[Sean_A]

We use the word "subtle" a lot, most especially me, however, I wonder if we all really think one man's subtlety is the same as another man's subtlety.  Below are some photos which I would like folks to decide if they are subtle or not.

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Ciao

[Tommy Williamsen]

Sean, I am not at my computer so I can't post a picture, but I can think of some holes hole that sometimes first time players don't get because of their subtlety. One  of them is the third hole at Four Streams. It is a 470 par four with two bunkers fronting the left part of the green.  They are about twenty yards short of the green.  There is a grassed valley between the bunkers and the green that will eat up a ball that doesn't fly all the way to the green but does provide an easy up and down. To the right of the bunkers is a right to left slope that allows a player, like me who can't fly it all the way, to hit a run up shot.  But it is pretty tight so the shot needs to be precise.  It is one of my favorite holes at the club. It doesn't knock your socks off like other holes but the variety of shots to green makes the hole wonderful to play.

[Kalen Braley]

Sean

3, 5, 9, 10, and 17 are jumping out at me, not so much the rest.

14 and 15 look just plain penal...don't miss left or right, straight only.

[Bill_McBride]

5 is the only one that doesn't look too subtle to me.  All the rest have that "close to the ground" look that I love on courses in the UK.

Is #14 at Alwoodley?

[Mac Plumart]

I've tried to post three times on this thread with pictures, explanations, and the whole nine yards.  But the dog-gone thing keeps locking up.  Scrub it...here are the photos and nothing else.  

14 Lane Creek


11 Cuscowilla


TOC 5


Balcomie 1 from the side


6 Maidstone


8 Rivermont


5 Rivermont

[Mark Pearce]

Mac,

That isn't the first at Balcomie, looks like the 3rd to me.  I think the third at Balcomie is an absolutely cracking hole but have to say that subtle isn't the word I'd use to describe it.

Sean,

I'm not sure that subtle architecture would be visible in a photograph?

[Mac Plumart]

Mark...my bad.  I must have bad labels on my photos.  

In one of the multiple editions of the post I tried to put up, I pointed out how 1 green sloped away from the angle of play.  I found that be a subtle defense of the hole, especially for Colin Macqueen.  

Also, Mark, in relation to your comment to Sean...that was the gist of my original 3 posts.  If you haven't played the holes, it will be hard to pick up on the subtleties of them in photos.  Which is why I previously had descriptions of the photos/holes I posted.  Aargh!!!  

EDIT...Mark, I updated that photo.  Thanks for pointing that out.

[Bill_McBride]

Mac,

That isn't the first at Balcomie, looks like the 3rd to me.  I think the third at Balcomie is an absolutely cracking hole but have to say that subtle isn't the word I'd use to describe it.

Mark, isn't that the boathouse behind the green at Crail?   I don't remember one of those at the third, but I might have already been nervous about the tee shots at 4 and 5!

[Mark Saltzman]

Sean, how are you (or anyone) defining subtle as it relates to architecture?

To me, subtle cannot be identified in a picture.  Subtle comes out on repeated plays.  Play a golf course 50 times and learn something new on the 50th time -- that's subtle architecture. 

[Bill_Yates]

Mark
I agree.

Most of the time you can't see "subtlety" from a picture, you have to walk it, feel it, experience it, and DISCOVER it.  It's, how should I say it?  IT'S SUBTLE!!!

[Mark Pearce]

Mac,

I agree, the first is a hole where you have most likely a wedge or partial wedge for a second but it's so difficult to get it close because the green does, albeit gently, run away from you.  And that, I agree, is subtle.

Bill,

Yes, that's the boathouse by the first.  Mac has changed his post to put the correct picture there.

Actually, I thinking about it, think Balcomie has a very generous share of subtlety.  1, as Mac points out, 2, a hole where a series of safe shots leads to a far tougher par than the brave options, 4 and 5 both have greens that look flat but aren't, 7 has a "flat" green that runs away, 15 has a green that runs away, despite being drivable and 17 is a tougher green than it looks

[Rich Goodale]

Mark

You and Bill are right.  Sometimes a picture is worth far, far less than 1000 words, particularly if you are trying to infer subtlety from 2D pixilated images!

[Melvyn Morrow]

If only the faithful could really see the ground they play upon

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