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Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
I am unsure why I love golf and golf courses so much, but I do.  And because of this unique love, I’ve been fascinated with the grounds of golf and trying to learn as much as I can about them despite only taking up the game in 2007.  My first eye opening experience came from playing my very first round of golf at a very nice/upscale club in Atlanta with a non-rated golf course and then a Top 100 rated golf course a few days later.  From that moment on, I have been driven to discover why certain golf courses are elite and endlessly fascinating and others are not.  I think the core of this is learning about golf course architecture.

Along these lines, I’ve tried to read everything I can on the topic.  Here is a link to the golf books I’ve read to date (note recently I have been reading books on the Romantics and their beliefs and their writings…perhaps related to how I view a golf course, but perhaps not…that is what I am trying to discover).http://www.mrpgolf.com/books.html

And I’ve set out to see firsthand to see and experience a wide variety of golf course architecture.  Here is a link to what I’ve played thus far.  http://www.mrpgolf.com/MY_RANKINGS.html

I’ve also tried to track which courses I like and why.  I’ve written two pieces on this so far.  But I have another one I will be adding focusing on thrilling golf and unique greens.

This focus on why I like golf course gets specifically to how they make me feel.  Tom Paul first suggested I track this aspect of it, and then Mike Nuzzo’s article on the types of golfers added further illumination to why certain courses made me feel certain ways. http://nuzzo.org/pdf/GAV5.pdf  I think Mike is spot on regarding this, but I’ve heard people say he is wrong and that golfers embody all three aspects.  Frankly, I agree with that…but I think Mike makes a broader point that, yes, all golfers have each of these characteristics but generally they favor one the most.  Again, I agree.  And I feel people’s failure to recognize these three types and their repercussions on golf course analysis leads to almost all the fights on GCA.com about golf courses.

My eye going forward is focusing on seeing certain golf courses in specific geographical areas.  I need to play golf on kikiyu grass.  I may not like it, but I need to experience it.  I need to play golf in the Heathlands.  I need to play golf in Australia and experience that sand.  I need to experience the epic dunes of Ireland.  I know there are a million more places I need to play, but those are at the top of my list.  

Why do I feel like I need to experience golf in these different geographical areas?  Because I know the land the course sits on affects everything about what is possible regarding golf course architecture.  I’ll never forget my first round at NGLA.  It had rained and rained and rained the night before my round and I just knew ground would be muddy and damn near unplayable.  I was so bummed.  But that was not the case.  The soil there drained that water right off and the course was damn near ideal.  That would never happen in GA with the clay based soil.  So, that illuminated my brain why people praise sandy loam so much.  Therefore, I need to experience golf in different locals to see how land, soils, climate, etc affect golf.

Furthermore, I totally understand the need to play specific golf courses over and over.  I have plans for frequent plays on Pinehurst #2, NGLA, and The Old Course.  If I can get annual plays on the first two and, maybe, semi-annual on the last…I think that would be a good thing for my education.  I wish I could do more than that, but life gets in the way of total dedication to playing golf (although I’m giving it my best shot!!! :) )

So…what am I missing?  What do I need to change?

In short, what are the best practices for learning about golf and golf course architecture?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 12:20:48 PM by Mac Plumart »
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2012, 12:49:54 PM »
Mac,

This sounds crazy and Tom Huckaby may return from the hinterland to smite me, but sometimes you don't need to play.  Sometimes it's about being on a golf course and not worrying about your own shot.  I've been chastised for saying so, but I'd much rather walk around The Old Course than play on the New.  Epic golf trips are all well and good, but I don't think just playing great courses is the end all of trying to understand golf courses.

I think you also need to see a course getting built.  That helps a lot.

Emile Bonfiglio

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2012, 12:53:22 PM »
Wow Mac, I loved that post, very inspiring indeed. For me, I took up an interest in GCA because I wanted to improve my game and I felt like I better understand the course more then just knowing the number to the flag. You covered the main points well and I think that if most could follow your path they would be satisfied with their connection to GCA.
You can follow me on twitter @luxhomemagpdx or instagram @option720

Mike Tanner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2012, 01:24:33 PM »
Mac,
I also gained some insights from Nuzzo's article. It gave me a context for looking at courses myself and interpreting the opinions of other golfers, especially the ones that I play with regularly.
Life's too short to waste on bad golf courses or bad wine.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2012, 01:31:42 PM »
When playing I continuously putt if ok with playing partners.  That gives me more time to look/walk around the green looking for old cups to ascertain pinnable areas and their potential impact on play.  I also sketch features I like, particularly internal green contours.  The next day I attempt a stick drawing of the routing to cement my memory.   I closely watch other players, particularly better players to see how they play a hole.  I play very quickly and look around a lot.  Rarely fool with a camera. 

