[PCCraig]

Anyone know when the 2020/2021 list is scheduled to be released?

[Adam G]

On one of the golf.com podcasts released September 1, Ran said "60 days." So I am guessing close to the beginning of next month.

[Tom_Doak]

Any day now, I think, since it's been final for more than a month.

[Jeff Schley]

Don't see it on GM website but saw a copy of the list. As with the world list contains some of the big risers and some surprises.
Big risers

• 23 Somerset Hills up 15 spots
• 36 Sleepy Hollow up 60 spots!!!!!
• 43 Myopia Hunt up 20 spots
• 63 The Creek up 28 spots
• 65 Moraine up 24 spots
• 70 Gozzer Ranch up 25 spots

Surprises

• Ohoopee debuting at 32!  Haven't been but pretty high debut for sure.
• Valley Club at Montecito dropping 7 spots to 55??
• Sand Valley dropping 39 spots to 91. People change their minds or what?
• Love Lawsonia Links debuts at 87
• Bel Air moves up to 68 which is 12 spots. Finally getting enough ratings to move post reno.
• Calusa Pines drops to 98, I think this course is underrated big time per these rankings, same for Plainfield at 57
• Both Streamsongs drop 30 plus spots.
• Omissions: Olympia Fields, Beverly in future years, Dismal River (red), Austin GC (all my opinion obviously)

Quite a few new additions which signifies the shift in the panel makeup.

[Daryl David]

Don't see it on GM website but saw a copy of the list. As with the world list contains some of the big risers and some surprises.
Big risers

• 23 Somerset Hills up 15 spots
• 36 Sleepy Hollow up 60 spots!!!!!
• 43 Myopia Hunt up 20 spots
• 63 The Creek up 28 spots
• 65 Moraine up 24 spots
• 70 Gozzer Ranch up 25 spots

Surprises

• Ohoopee debuting at 32!  Haven't been but pretty high debut for sure.
• Valley Club at Montecito dropping 7 spots to 55? ?
• Sand Valley dropping 39 spots to 91. People change their minds or what?
• Love Lawsonia Links debuts at 87
• Bel Air moves up to 68 which is 12 spots. Finally getting enough ratings to move post reno.
• Calusa Pines drops to 98, I think this course is underrated big time per these rankings, same for Plainfield at 57
• Both Streamsongs drop 30 plus spots.
• Omissions: Olympia Fields, Beverly in future years, Dismal River (red), Austin GC (all my opinion obviously)

Quite a few new additions which signifies the shift in the panel makeup.

Some huge movements. Will be interesting to compare to the GolfWeek list. I suspect they are moving closer to alignment.

[Tim Martin]

Sleepy Hollow makes a huge move and well deserved. Does it slip in ahead of Winged Foot East on the new list?

[Mark_Fine]

No Olympia Fields    I will say though that the list is starting to look more like my own Top 100 “favorites” list but what is it that GM is striving to identify?

[Tom_Doak]

I'm thinking back to the first time I visited Somerset Hills, in 1980.  If you'd told me it would one day be ranked 23rd in America I'd have laughed.


To be clear:  I love the course, but these lists are starting to get silly.

[Andrew Harvie]

I don't have the magazine but I managed to get most of the list jotted down from screenshots. Not sure on 94, 99 and a bit shaky if 100 is Cherry Hills or not... screenshot got blurry


1. Pine Valley
2. Cypress Point
3. Shinnecock Hills
4. National Golf Links
5. Oakmont
6. Augusta National
7. Sand Hills
8. Merion
9. Fishers Island
10. Pebble
11. No. 2
12. LACC
13. Friar’s Head
14. Chicago
15. Winged Foot (West)
16. Crystal Downs
17. Riv
18. Prairie Dunes
19. Pacific Dunes
20. Seminole
21. SFGC
22. Brookline
23. Somerset
24. Shoreacres
25. Garden City
26. Camargo
27. Cal Club
28. Southern Hills
29. Maidstone
30. Bethpage
31. Ocean Course
32. Ohoopee
33. Inverness
34. Ballyneal
35. Oakland Hills
36. Sleepy Hollow
37. Peachtree
38. Bandon Trails
39. Quaker
40. Oak Hill (East)
41. Old Town
42. The Golf Club
43. Myopia
44. Bandon
45. Sawgrass
46. Winged Foot (East)
47. Yeamans Hall
48. Cattle Company
49. Whistling Straits
50. Wade Hampton
51. Muirfield Village
52. Old Sandwich
53. Eastward Ho!
54. Olympic Club
55. Valley Club
56. Piping Rock
57. Plainfield
58. Kittansett
59. Pasatiempo
60. Pikewood
61. Gamble Sands
62. The Creek
63. Honours
64. Essex County
65. Moraine
66. Old Mac
67. Monterey Peninsula (Shore)
68. Bel-Air
69. Baltusrol (Lower)
70. Gozzer
71. Milwaukee
72. Congaree
73. Harbour Town
74. Ridgewood
75. Five Farms
76. White Bear
77. Streamsong Red
78. Saint Louis
79. Kingsley Club
80. Sheep Ranch
81. Shadow Creek
82. Prairie Club (Dunes)
83. Hollywood
84. Newport
85. Monterey Peninsula (Dunes)
86. Glen Falls
87. Lawsonia
88. Wolf Point Ranch
89. Aronimink
90. Mountain Ridge
91. Sand Valley
92. No. 4
93. Palmetto
94. ?
95. Streamsong Blue
96. Mammoth Dunes
97. Sebonack
98. Calusa Pines
99. ?
100. Cherry Hills (I think)

[John Kirk]

Bandon Dunes has five courses in the top 100 in the country.

