[Niall C]

I've never played a CBM Biarritz hole or any kind of variation thereof so while I think I've got an idea of what they're about I'm not absolutely sure. So if you were describing a Biarritz to someone who hasn't seen one before, how would you describe it ? Serious question, no smart arse one word answers allowed. I'm looking for what you think the essentials are such as the hole length, shape and contouring of fairway, same for the green, into the prevailing wind or not etc. that kind of thing.

Any takers ?

Niall

[Ivan Morris]

I have no idea! But, I can tell you this there are some fabulous golf holes and golf courses in the Biarritz area of La Belle France. Biarritz golf spawned the legendary Jean Geriailde, and Catherine Lacoste, the 1970 US Women’s Open Champion, who still runs the exciting and testing, Chantaco Golf Club at nearby St. Jean de Luz. Jean Van de Velde learned to play his golf at Hossoger, a wonderful old-fashioned parkland course, also nearby. Biarritz native, Arnaud Massey became the only Frenchman to win The Open Championship at Hoylake in 1907. Golf de Biarritz-le-Phare is located on Avenue Edith Cavell in the heart of Biarritz in a prestigious neighbourhood featuring plush homes and splendid views of the ocean. The course was built on high ground in 1888 by architects Tom and Willie Dunn and renovated in 1920 by Harry S. Colt, and you can look out over red roofed houses at the azure Atlantic far below. A modest 6000 yards with par of 69, the Le Phare course is superbly manicured and is no pushover. Claude Rosseau, who is Director-General of Golf in the city, oversees one of ‘the best training and practice areas in the world’ located at the 9-holes Ilbiarritz Golf Course only a stone’s throw from the heart of the city. Designed by Pierre Thevenin and opened in 1988, this municipally-owned facility is used by top professionals from all over Europe. In the hills, slightly inland are Makila and the excellent Arcangues. Moliets, designed by Robert Trent Jones, has all of his hall marks - length, wide twisting fairways, large jagged-edged bunkers, wispy rough, mature trees set well-back from the fairways and water but also there is the added, surprise on the back nine of four dramatic seaside holes when you suddenly burst out of the forest. Seignosse is a testing, tree-lined, sand-based, hilly golf course that is regularly rated amongst the top three (out of 700+) in France.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Testing your long game on a one shot hole. Originally, a low shot (with something like a cleek) was the 'ideal', one that landed on the front segment, disappeared into the swale, and emerged on the back segment.

At Fishers and Yale it can be 190 yds. to the center of the first segment and 230 yds. to the center of the rear segment.

Quite demanding for the 'best' players of the teens and twenties. Still a demanding shot for the vast majority of players in the modern era.

[Bill Brightly]

Jim's description is very good. The only thing I would add is that the approach is normally guarded by sand bunkers on both sides, as is the green, so that you may have 50-70 yards of bunkers on either side. The result is a most unusual looking hole that demands a straight shot. (Some also have a "topshot" front bunker.)

[Nigel Islam]

The central swale is huge,like about 5 feet and the green is usually 40-45 yards long to add to the above comments. The concept came from Biarritz but I'm not totally sure the green there really looked like CBMs hole.

[ChipOat]

To answer your question, "what are they all about?", Jim Kennedy started that ball with his description of a "low running cleek shot".

Basically, when CBM and/or Seth Rayner built them in the hickory shaft, pre-watering system, small ball late 'teens and early '20's, they were all about the ground game (Yale being an exception given the carry with Fishers Island and The Creek, as well).  That's a lot of exceptions, actually.  Regardless, with most of them back then (e.g. Piping Rock and The Links), 30-50 yards of roll was how one successfully played a Biarritz.

Now, with watered fairways, even with Tom Paul's "fast and firm" maintenance meld + the 1.68" ball, they are much more about the aerial game.

[Tim Liddy]

With the hole location in the rear of the green, imagine the joy of hitting the front of the green, watching the ball disappear as it travels through the swale, then reappearing at the back of the green next to the pin. It is also essentially 3 greens within a green.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tim,

I agree, I think watching your ball traverse the putting surface is exhilarating and fraught with an element of fear.

Mountain Lake's Biarritz has that effect.

Not so much Yale, where you can see everything.

One of the strengths of the Biarritz hole is the difficulty in recovery, based upon hole location.
Especially an elevated Biarritz putting surface.