Just a few random thoughts.

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Anthony Gray

Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2012, 01:41:57 PM »


  Travel to as many countries that you çan would be my advise.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2012, 01:53:05 PM »
One reason that I find myself happier than most critics is that I tend to learn like a dog screws.  Anyone who has played with me knows exactly what I am saying.  I honestly do not understand the need to do anything more than enjoy each individual moment the course presents.  Trying to soak in too much at once gets my mind all knotted up and if you have ever owned a dog you know that leads to nothing but trouble.  

I can't imagine a movie critic, whose responsibility it is to reveal which movies are best seen, stopping a movie midway and changing seats.  Your angle is your angle, embrace it and go with the flow.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2012, 02:04:23 PM »
Barney, we both know you're not a critic.  You're a golfer.  I'd give anything if I could trade.

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2012, 02:37:20 PM »
One reason that I find myself happier than most critics is that I tend to learn like a dog screws.  Anyone who has played with me knows exactly what I am saying.  I honestly do not understand the need to do anything more than enjoy each individual moment the course presents.  Trying to soak in too much at once gets my mind all knotted up and if you have ever owned a dog you know that leads to nothing but trouble.  

I can't imagine a movie critic, whose responsibility it is to reveal which movies are best seen, stopping a movie midway and changing seats.  Your angle is your angle, embrace it and go with the flow.

I'm closer to John K. in this respect.  Hit shot, note shot and how it reacts.  Watch other players in group and follow their shots.  Repeat.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2012, 02:51:27 PM »
Thanks for the thread Mac. I'm in bed sick today so please allow me to ramble on a bit. :)

sometimes you don't need to play.  Sometimes it's about being on a golf course and not worrying about your own shot.

Truer words have never been spoken, Ben. There were many a moment when I was on a golf course in my capacity as an employee where my mind would wander off into golf architecture dreamland. My last job in golf was as GM of a brand spanking new 9 hole mom and pop where most mornings I would arrive at the crack of dawn to open up the course. The first task was to fill the igloo with ice water and run it out to the 5th tee, the farthest point from the clubhouse. Three things I'd do on the drive back to the shop: stop at maintenance and say good morning to Chuck the mechanic; then drive over to the 9th tee and sit and stare at the ducks while the steam was rising off the pond. I would sit in awe of the beauty of the place. The undulations in the fairway, the shaping of the bunkers up ahead which were sort of a grass faced Rossnor style; and lastly, I would drive over to the practice green and wait for my friend David Helton to finish up with his clean up lap. He'd cut the engine and we'd talk, just the two of us, alone out on this gorgeous green field with a creek flowing through the middle of it. David was the super from the very beginning, overseeing construction and grow-in of the golf course. He understood golf architecture and he shared a lot of his knowledge with me. The 3 years I spent there were incredible for a lot of reasons. Mostly because I learned everything I possibly could about a golf course. How to play it, how it was built, how it was maintained, how to market it, and how to have fun with what we had. Just a little 9 holer in Seymour, Tennessee owned by a couple of golf fanatics who gave me the reigns and said giddyup! I spent the winters there ordering golf architecture books on amazon and reading links magazine and this website called golf club atlas. This was 3-4 years before I joined the dg. Good times. Sorry for the long post. It was nice to go back and think about the days when the subject really excited me.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 02:54:15 PM by Eric Smith »

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2012, 03:20:24 PM »
I never thought a '47 Petrus could possibly be significantly better or dramatically different than an '83 Mouton......until I tasted it...
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 03:22:09 PM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2012, 03:22:43 PM »
I doubt one can reduce the answer to a checklist.
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2012, 03:40:55 PM »
Mac,

I debated starting a new thread for this, but decided to include it here instead.  I think your question is a good one because it sort of asks the question, "Why are we here"...literally speaking as it refers to being an active member of this website.  In my mind the reality is there is no one right answer and as David says there really is no one-size-fits-all checklist.

Its all about "What blows your hair back" to quote a line from Good Will Hunting....and pursuing whatever it is that really interests you.

But even more, the essence of this site, at least to me is summed up far better than I ever could, which comes from the same movie...which to me its all about getting out there, seeing stuff, taking it all in, processing it and actually interfacing with something or someone new:


Sean McGuire (Robin Williams): You’re just a kid, you don’t have the faintest idea of what you’re talking about.
Will: Why thank you.
Sean: It’s all right. You’ve never been out of Boston?
Will: Nope.
Sean: So if I asked you about art, you’d probably give me the skinny on every art book ever written. Michelangelo. You know a lot about him; life’s work, political aspirations, him and the pope, sexual orientation, the whole works, right? I bet you can’t tell me what it smells like in the Cistine chapel. You’ve never actually stood there and looked up with that beautiful ceiling, seen that.