Regarding Sleepy Hollow, I've only played SH and WF-E once each, but I think it's fair to say I liked Sleepy Hollow better.  The course takes you on a very interesting journey around its property.  Maybe WF-E has better "shot values" but I didn't see it in one round of play.

Cal Club now at #27.  I thought it was a bit too highly ranked when it was forty-something the last time.  Maybe my personal bias, but the Cattle Company is way more beautiful and dramatic, and fun to be on and play.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Boston GC always seems to miss out. I haven’t seen enough on this list to know better but it still surprises me.


Is it just one of those clubs that flys below the radar? I’d be surprised if the golf course isn’t better than 20 or 30 on here.

[Tim Gallant]

I'm thinking back to the first time I visited Somerset Hills, in 1980.  If you'd told me it would one day be ranked 23rd in America I'd have laughed.


To be clear:  I love the course, but these lists are starting to get silly.

Tom,


Why silly? In 1991 Baltusrol Lower was ranked 15 while NGLA was ranked 26 on the same list. Surely lists are nothing more than a reflection of tastes of the moment? Not sure any list from the major publications are inherently any more or less silly than another, unless there are other motives for constructing the lists.

[Michael Pelliccione]

I'm thinking back to the first time I visited Somerset Hills, in 1980.  If you'd told me it would one day be ranked 23rd in America I'd have laughed.


To be clear:  I love the course, but these lists are starting to get silly.

Tom, why do you think SHCC isn't worthy of its spot?  1980 isn't 2020.  Find me another course that should replace it...   I think you may be the first person to every tell me that SHCC isn't deserving of top 25 consideration.

[Steve Lapper]

I'm thinking back to the first time I visited Somerset Hills, in 1980.  If you'd told me it would one day be ranked 23rd in America I'd have laughed.


To be clear:  I love the course, but these lists are starting to get silly.

Tom,


  Please do tell us what is silly about this particular list! Give us details. Inquiring minds want to know.


  Is it that quite a few great golden age designs have been wonderfully restored (many by you and your talented associates) and received elevated recognition, thus eclipsing yours or other's original modern designs?


  What you once described as "Shabby Chic" is finally near perfectly presented and meticulously maintained and it's a shock to you to have received a higher level of recognition??


   All lists are subjective and flawed, and this one is no exception, but maybe...just maybe, the current composition of panelists believed it was the architectural gem you yourself have described it as.


   Don't you keep "Top Ten" and "Best Holes" lists on your own web site? Would a client who doesn't have a course or a hole listed think these are silly lists?  Who knows, but singling out a single course that is universally recognized as a brilliant and daring golden age design seems sillier to me (and apparently a few others here as well).

[Tim Martin]

Bandon Dunes has five courses in the top 100 in the country.

Regarding Sleepy Hollow, I've only played SH and WF-E once each, but I think it's fair to say I liked Sleepy Hollow better.  The course takes you on a very interesting journey around its property.  Maybe WF-E has better "shot values" but I didn't see it in one round of play.

Cal Club now at #27.  I thought it was a bit too highly ranked when it was forty-something the last time.  Maybe my personal bias, but the Cattle Company is way more beautiful and dramatic, and fun to be on and play.

If I only had one play in Westchester County it would be Sleepy Hollow.

[William_G]

Bandon Dunes has five courses in the top 100 in the country.

Regarding Sleepy Hollow, I've only played SH and WF-E once each, but I think it's fair to say I liked Sleepy Hollow better.  The course takes you on a very interesting journey around its property.  Maybe WF-E has better "shot values" but I didn't see it in one round of play.

If I only had one play in Westchester County it would be Sleepy Hollow.

No Yale love on this list?
Yale>>>>SH

[Eric LeFante]

