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Sean_A

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Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC New
« on: November 05, 2021, 09:00:50 AM »
Originally built in 1781 and known as Beech Hill Park, Hadley Wood's  magnificent clubhouse was used as billets for the City of London Regiment, Royal Fusiliers, during the First World War. The regiment was formed in 1685 and were issued French flintlock fusils. Hence the name Fusiliers. It was thought the normal issue matchlock muskets would carry an added risk of igniting the gunpowder. As escort for artillery, blowing up barrels of gunpowder was generally frowned upon. The regiment has been involved in many historical military campaigns and it happens the regiment surrendered its colours twice during the American Revolution! In more recent times, a young Michael Caine served with the outfit during the Korean War and was involved in heavy fighting against Chinese attacks after US troops crossed the 38th Parallel.



Original Routing.


Current routing.


Not long after WWI, the house was converted for use as the Hadley Wood clubhouse. However, the white single storey pavilions on either end of house were added well before the turn of the century. The golf club opened in 1922 to a Dr A MacKenzie design. A partner of HS Colt’s at this time, it was unusual for the Good Doctor to have new build work this close to London.

The larger area around Hadley Wood was once part of Enfield Chase which was broken up in 1777 and largely deforested. This part north of London is not an area well known for quality golf, The Shire, Trent Park, Enfield, Bush Hill, Old Ford Manor and Dryham Park are some of the many nearby courses. By general consensus, Hadley Wood is the best of the lot. 

The current course is considerably altered from the original design. It seems as though six holes are not part of Dr Mac’s original 18 holes; 3, 4 and 10-13. I think the current 3rd green may be the 7th green from the abandoned nine holes due to 40 acres being given over to WWII crop production. The 4th uses the orignal 3rd green and the 13th, while a different corridor, uses the original 13th green.  The 10th may be the only fully intact hole remaining from the abandoned nine holes. At one time there were 27 holes which seems as though it would have been a somewhat cramped property which necessitated an awkward walk for the added nine holes. I believe Dr Mac designed these holes and they were built sometime later, perhaps the early 30s. After WWII the course was reconfigured around current holes 3-4 and 10-13.  As suggested above, parts of the abandoned nine holer were cannabalized and some new work was added. For some reason, the southwest corner of the property (land south of the current 13th) was stripped of its holes.  I don't know who did the new work, but it would seem the vast majority of what exists today is by the design of Dr Mac, although not as a singular course. 

Perhaps an inauspicious start, the first is hidden away from the house and doesn't represent the high end of Hadley Wood's quality.  That said, not surprisingly, the greens are the star of the show. Despite the poor quality photo, the contours of the green are evident.


Playing over one of a series of ponds on the property, the second features another fine green.


Turning back toward the house, while not an original hole, the short 3rd is a keeper.






A tight legger left, the 4th plays uphill to what I think is the original 3rd green.  The putting surface is much more sloped than it appears.


5 & 6 play down the eastern boundary of the property and signal the start of better golf. Principal's Nose bunkers tighten the drive target for longer hitters.


The 5th green is well raised and large, as are many on the course.  I can't help but think the design needs an archie's  keen eye to enhance the green sites with more sympathetic cut lines. 


Incredibly deceptive, the shaping masks the steep right to left cant of the 6th green. I strongly suspect Franks Harris Bros built the original course!


Another squirrely green, the short 7th plays downhill and the green flows with the terrain.  This is a seriously good and tough hole which measures a mere 134 yards (in praise of yellow tees!). It happens that the best two short holes (7 & 17) are the shorter ones...and Dr Mac designs....more or less.




More to follow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: September 06, 2023, 10:49:22 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Brett Meyer

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC 1-7
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2021, 07:55:57 AM »
Hadley Wood was one of the last courses that I played during my three year stay in London when I was running out of new courses to visit. As you said Sean, there isn't much north of London. The only other course out this way that I visited was Ashridge, which is a bit further north and west. It's probably a bit better than Hadley Wood but also more difficult to get to if you're coming from London, making it (for me) a wash between them.