If I asked you about women, you’d probably give me a syllabus of your personal favorites. You may even have been laid a few times, but you can’t tell me what it feels like to wake up next to a woman and feel truly happy.

You’re a tough kid. I ask you about war, you’d probably throw Shakespeare at me, right? “Once more into the march, dear friends.” But you’ve never been near one. You’ve never held your best friend’s head in your lap and watch him gasp his last breath, looking to you for help.

I ask you about love, you’d probably quote me a sonnet. But you’ve never looked at a woman and been totally vulnerable, known someone who could level you with her eyes. Feeling like God put an angel on Earth just for you, who could rescue you from the depths of hell. And you wouldn’t know what it’s like to be her angel, to have that love for her be there forever, through anything, through cancer. And you wouldn’t know about sleeping sitting up in a hospital room for two months holding her hand ’cause the doctors could see in your eyes that the terms visiting hours don’t apply to you. You don’t know about real loss, ’cause that only occurs when you love something more than yourself. I doubt you’ve ever dared to love anybody that much.

I look at you, I don’t see an intelligent, confident man, I see a cocky, scared-shitless kid. But you’re a genius, Will, no one denies that. No one could possibly understand the depths of you, but you presume to know everything about me because you saw a painting of mine. You ripped my life apart.

You’re an orphan right? Do you think I’d know the first thing about how hard your life has been, how you feel, who you are, because I read Oliver Twist? Does that encapsulate you? Personally, I don’t give a shit about all that because you know what? I can’t learn anything from you I can’t read in some book unless you want to talk about you, who you are. And I’m fascinated, I’m in. But you don’t want to do that do you sport? You’re terrified of what you might say. You’re move chief.



« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 03:42:56 PM by Kalen Braley »

Anthony Gray

Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2012, 03:48:11 PM »
One reason that I find myself happier than most critics is that I tend to learn like a dog screws.  Anyone who has played with me knows exactly what I am saying.  I honestly do not understand the need to do anything more than enjoy each individual moment the course presents.  Trying to soak in too much at once gets my mind all knotted up and if you have ever owned a dog you know that leads to nothing but trouble.  

I can't imagine a movie critic, whose responsibility it is to reveal which movies are best seen, stopping a movie midway and changing seats.  Your angle is your angle, embrace it and go with the flow.

  The dog sex is a good analogy. I just don't know why.

  Anthony


Peter Pallotta

Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2012, 03:57:41 PM »
Mac - one thing I'm sure of, best practices don't include slumping half asleep on the coach with a cup of coffee and a smoke watching the pros play yet another pga tour stop. I've tried that for years, and haven't learned a darn thing!!

But I think that sometimes it's best not to do anything at all.  What I mean is this: You've played many courses, read many books, explored your thoughts and feelings and likes and dislikes and put them down on paper, travelled to the home of golf and played the great Scottish links, and asked many questions of the masters  -- all of which is exactly what someone like Tom D did in the late 70s and early 80s, and before he'd written 'The Confidential Guide".

And what did Tom know/learn about gca back then that you don't/haven't now?  I'd suggest not all that much -- maybe a few 'facts', maybe even a few 'theories', but not a whole lot.  Instead, I'd suggest that the real difference between you is simply this: that at some point Tom said to himself "This is what I believe to be great golf course architecture", and then decided to fully trust and embrace that point of view and his own personal tastes and opinions; while you (and I, and many other 'students') never have.

We keep looking outside of ourselves and asking "What is it? Where is it?"  I'm all for life-long learning and all that, but I wonder: when do you (or I or others) stop asking ourselves that question? When will we ever feel like we know enough to judge/decide for ourselves?    I think the answer to that is binary: we either decide to to say 'yes' to our insights/opinions, or we don't.  

Peter

John Chilver-Stainer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2012, 05:21:12 PM »
If we’re talking about understanding the playability characteristics of golf course architecture and not the aesthetics, agronomy or engineering then as mentioned by Ben Sims, I find watching the course and other golfers can reveal a far greater variety of shot permutations than just playing it yourself.

Some of my most educational golf architecture experiences have been following the British Open on the classic links and observing the different players and how they interact with the course. Just as educational is chatting with fellow observers, and discussing their views on the different situations.