[Alex Lagowitz]

Elements of a Biarritz
- par 3 hole that was intended to have the pin ONLY on the back of the green
- average length of this hole was 220-240 yards and was usually designed with one small tee box for all sets of tees
- very geometric design, with a long, rectangular green and two rectangular strip bunkers that each run parallel to the holes on the side of the green
- either a very long hole with three levels:
              - the front tier and the back tier are generally at the same level
              - the middle level is very low, often 3 to 5 ft deep and 5 to 10 feet wide.  This is described as the swale.
              - the front and middle (swale) can be part of the green, but often are maintained as fairway.  (There is much debate about this)
- as mentioned by others, the desired shot is a straight and low ball that lands on the front, disappears in the swale, and reappears on the back by the flag
- occasionally, the front of the green featured "deflection mounds" to steer balls away from the green, and the back tier also can have a small horseshoe feature
- when played in correct conditions, it should be near impossible to land the ball on the back of the green and hold it- the ball should be played with a running shot
- to simulate the original hole at biarritz gc in france, M/R/B often placed a top-shot bunker to represent the original carry of the bay of biscay.  The Yale version is the best homage to the original, featuring a full green and a carry over water.

[cary lichtenstein]

my one word answer: Yale

Great, wonderful, marvelous, exciting, challenging, thrilling hole

[Jeff Fortson]

Curious to hear people's take on the 11th at The Creek Club on Long Island.  Where does that rank in the pantheon of the Biarritz?  It's one of three I have played from MacDonald/Raynor designs and my favorite so far.  (I have not played Yale)


Jeff

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff,

While I really love the 11th at the Creek, it's Biarritz Lite.

The swale is minimal at best, nowhere near the 9th at it's sister club, Piping Rock.

The island nature of the green, coupled with the winds directly off Long Island Sound and the ability to vary the hole from a short hole to a monstrously long hole, make it one of my favorites.

Interestingly, one would have thought, given the location, that the green would have been elevated more, allowing for a deeper swale.

[Bill Brightly]

One of the strengths of a good Biarritz is the sense of uneasiness felt by the golfer on the tee. I call it "squeeze your cheeks and hit is straight."
So while the swale at The Creek is modest, the tee shot is VERY demanding:

From the tee


From the back of the green


A look back at the green

[Jud_T]

I agree with Pat that recovery play on an elevated Biarritz can be extremely demanding.  Adds a serious pucker factor to missing the green.  Also don't discount the sheer joy of draining a long bomb from the swale or through it..

[Jeff Fortson]

Jeff,

While I really love the 11th at the Creek, it's Biarritz Lite.

The swale is minimal at best, nowhere near the 9th at it's sister club, Piping Rock.

The island nature of the green, coupled with the winds directly off Long Island Sound and the ability to vary the hole from a short hole to a monstrously long hole, make it one of my favorites.

Interestingly, one would have thought, given the location, that the green would have been elevated more, allowing for a deeper swale.

I agree Pat on it being Biarritz "lite" in regards to the swale.  But, what about the fact that it is basically an island green and replacing the side bunkers with water!  While I generally cringe at the overuse of water hazards, it feels right at The Creek due to the property it is on.  Plus, that makes it unique compared to any other Biarritz.  Couple that with the green slightly angled from the tee and you get a variation on the template.  That's what I loved about it.  I would agree that #9 at Piping Rock is a much better "replica" of a Biarritz, but I like the variations of The Creek enough to put it ahead in my mind.   

But, then again, I could have a very wrong take on this as the swale is most certainly the main feature that makes a Biarritz a Biarritz.  I don't know, I think The Creek's version is just so interesting compared to other Biarritz copies, even with the "lite" swale.


Jeff F.

[Ivan Morris]

Would the 16th green at North Berwick GC be considered 'Biarritz?' Seems to fill the description..................
 

[Niall C]

All

Many thanks for your responses, much appreciated. In particular Alex, thanks for your break down of the design elements, and also Bill for your photos of The Creek.

What prompted me to ask the question, apart from Scott's other thread on Biarritz's, was the forthcoming BUDA at Silloth. The fourth hole there comprises many of the elements listed by Alex in relation to the green complex in that the green is relatively long and narrow and has a dip in the middle. I hesitate to call it a swale because its even shallower and less pronounced than the one shown in Bill's photo however it is there and makes approach play (and indeed putting) more tricky. On either side of the green there is a steep drop off to deep grass bunkers, such that if you're standing in them you can't see the surface of the green.

Its not uncommon to end up chipping from one side of the green to the other which is why even a short iron approach is full of trepidation.

Before the club adopted MacKenzie's recommendations in the 1920's which resulted in the tee being moved a good bit further back along the dune, the hole would have been about 230 yards give or take. You can still see the old tee pad. If any of you are going to BUDA, I'd be interested to get your take.

I've thought for a while that there was a lot more use of templates in early UK design that sometimes gets acknowledged and I wonder if this is one example. BTW, Silloth also has another fine template hole and thats the par 3 ninth which is a stick on for the Postage Stamp.

Niall

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