The guys in the proshop were a bit surprised that I, an American, had heard about the course and made the trip up there but I'm glad that I did. It was something like £65 all day and as you can tell from the photos, there's a lot of good stuff there. As Sean mentions, the greens are very good. There's a lot of variety in them with several falling front-to-back (1,3,7). I especially like 1 and 7, both of which I think are originals. 7 is an excellent short par 3, with subtle tiers in its deep fall-away green. I'd say that the par 3s are the class of the course which is interesting because 2 of the 4 aren't MacKenzie originals (3 and 10). The other great thing about the course is the bunkers, which are well-placed and very well-shaped. I'll add more comments as you go but overall, I found Hadley Wood to be completely satisfying. Not a great course and not high on the list of courses around London that you should see, but one where I'd be happy to play most of my golf.


Not sure that I'll be able to generate any discussion on it because that I'm probably one of about 3 people in the world who has played them both, but Hadley Wood compares favorably to the another MacKenzie course that I've played, the University of Michigan course. The greens might be a bit more interesting and the terrain is certainly wilder at U of M, but I thought that the bunkering was better at Hadley Wood. Both courses could use tree removal (more at U of M) but I think that it's a pretty tight competition between them.

Sean_A

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC 1-7
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2021, 10:47:20 AM »
Interesting comparison to UM. Overall, I think UM is a bit better in most areas which are important to me. I am still not clear why the Dr Mac design wasn't kept for 10-13 at HW. However, the most shocking aspect of HW is the lack of views to the awesome clubhouse. That is THE view of the property and it is neglected due to so many unnecessary trees. The lack of THE view didn't hit me until the 9th when I fully expected to be awed because the hole essentially plays toward the house. Extremely disappointing.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

David_Tepper

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC 1-7
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2021, 02:29:57 PM »
Nice pic of the clubhouse here:

https://www.hadleywoodgc.com/

Sean_A

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC 1-7 New
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2021, 01:34:49 PM »
HADLEY WOOD TOUR CONT

The three-shot 8th starts out on low ground with an obscured uphill tee shot. With greenside bunkers left and right, the false front green is easier approached from head-on.  Not unusual for Dr Mac or Ross, two architects who often employed sloping/contoured greens, being pin high is not desirable. Staying below the hole is at a premium, for all but the best players this will likely mean trying to bunt an approach up the false front. My mind's eye sees trees cleared well left of the green to expose the ridge flowing into the putting surface. There are also trees and bunkers just in shot short and right of the green which are dreadful.


Running adjacent to the 8th and back to the green, the modest length 9th is a handsome hole. There is a depression with rough grass just beyond the left shadows which I think is the remnant of a bunker which is meant to link up with the nearby right bunker. Cunnin' Golf has been engaged by the club to work on the course.  I think this bunker may be a project for this winter.


The shaping near the green is exceptional.  However, it seems to me that this view is meant to fully showcase the clubhouse (above and left of the green).  There are various vantage points around the course which need tree removal to take advantage of this noble building.


After an awkward walk across the 2nd fairway, we come to the unoriginal 183 yard 10th.  The hole plays over water or from left of the water, hence the odd bunker scheme. I suspect the left tee hole is the lone survivor of the Dr Mac added nine holes when it was #8.


The uphill 11th would be far more inspirational with full views of the house to will golfers up the incline, but as is, the hole feels a bit of a slog. Directly in front of the house for the 12th! I like the non-traditional split of 7 and 11 hole loops. 


Moving right around a bunker and dangerously close to a pack of gorse, the downhill 12th is far more exciting than the previous hole. Perhaps the best green on the course, the hole location is very dicey!




More to follow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: September 06, 2023, 10:56:19 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Brett Meyer

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC 1-12
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2021, 06:38:49 AM »
Sean, one of the things that I really liked about 11 is that when you reach the fairway, you get that magnificent view of the clubhouse. I didn't expect that, so I thought it was great. There's a lot to be said for your suggestion that tree removal around the course would enable you to see it from several points and that that would enhance the course. I suspect that I agree with this, but the approach on 11 was a bit of a 'big reveal' and I liked that.


Here's the view that I liked:






To push my U of M comparison, you note--correctly in my view--that trees are a problem at Hadley Wood. But I think that they're less of a problem here than at U of M because while they clutter the course and deprive it of what could be some really nice sweeping views, they're less of a functional problem on individual holes than at U of M. The really bad one is 13, where the trees on the right are really messing up the hole. But I think that the only other hole where they disrupted a shot was the drive on 6. Otherwise the trees are only where you shouldn't be hitting it anyway. At U of M you have multiple holes where trees disrupt normal shots (3,4,8,etc.). Worse, there are a lot of spruce trees at U of M (the notorious trees on 3) which are the worst kind of trees on a golf course. So I agree that Hadley Wood would be better with a lot of tree removal, but with the exception of 1 or 2 holes, they're not messing up otherwise good holes.


