
Great stuff Sean.


#5 is one of my favorite par 3's anywhere. Such a cool green, and that pin illustrates what I thought was so unique about the hole. That tucked left pin is probably one of the easier ones to access(gravity), with the right pins probably being most difficult.


Interesting thoughts about approaching 7 from 8 fairway(is that a viable/visible option)?

« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 09:20:38 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-5)
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2022, 09:50:02 AM »
ST PAT'S TOUR CONT

6 & 16 share a similar downhill nature, although each par 5 plays down either side of a ridge.


The sixteenth is a par four fwiw Sean.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-5)
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2022, 10:16:24 AM »
ST PAT'S TOUR CONT

6 & 16 share a similar downhill nature, although each par 5 plays down either side of a ridge.

The sixteenth is a par four fwiw Sean.

Thanks. I guess it pays to look at the card, not that the par of the hole matters.

Ciao
« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 02:23:49 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-8)
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2022, 12:34:13 PM »
I heard you say that 7 was controversial when we there (and again here) but I don’t see it. It’s certainly one of the holes where the least work was done: Some minimal green work, clearly the tees and nothing much else is my guess.


OK, the green is hidden over a ridge but it’s a great green site. In some ways, a more conventional links hole than much of the rest of the course. One of my favourites.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-5)
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2022, 04:01:07 AM »
ST PAT'S TOUR CONT

6


Just off the green to the right.







Even though I played this hole 4 times, I have to remind myself just how much the camera flattens things.  It plays like a ski slope down and then that green! I think I was actually chuckling when it was revealed. I'm well above average height but even so the front ledge obscures the back two thirds of the green.
I heard talk that the raised part may be softened or not remain across the whole front of the hole, I hope not. A thing of wonder on a modern course.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-8)
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2022, 04:26:00 AM »
I know what you mean Tony, but it was the contours in front of the sixth green that made me wonder if it was sensible to play a ground-based approach. They're so severe, I think the best idea, if you're focused on score, is to go over them.

It's one of the contradictions about ground contour (of which St. Patrick's has pretty much the most and best I have ever seen): the more there is, the more sensible it is to fly over it if you can.

Adam
« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 05:07:15 AM by Adam Lawrence »
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Drifting in Donegal Dos: ST PAT'S (1-8)
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2022, 04:41:42 AM »
I know what you mean Tony, but it was the contours in front of the sixth green that made me wonder if it was sensible to play a ground-based approach. They're so severe, I think the best idea, if you're focused on score, is to go over them.


It's one of the contradictions about ground contour (of which St. Patrick's has pretty much the most and best I have ever seen): the more there is, the more sensible it is to fly over it if you can.


Adam


Your second paragraph succinctly summarises a point I have been repeating regularly for years. Thank you.


I do think the “wall” in front of the sixth green is slightly overcooked. It’s perhaps the only detail on the entire course that I think the team didn’t get spot on. I have played the sixth hole in the same fashion on almost all of my eight or nine rounds, almost regardless of wind: 4-wood, 5 iron, gap / sand wedge over the hump. Only on the first round did I bump it up, ironically quite successfully. But I realised the percentage favoured the air.

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