A question about elevation at ANGC

[Steve Salmen]

I've read that from the 10th tee to the 11th green is roughly 175 ft downhill. My question is are the ponds on 15 and 16 the same ground level as Rae's Creek? If so, it's a hike back up, even if if 18 green is well below the 10th tee.


Thanks for satisfying my curiosity.

[Tom_Doak]

No, the ponds at 15 and 16 are well upstream.  16 drains to the creek on 13 and then back down the hole to Rae's Creek on 12 . . . I noticed when I was there last year that the stream that had originally crossed 6 and 16 has been put in a culvert.  I assume the pond on 15 was originally another fork of the same stream.  But I would guess that both ponds are 15 feet higher than 13 green, and 30 feet higher than Rae's Creek in front of #12.


P.S.  The Augusta National topo map is missing from my secret collection.  I wonder if someone has stolen it and is working on a replica somewhere?

[Kalen Braley]

Those are some pretty good guesses...

According to Google Earth:

Back tee on 10 -  313 feet
11 Green -  162 Feet
Net difference - 151 feet

Raes Creek in front of 12 - 155 feet
Raes Creek in front of 13 - 175 feet
Pond on 16 - Anywhere from 190-200 feet (Google was having a tough time on the measurement for whatever reason)

[Tom Allen]

I had found and was getting ready to post the same Google Earth data that Kalen did. 

[Steve Salmen]

Thanks for all for your help.  I walked the course the Monday practice round of 2015.  I was aware of  the elevation changes on 10 and 11, but it really is dramatic to see it in person.  This weekend I got to thinking about elevation while looking at the pond on 16, incorrectly thinking it was the same level as Raes Creek.  I could not believe that 17 and 18 were close to as severe as 10 and 11. I also think the 17th tee is higher than the 16th green, but I do recall that the 18th green is well below the 10th tee.  Thanks again.


PS, I've never worked google earth but will give it a try.

[Kalen Braley]

Its about 10 feet up from 16 green to 17 tee, and then another 25-30 feet up to 17 green.

But most of the elevation gain is walking up 18, 60 feet or so.

P.S.  Here is the link.  But caution in advance, this site can be very addictive  : https://earth.google.com/web/

[Matthew Sander]

It struck me how artificial and forced the pond on 16 looked this year with no grandstands/patrons along the left side. Aside from that, the patron-free visuals this year were strikingly pleasant...in my opinion.

[Matt_Cohn]

What is the elevation difference between 15 pond and 16 pond? Or are they at the same level?

[Kalen Braley]

What is the elevation difference between 15 pond and 16 pond? Or are they at the same level?

Its a bit glitchy on 16 pond, but 15 looks to be a few feet higher.

P.S. Before today I had thought 16 pond was the low part of the property and the water from 11 and 12 drained via 13 to 16 pond before either leaving the property or being used for irrigation.

[Mark Smolens]

It struck me how artificial and forced the pond on 16 looked this year with no grandstands/patrons along the left side. Aside from that, the patron-free visuals this year were strikingly pleasant...in my opinion.

i saw a camera shot from behind the 6th green back toward the tee, and there was a guy walking below the tee as players were getting ready to hit. I was thinking how rude the guy was. . . until they then moved to a shot from behind the tee -- and the walker was of course nowhere in sight (I had forgotten how people can sit below the tee box, and hear rifled iron shots flying over their heads to the sixth green). It's remarkable how different the course looks when you eliminate the trappings of a spectator/patron filled entity.

[Kalen Braley]

Keeping up with the theme:

Its a good 40 feet down to that lowest point from the tee box at 6.  #8 also plays 60 feet uphill similar to 18.

[Tom_Doak]

What is the elevation difference between 15 pond and 16 pond? Or are they at the same level?

Its a bit glitchy on 16 pond, but 15 looks to be a few feet higher.

Yes, I think the pond on 15 is a bit higher.  It's only a five foot bank from the front of the green down to the water; behind the green it is a much longer gradual fallaway toward #16.


One of the reasons I know Augusta so well is from doing an interview with Tom Weiskopf about it years ago.  He mentioned that the targets on the greens were tiny, and that back then, players didn't do well in accounting for the elevation changes on their approach shots:  he said a lot of guys missed in the water on the approach to 13 because they were trying to land the ball two or three paces onto the green, and they'd forget to compensate that the shot was significantly uphill.  The rangefinders with elevation data now have made this much easier for them.

[Rob Marshall]

Its about 10 feet up from 16 green to 17 tee, and then another 25-30 feet up to 17 green.

But most of the elevation gain is walking up 18, 60 feet or so.

P.S.  Here is the link.  But caution in advance, this site can be very addictive  : https://earth.google.com/web/

I’m now hooked. Kalen can you get elevation above sea level? I don’t see that on the app.

[Tom_Doak]

I’m now hooked. Kalen can you get elevation above sea level? I don’t see that on the app.

I'm pretty sure those were the elevations above sea level he quoted in his first post.  Augusta is only 300 feet above sea level.