To some of your individual hole comments: I liked the 10th hole. Maybe the bunkering was a bit stern around the green but it looks good and I think that the hole works as the course's tough par 3. It's still plenty playable from the ~200 yard back tees because the bunkers left are a bit short of the green and the green is deep. A fade really helps to a back-right pin. I wouldn't say it's as good a hole because the attractiveness of the setting counts, but there's at least as much to think about here as on the 4th hole at Swinley.


As you mention, the 12th green is great. But it's also a good driving hole because the bunker cuts into the fairway right where a modest length hitter (i.e. me) wants to hit it. It'd be an easy drive for long hitters but it's fairway bunkering like this, which is present on several holes that led to my comment that the bunkering is a strength of the course.


The drive on 12:







Neil_Crafter

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC 1-12
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2021, 09:43:44 PM »
Nice tour Sean. Thanks for sharing this.


Just wanted to comment on your suggestion that it was "unusual" for MacKenzie to have work "this close to London". He had more than a few London area projects over the years. Here are the ones I've been able to find:


Hadley Wood - 27 holes new course
Tooting Bec - substantial remodelling
Northwick Park - remodelling
Chertsey - remodelling
Dulwich & Sydenham Hill - remodelling and drainage
London Flying Club - new 9 hole course
Stanmore - remodelling
Wanstead - remodelling
West Herts - remodelling


The Hadley Wood course was built by Franks Harris Bros, the Colt, MacKenzie & Alison partnership's preferred contractor.


cheers Neil


Sean_A

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC 1-12
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2021, 02:33:46 AM »
Nice tour Sean. Thanks for sharing this.

Just wanted to comment on your suggestion that it was "unusual" for MacKenzie to have work "this close to London". He had more than a few London area projects over the years. Here are the ones I've been able to find:

Hadley Wood - 27 holes new course
Tooting Bec - substantial remodelling
Northwick Park - remodelling
Chertsey - remodelling
Dulwich & Sydenham Hill - remodelling and drainage
London Flying Club - new 9 hole course
Stanmore - remodelling
Wanstead - remodelling
West Herts - remodelling

The Hadley Wood course was built by Franks Harris Bros, the Colt, MacKenzie & Alison partnership's preferred contractor.

cheers Neil

Neil

Thanks! I suspected Franks Harris Bros did the work because of mounding knobs around some greens.

I only knew about the Flying Club as new build work. This was the point I was trying to make. The London surrounds were definitely Colt country.

So Dr Mac altered his original design to create 27 holes? When were those holes added and who did the work? It seems a very odd thing to do. Why was the SW section of the property abandoned?

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 29, 2021, 03:22:55 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Neil_Crafter

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC 1-12
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2021, 03:08:37 AM »
Cheers Sean
Browning in his handbook for the club noted that MacKenzie designed the 18 hole course and the 9 hole course. "The nine hole course was every bit as good as the other, and it would perhaps be truer to say that Dr. Mackenzie had laid out the course in three loops of nine holes, all equally testing, but in slightly contrasted styles." He then noted that this "elegant arrangement" was lost when the club gave up 40 acres for food production during the war and that the 9 hole course almost entirely disappeared. Post war some new holes were built, not sure by who.


My understanding is that the 9 hole course was added in the early 1930s by Franks Harris. Presumably the club had MacKenzie's plans as I doubt he saw it getting built given he was full time in America then apart from some summer trips back home. The history book has a plan of the 27 hole course as it was before the war.

Sean_A

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC 1-12
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2021, 03:35:28 AM »
Cheers Sean
Browning in his handbook for the club noted that MacKenzie designed the 18 hole course and the 9 hole course. "The nine hole course was every bit as good as the other, and it would perhaps be truer to say that Dr. Mackenzie had laid out the course in three loops of nine holes, all equally testing, but in slightly contrasted styles." He then noted that this "elegant arrangement" was lost when the club gave up 40 acres for food production during the war and that the 9 hole course almost entirely disappeared. Post war some new holes were built, not sure by who.

My understanding is that the 9 hole course was added in the early 1930s by Franks Harris. Presumably the club had MacKenzie's plans as I doubt he saw it getting built given he was full time in America then apart from some summer trips back home. The history book has a plan of the 27 hole course as it was before the war.