1. Pine Valley
2. Cypress Point
3. Shinnecock Hills
4. National Golf Links
5. Oakmont
6. Augusta National
7. Sand Hills
8. Merion
9. Fishers Island
10. Pebble
11. No. 2
12. LACC
13. Friar’s Head
14. Chicago
15. Winged Foot (West)
16. Crystal Downs
17. Riv
18. Prairie Dunes
19. Pacific Dunes
20. Seminole
21. SFGC
22. Brookline
23. Somerset
24. Shoreacres
25. Garden City
26. Camargo
27. Cal Club
28. Southern Hills
29. Maidstone
30. Bethpage
31. Ocean Course
32. Ohoopee
33. Inverness
34. Ballyneal
35. Oakland Hills
36. Sleepy Hollow
37. Peachtree
38. Bandon Trails
39. Quaker
40. Oak Hill (East)
41. Old Town
42. The Golf Club
43. Myopia
44. Bandon
45. Sawgrass
46. Winged Foot (East)
47. Yeamans Hall
48. Cattle Company
49. Whistling Straits
50. Wade Hampton
51. Muirfield Village
52. Old Sandwich
53. Eastward Ho!
54. Olympic Club
55. Valley Club
56. Piping Rock
57. Plainfield
58. Kittansett
59. Pasatiempo
60. Pikewood
61. Gamble Sands
62. The Creek
63. Honours
64. Essex County
65. Moraine
66. Old Mac
67. Monterey Peninsula (Shore)
68. Bel-Air
69. Baltusrol (Lower)
70. Gozzer
71. Milwaukee
72. Congaree
73. Harbour Town
74. Ridgewood
75. Five Farms
76. White Bear
77. Streamsong Red
78. Saint Louis
79. Kingsley Club
80. Sheep Ranch
81. Shadow Creek
82. Prairie Club (Dunes)
83. Hollywood
84. Newport
85. Monterey Peninsula (Dunes)
86. Glen Falls
87. Lawsonia
88. Wolf Point Ranch
89. Aronimink
90. Mountain Ridge
91. Sand Valley
92. No. 4
93. Palmetto
94. Nanea
95. Streamsong Blue
96. Mammoth Dunes
97. Sebonack
98. Calusa Pines
99. Baltusrol Upper
100. Cherry Hills

I added 94 and 99 to the above list.

[Tim Martin]

Bandon Dunes has five courses in the top 100 in the country.

Regarding Sleepy Hollow, I've only played SH and WF-E once each, but I think it's fair to say I liked Sleepy Hollow better.  The course takes you on a very interesting journey around its property.  Maybe WF-E has better "shot values" but I didn't see it in one round of play.

If I only had one play in Westchester County it would be Sleepy Hollow.

No Yale love on this list?
Yale>>>>SH

 

[JC Jones]

I'm thinking back to the first time I visited Somerset Hills, in 1980.  If you'd told me it would one day be ranked 23rd in America I'd have laughed.


To be clear:  I love the course, but these lists are starting to get silly.

Interesting that 2 new members to the panel and one longtime member who is a NJ person would take issue with your comment as if you arent permitted to have your own subjective opinion on the course, its ranking, and the list, generally.


I think there are some silly things about this list. 


Almost 50% of the courses would be considered to be in the Northeast and only 18 courses are public.

[Jimmy Muratt]

No Yale love on this list?
Yale>>>>SH

Perhaps the university should realize what an architectural gem they have and actually take some of their $30 billion endowment to take care of the course.  Having just reopened from nearly a year being closed doesn't leave it in the best spot to make a case to be in the top 100.   Go play Yale in it's current state and play Sleepy Hollow and let's then see if you feel the same.

[Tim Gallant]

I'm thinking back to the first time I visited Somerset Hills, in 1980.  If you'd told me it would one day be ranked 23rd in America I'd have laughed.


To be clear:  I love the course, but these lists are starting to get silly.

Interesting that 2 new members to the panel and one longtime member who is a NJ person would take issue with your comment as if you arent permitted to have your own subjective opinion on the course, its ranking, and the list, generally.


I think there are some silly things about this list. 


Almost 50% of the courses would be considered to be in the Northeast and only 18 courses are public.

JC,


No issue with his comments on the ranking - more on the ‘starting’ to get silly as if this list is inherently more or less silly than any other. Curious if he thinks the lists are getting more silly - why. That’s all. I’m all for differing opinions.

[Tim Martin]

No Yale love on this list?
Yale>>>>SH

Perhaps the university should realize what an architectural gem they have and actually take some of their $30 billion endowment to take care of the course.  Having just reopened from nearly a year being closed doesn't leave it in the best spot to make a case to be in the top 100.   Go play Yale in it's current state and play Sleepy Hollow and let's then see if you feel the same.

The course was in the best shape in years prior to the pandemic. The “bones” of Yale are the equal or better of Sleepy Hollow.

[Cal Seifert]

Didn't the same magazine recently rank Yale as top 100 in the world?

[Jimmy Muratt]

The course was in the best shape in years prior to the pandemic. The “bones” of Yale are the equal or better of Sleepy Hollow.

Rankings aren't created based on "bones" or potential.  That would make for an interesting list, however.   Courses like Sleepy Hollow and Old Town always had great potential but weren't ranked in the top 50 until they were meticulously restored to highlight their original architecture.

[Tim Martin]

The course was in the best shape in years prior to the pandemic. The “bones” of Yale are the equal or better of Sleepy Hollow.

Rankings aren't created based on "bones" or potential.  That would make for an interesting list, however.   Courses like Sleepy Hollow and Old Town always had great potential but weren't ranked in the top 50 until they were meticulously restored to highlight their original architecture.

When is the last time you played?

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