This year at the final day of the Dunhill Cup on the Old Course, I watched Rory and Graeme playing to the 14th.  Graeme played his second to a safe lie and had a good look at the hole for his 3rd shot.
Rory went for broke and tried to hit the green with a driver off the deck and missed slightly to the right catching a steeper hump slowing his ball up and leaving himself a nasty lie. An interesting comparison and how the subtleties of the golf course can affect the outcomes.

On the 18th at TOC it was interesting how Rory chose to drive right and approach the pin avoiding the valley of sin but having to negotiate the trickier slippery down slope of the green, whereas others preferred to go left and either lob over or run through the valley of sin against the slope.

If you take the time to analyse and think in depth why such subtleties affect the play then you’ll not only learn you’ll also understand.

For the mellower view, sip some single malt simultaneously and enhance the sublime spirit.     

Anthony Gray

Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2012, 05:43:02 PM »


  Experiencing it first hand is the best.



Don_Mahaffey

Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2012, 06:11:29 PM »
For me, it was when I learned about function. They say form follows function, and I believe that is true with good design.  When I see form that drove function, a lake above surrounding terrain, built up land forms that serve as places to chisel a bunker out of, I'm not a fan. Form that follows function well is invisible, function imposed on the land stands out, in a negative way, at least to me.
I think to really study architecture you have to have some idea about what it took to get the holes into the ground.

brad_miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2012, 06:19:02 PM »
Mac, keep playing the greats, like reading the great books no reason to do much else. Read all the old interviews on the web site, many of the early ones are gems. Read many of Ran's Courses by Country, he has one of the best eyes in the world for GCA. For years I tried to read almost everything that Doak posted....

C. Squier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2012, 06:34:01 PM »
I never thought a '47 Petrus could possibly be significantly better or dramatically different than an '83 Mouton......until I tasted it...

You had the wrong Mouton by a year....

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2012, 08:32:10 PM »
It may sound trite, but consider not thinking of your passion as an education or educational process.  Try thinking more along the lines of playing a game.  Don't worry so much about the specific fields of play and concentrate more on play.

Pay attention to how savy (generally older) golfers play courses. 

Watch kids (of all abilities) whack it round.

Look for features rather than at holes.  Try to find the one feature on a hole which makes the difference.

Keep an open mind about aesthetics - focus more on playability and aspects of function. 

Pay attention to details such as transition zones, grass cut lines and how holes move into the background.

Look at the shaping and try to figure out how it may support the design. 

Ask if less could have been built without integral loss to the design.   

Look for good architecture on mediocre terrain. 

Distinguish between good architecture and a good course. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2012, 08:51:19 PM »

In short, what are the best practices for learning about golf and golf course architecture?


Golf must be played to be learned...diferent courses, conditions, same courses, diferent conditions...

Some here may believe GCA is objective and to a large degree it is and to some degree it isn't...you must experience architecture at 6 am and 6 pm, in the winter and in the summer and everything in between..you will find truths become truer over time

For great architecture is may sunny or it may be raining, listening for the Sub Air system is that great architecture? Natural light or light bulbs?

The ground (or canvas) is a large part of great golf and archirecture so follow the dunes.... ;)
It's all about the golf!

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2012, 09:22:00 AM »
Thanks for the inputs.  Many of them I will try to incorporate immediately.  I thought about typing up replys to everyone's post, but I thought they may be too long.  But I did want to touch on what Peter said.

Peter I agree with the sentiment on your post.  In fact it reminds me of an old saying...“A man who is dumb, but knows he is dumb is wise.  A man who is dumb but thinks he is smart, is an idiot.  A man who is smart, but thinks he is dumb is a fool.”  

Or something like that.  

And in that vein, I know what I know about golf courses and I know what I don't know.  I've played many, studied many, and visit some in different climates.  I can make observations and I am good at observing, so I am comfortable sharing what I see.  But I haven't been involved in the planning, consturction, and maintenance of a golf course.  So, I am not an expert.

And I wonder how many of us on this site are experts and how many of us simply try to act like one...rather than discuss observations they talk like they know it all.  Like the John K's said, they are golfers not analyzers.  Nothing wrong with that at all...in fact, I find that awesome.  But my brain is naturally inclined to analyze.  I analyze everything...all the time.  Can't help it.  So, I embrace it.

Thanks guys...great posts!!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2012, 10:34:24 AM »

Mac

First knowing how to play golf or which off-chute variation you favour, because they are different.

Melvyn


Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Practices for Learning about Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2012, 10:36:51 AM »
Read, watch, listen and ask questions after the first 3. Do not talk.

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