Thanks Neil

I am assuming the 40 acres is now the practice ground where 1-3 & 9 from the added nine holes of the 27 hole layout were located. There is now housing where the 5th would have been.

I wonder if the current 3rd (using a Dr Mac green from the abandoned nine holer?) was designed to take advantage of a view over water to the house? Same for the tee on the current 10th?

HADLEY WOOD TOUR CONT

I am not sure the 13th works very well. The severely sloped green is intended to be approached on a line directly between the bunkers.  The new corridor swings the hole further right thus creating target golf between trees.  Additionally, the hole lacks charm and in need of serious tree work.  That said, the green is a wild, sloping toward the fairway affair. I can imagine there are many three putts! Preparation for winter work is ongoing.


Back to back par 5s is a somewhat unusual routing choice. Playing back up the hill towards the house three times, however, is not surprising. Dr Mac is well known for revisiting highlight features throughout the round. The 14th green is another doozy, but like the previous hole, tee to green the 14th lacks inspiration. I wonder if the green could be expanded out front to create a dramatic two tier putting surface?

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 03:58:17 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Thomas Dai

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC 1-12
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2021, 04:30:54 AM »
Nice tour. Thank you. I can see where your coming from with regard to trees and views.
The downhill par-3 7th looks a sneaky wee hole while the green site of 12th appears not dissimilar to some other MacKenzie par-3’s.
Atb

Sean_A

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC 1-12
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2021, 04:50:14 AM »
Nice tour. Thank you. I can see where your coming from with regard to trees and views.
The downhill par-3 7th looks a sneaky wee hole while the green site of 12th appears not dissimilar to some other MacKenzie par-3’s.
Atb

A couple of the best holes on the course!

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

John Mayhugh

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC 1-14
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2021, 07:50:58 AM »
I can't help but think the design needs an archie's  keen eye to enhance the green sites with more sympathetic cut lines. 
This is pretty evident from the photos. Looking forward to seeing what Clyde Johnson does there. Pictures from Alwoodley look great.

Sean_A

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC 1-14
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2021, 07:28:35 AM »
HADLEY WOOD TOUR CONT

Back down the hill for 15. The excellent green must be reachable for a decent percentage of club golfers in the summer months, but there is water either side of the fairway. A case in point about grass lines. Why doesn't the fairway go around the bunker and mounding?


One of my favourite holes, the 16th slings gracefully left.  There is dead ground shy of the green which conceals the approach.


I am unsure how the bushes in the background improve the hole, but the short 17th is a fine hole. The harsh slope to the left can just about be seen in the photo.


We land in front of the house for the third time to finish the round. Despite the parkland nature of the site, Hadley Wood is one of the better Dr Mac UK courses I have seen....the greens alone make this the case. There is a ton of room to maximize potential if the usual triple of trees, grass lines and bunkers are addressed.  Luckily, work has already begun...we shall see if the membership fully embraces improvements. The bones of 5-7, 9, 12 & 16 carry plenty of quality to engage golfers of all abilities.  Playability and aesthetic improvements will only enhance the experience.  2021

The unusual competition boards with closing doors providing extra space. 




Another interior view of the elegant house.


Ciao
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 03:59:57 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Brett Meyer

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2021, 09:47:19 AM »
Sean, I agree with you on the awkwardness of the 13th, which was the one hole that I thought was really disrupted by trees. I noticed that there was internal out-of-bounds on the right with the 16th hole, which might have made sense in a former time because the trees between the holes would have been small. But it doesn't make any sense now that the trees are mature. And even if they removed most of the trees right of the fairway, it still wouldn't make sense because a forest has grown short and right of the green that would block the path to the green. Particularly egregious was a large pin oak about 150 out on the right as the fairway turns down hill. It would be an awkward hole anyway without the trees because of the narrow plateau drive landing area and the downslope-into-a-stream lay-up zone, but the trees make it just a straight-up bad one.


But I disagree on the 14th, which I thought was excellent. Again, it's a very good driving hole with the bunker on the left at about 250 from the tips. It's really important to be up the left side here because as typical in England, it's not too long a par 5 and you can get a clear shot at the green from there. There is a bit too much clutter with trees off the tee on the right but I think that there's enough room over there if you push your drive--you'll just have to deal with the overhanging oaks, which seems a reasonable punishment for a poor drive. The lay-up also gives something to think about because of the dip in the fairway that starts about 100 yards short of the green.