[Rob Marshall]

I’m now hooked. Kalen can you get elevation above sea level? I don’t see that on the app.

I'm pretty sure those were the elevations above sea level he quoted in his first post.  Augusta is only 300 feet above sea level.

Thanks for the reply Tom. I’m just trying to learn the app. I was looking at my home course trying to figure the elevation change on a few holes.

[Kalen Braley]

I’m now hooked. Kalen can you get elevation above sea level? I don’t see that on the app.

I'm pretty sure those were the elevations above sea level he quoted in his first post.  Augusta is only 300 feet above sea level.

Thanks for the reply Tom. I’m just trying to learn the app. I was looking at my home course trying to figure the elevation change on a few holes.

Correct Rob,


It has a measurement for both "camera height" and for elevation above sea level.  There is also a measurement tool you can enable to measure yardages. 

[Tom Allen]

Also, quick question for anyone else viewing it on Google Earth currently.  Was the pond in front of 15 drained when this overhead was taken?  That is what I assume, because it is a light brown, and not the color of the other water features.

[Kalen Braley]

Also, quick question for anyone else viewing it on Google Earth currently.  Was the pond in front of 15 drained when this overhead was taken?  That is what I assume, because it is a light brown, and not the color of the other water features.

I'm guessing it was shortly after a heavy rain and a bit muddy, because the creek on 12 and 13 are brown too. 

Sometimes the folks at Google change the color of water too, for whatver reason...

P.S.  The other thing they do is edit out all the cars on the streets and highways.  If you zoom around they're always empty, although sometimes you can see a few at intersections.

[Michael Wolf]

Interestingly,


The Masters is the only event each year where the yardage books provided to the caddies do not contain the elevations. So you'll often see caddies walking the course without players on Sunday and Monday recording the elevations with altimeters in their pockets. It can take 6-8 hours.


I had a player qualify in 2016 and his caddie recorded the slope on 10 at around 8% and the 8th at 10%, with sections of it running 12-14%. The No Laying Up website printed a caddies yardage book complete with the elevations if anyone is interested in a hole by hole detail. Lots of sundresses with muddy backsides on slippery mornings!


Re the water flows - the pond in front of 15 was originally a horseshoe shaped creek about 10 yards in front of the green.


Michael

[Tom_Doak]

Also, quick question for anyone else viewing it on Google Earth currently.  Was the pond in front of 15 drained when this overhead was taken?  That is what I assume, because it is a light brown, and not the color of the other water features.

The ponds would be light brown most of the time, were it not for blue dye.  The banks of the creeks are clay and are constantly eroding.  I have a picture from Masters Wednesday in 1983, with half of the pond on 11 blue, and the other half brown.

[Tommy Williamsen]

P.S.  Here is the link.  But caution in advance, this site can be very addictive  : https://earth.google.com/web/

Wish you never would have shown me this.

[Tom Bacsanyi]

Also, quick question for anyone else viewing it on Google Earth currently.  Was the pond in front of 15 drained when this overhead was taken?  That is what I assume, because it is a light brown, and not the color of the other water features.

The ponds would be light brown most of the time, were it not for blue dye.  The banks of the creeks are clay and are constantly eroding.  I have a picture from Masters Wednesday in 1983, with half of the pond on 11 blue, and the other half brown.

The ponds are actually dyed black. No one was ever able to find a blue dye that didn't look ridiculous, so now black is the play.

[Jeff Schley]

I’m now hooked. Kalen can you get elevation above sea level? I don’t see that on the app.

I'm pretty sure those were the elevations above sea level he quoted in his first post.  Augusta is only 300 feet above sea level.

Or we can make ANGC the new benchmark and sea level is 300 feet below Augusta National.
Also the prime meridian should be moved to the 12th green Sunday hole location.

[Rob Marshall]

I’m now hooked. Kalen can you get elevation above sea level? I don’t see that on the app.

I'm pretty sure those were the elevations above sea level he quoted in his first post.  Augusta is only 300 feet above sea level.

Or we can make ANGC the new benchmark and sea level is 300 feet below Augusta National.
Also the prime meridian should be moved to the 12th green Sunday hole location.

I could have sworn when I played the 7th at pebble it was downhill. I’m getting it’s 6’ uphill on google earth. I need to find a 12 year old to show me how to use this......

[Kalen Braley]

I’m now hooked. Kalen can you get elevation above sea level? I don’t see that on the app.

I'm pretty sure those were the elevations above sea level he quoted in his first post.  Augusta is only 300 feet above sea level.

Or we can make ANGC the new benchmark and sea level is 300 feet below Augusta National.
Also the prime meridian should be moved to the 12th green Sunday hole location.

I could have sworn when I played the 7th at pebble it was downhill. I’m getting it’s 6’ uphill on google earth. I need to find a 12 year old to show me how to use this......

Sometimes it helps to zoom in as far as you can,  I just checked and it looks right.

57 feet on the back tee, 28 feet at the green.

P.S.  Tommy W, glad I could help and you're welcome!