Pictures of the drive:





The second from the edge of the fairway bunker. This is off a ~250 yard drive from the tips so the further you can go, the clearer the view. But it's still only about 240 in from here:





The approach from just short of the dip:





I agree that 16 and 17 are fine holes but the left side of 16 is really cluttered with junk as your picture shows. Not a problem if you play the hole correctly, but you definitely don't want to cut the left side close.


I also really liked the uphill par 4 18th but there's obviously a problem in the routing here--the 18th tee is about 40 feet from the back of the 16th green, so you could hit your tee shot on 17 then go hit a drive on 18. I was surprised to see in your photo of the original routing that this routing clunk was MacKenzie's, although maybe the two back tees weren't there then.


A view of the 18th from the neighboring 17th tee:





I can't say much about how it compares to other MacKenzie courses in the UK because I think this is the only one that I played, but I agree with your assessment of Hadley Wood, Sean. It's a very good course with a very good set of greens, definitely worth the train ride from central London. The big drawback is, of course, the trees. The only two courses that I played in England with worse tree problems than Hadley Wood were The Addington and Sunningdale-New...and it looks like a lot of the former's issues have been largely corrected by Clayton, DeVries, and Pont.


Still, I've played a lot of courses in the US with far worse tree problems than this. And another of what we might think would be the course's serious weakness--the replacement of several MacKenzie holes--really isn't that bad. I thought that the par 3s 3 and 10 were both very good and the reverse camber short par 4 4th, while awkward, demands thinking and good shot-making. The only one of these holes that's a real weakness is 13 and I suspect that it'd be far less bad with tree removal.


Jaeger Kovich

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2021, 12:32:15 PM »
GCA's own Clyde Johnson has been working his magic here lately on the bunkers. I suggest you check out the latest pics of his work on @cunningolf   https://twitter.com/CunninGolf

Sean_A

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2021, 11:33:52 AM »
Sean, I agree with you on the awkwardness of the 13th, which was the one hole that I thought was really disrupted by trees. I noticed that there was internal out-of-bounds on the right with the 16th hole, which might have made sense in a former time because the trees between the holes would have been small. But it doesn't make any sense now that the trees are mature. And even if they removed most of the trees right of the fairway, it still wouldn't make sense because a forest has grown short and right of the green that would block the path to the green. Particularly egregious was a large pin oak about 150 out on the right as the fairway turns down hill. It would be an awkward hole anyway without the trees because of the narrow plateau drive landing area and the downslope-into-a-stream lay-up zone, but the trees make it just a straight-up bad one.

But I disagree on the 14th, which I thought was excellent. Again, it's a very good driving hole with the bunker on the left at about 250 from the tips. It's really important to be up the left side here because as typical in England, it's not too long a par 5 and you can get a clear shot at the green from there. There is a bit too much clutter with trees off the tee on the right but I think that there's enough room over there if you push your drive--you'll just have to deal with the overhanging oaks, which seems a reasonable punishment for a poor drive. The lay-up also gives something to think about because of the dip in the fairway that starts about 100 yards short of the green.

Pictures of the drive:



The second from the edge of the fairway bunker. This is off a ~250 yard drive from the tips so the further you can go, the clearer the view. But it's still only about 240 in from here:



The approach from just short of the dip:



I agree that 16 and 17 are fine holes but the left side of 16 is really cluttered with junk as your picture shows. Not a problem if you play the hole correctly, but you definitely don't want to cut the left side close.

I also really liked the uphill par 4 18th but there's obviously a problem in the routing here--the 18th tee is about 40 feet from the back of the 16th green, so you could hit your tee shot on 17 then go hit a drive on 18. I was surprised to see in your photo of the original routing that this routing clunk was MacKenzie's, although maybe the two back tees weren't there then.

A view of the 18th from the neighboring 17th tee:



I can't say much about how it compares to other MacKenzie courses in the UK because I think this is the only one that I played, but I agree with your assessment of Hadley Wood, Sean. It's a very good course with a very good set of greens, definitely worth the train ride from central London. The big drawback is, of course, the trees. The only two courses that I played in England with worse tree problems than Hadley Wood were The Addington and Sunningdale-New...and it looks like a lot of the former's issues have been largely corrected by Clayton, DeVries, and Pont.

Still, I've played a lot of courses in the US with far worse tree problems than this. And another of what we might think would be the course's serious weakness--the replacement of several MacKenzie holes--really isn't that bad. I thought that the par 3s 3 and 10 were both very good and the reverse camber short par 4 4th, while awkward, demands thinking and good shot-making. The only one of these holes that's a real weakness is 13 and I suspect that it'd be far less bad with tree removal.

Brett

I am surprised you find interest in 14 & 18.  They are okay, but even the green for 18 is one of the duller on the course. It feels like I played this hole earlier. 14 has a nice green, even if it feels abruptly cut-off in front.

I too am somewhat surprised by the general clunkiness of the original Dr Mac design to fit in the 27 holes.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Brett Meyer

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2021, 07:15:35 PM »
Brett

I am surprised you find interest in 14 & 18.  They are okay, but even the green for 18 is one of the duller on the course. It feels like I played this hole earlier. 14 has a nice green, even if it feels abruptly cut-off in front.

I too am somewhat surprised by the general clunkiness of the original Dr Mac design to fit in the 27 holes.

Ciao


I wouldn't fight too hard for the 18th, which I thought was good but not much more. But I think that there's quite a bit of substance to the 14th that you're not appreciating. It's a very good driving hole. Like several holes at Hadley Wood, the fairway bunkering is minimal, but in just the right place. It's a sub 500 yard par 5 so definitely reachable for good players, but you must either skirt or carry the bunker. If you're even in the right half of the fairway, the oaks will require some pretty heavy shaping to get near the green.

It's also an interesting second shot for those who can't reach the green. You have a dip that starts ~100 yards short of the green and if you go down into it, you won't be able to see the surface of the green. This is a problem because the green is not very wide, but quite deep and depth is the most difficult thing to judge on such a shot. So you need to be careful with where you lay up. Also, the green angles from front-left to back-right, so it's important that you hedge left. It'd be great to clear the dip and be on the left side...but there's a bunker there. I also remembered liking the green, although I can't remember anything about the contours.

That all adds up to a very good hole to me, one of the 3 or 4 best on the course. It'd be better with some tree clearing on the right, especially off the tee. Not sure that the forest on the right on the approach to the green should be cut back though because this forces those who avoid the bunker off the tee to either have to lay up, shape, or hit their 2nd low.

Sean_A

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2021, 08:31:25 PM »
I think my favourite holes are 5, 7, 9, 12 and 16.  Not being a natural fan of three shotters the 14th doesn't really feature for me. As a matter of fact, I am fairly cool on all three holes playing to the house.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Brett Meyer

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Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2021, 08:39:25 AM »
I think my favourite holes are 5, 7, 9, 12 and 16.  Not being a natural fan of three shotters the 14th doesn't really feature for me. As a matter of fact, I am fairly cool on all three holes playing to the house.

Ciao


I liked 5 but my issue was that the fairway bunkers, while well-placed, cut off too much of the fairway, meaning that you have to carry them or lay up. Some tree removal on the left might make skirting them on the left more sensible. This plus the elevated, well-bunkered green made it feel like a US Open hole to me. Good, but not great.

7 is probably the best hole on the course. It's one of the best greens in southeast England and just very unusual for a short par 3.

I like 9 and 16 but again, I'd say that they're just good holes. They call for similar plays--a drive to the high, right side of the fairway for the best angle into the green--but I wouldn't say in either case that the angle is that important. I agree with you on 12, which is an excellent driving hole and has a great green.

I'd probably pick 7, 12, and 14 as the three best holes. I tend to like three shotters because there's more scope for strategy in them; the more times you have might to hit a ball, the more decisions you have to make, and the more you have to think about that last decision--how you want to approach the green. 14 is great because if you want to approach the green on your second, you have to take on the bunker with your drive and it's perfectly placed for this. If you think that you'll be approaching on your third, you have assess the trade-off of a shorter shot from the valley and a longer one from short of it. The shape of the green plays an important role here, as I discussed before.

So I like par 5s in principle because they have more decision nodes which creates more opportunity for strategy. And I think that 14 compares favorably with the better par 5s that I've played...most of the rest of which aren't in southeast England!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hertfordshire High: Dr Mac's HADLEY WOOD GC
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2021, 09:17:51 AM »
If the standard is great, I can't say any of the holes reach those heights. 7 probably comes the closest.

We shall see if some holes can be substantially improved with the bunker work which I believe has started.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing