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Ronald Montesano

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Quotes To Live By In 2012
« on: December 25, 2011, 07:25:03 AM »
"On my first day in Scotland, he took me out to look at the mixture of fescue and bentgrass and poa annua which made up the second green of The Old Course, and I told Walter that the average American would probably complain that it wasnít uniform. He replied that a good player would see the difference, and allow for it. In a nutshell, thatís the Scots attitude toward any obstacle on a golf course."


The first part of this thread is to offer a quote that will establish a goal for the coming year and explain what you plan to do about it. For me, I've long elevated/appreciated result at the expense of material and vow to cease and desist in 2012.

The second part of this thread is to identify the golf-related babe or dude with whom the quote originated. This one is a medium on the scale, I think.

Since we have a number of quotable dudes on this forum, if the quote is yours, shut the hell up!
Coming in August 2023
~Manakiki
~OSU Scarlet
~OSU Grey
~NCR South
~Springfield
~Columbus
~Lake Forest (OH)
~Sleepy Hollow (OH)

Ken Moum

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Re: Quotes To Live By In 2012
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2011, 09:58:47 AM »
Re. your question:

Most designers imagine a golf hole is all rough, and only put the fairway where they want the golfer to go; I imagine a golf hole is all fairway, and just put bunkers and rough where they will make it more interesting.[/i

This might be my new mantra....

K
« Last Edit: December 25, 2011, 10:36:01 AM by Ken Moum »
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Mike McGuire

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Re: Quotes To Live By In 2012
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2011, 02:37:41 PM »
Tom Doak wrote that.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Quotes To Live By In 2012
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2011, 04:37:05 PM »
These are two of my favorites.  The first is one where all of us who call ourselves designers fall far short of the goal; the second is one we have a bit more hope of living up to.

Every fresh hole we play should teach us some new possibility of using our strokes and suggest to us a further step int he progress of our golfing knowledge.


"The educated taste admires simplicity of design and sound workmanship for their own sake rather than overdecoration and the crowding of artificial hazards.

Let's hope they like that last one in Rio.

JMEvensky

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Re: Quotes To Live By In 2012
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2011, 04:43:24 PM »


"The educated taste admires simplicity of design and sound workmanship for their own sake rather than overdecoration and the crowding of artificial hazards.



Delete the word hazards and this line works for everything--not just golf courses.

Joshua Pettit

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Re: Quotes To Live By In 2012
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2011, 05:31:30 PM »
For the 0.0001%

"In large measure, the popularity which the game of golf will enjoy in the future depends on the quality of courses we provide for the players of the future."


For the 99.9999%

"Every golfer worthy of the name should have some acquaintance with the principles of golf course design, not only for the betterment of the game, but for his own selfish enjoyment.  Let him know a good hole from a bad one and the reasons for a bunker here and another there, and he will be a long way towards pulling his score down to respectable limits.  When he has taught himself to study a hole from the point of view of the man who laid it out, he will be much more likely to play it correctly."

Both courtesy of RTJ
"The greatest and fairest of things are done by nature, and the lesser by art."

JMEvensky

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Re: Quotes To Live By In 2012
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2011, 05:37:07 PM »


"Every golfer worthy of the name should have some acquaintance with the principles of golf course design, not only for the betterment of the game, but for his own selfish enjoyment.  Let him know a good hole from a bad one and the reasons for a bunker here and another there, and he will be a long way towards pulling his score down to respectable limits.  When he has taught himself to study a hole from the point of view of the man who laid it out, he will be much more likely to play it correctly."

Both courtesy of RTJ


Looks like RTJ thinks there's an audience for a Golf Channel show about architecture.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Quotes To Live By In 2012
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2011, 06:39:05 PM »
Applause to Mike McGuire for id'ing my quote:  http://www.renaissancegolf.com/tom_doak/lessons_from_my_mentors/

Any IDs for the other quotes yet?

Tom Doak, I'm going with Dr. Mackenzie for your two quotes.
Coming in August 2023
~Manakiki
~OSU Scarlet
~OSU Grey
~NCR South
~Springfield
~Columbus
~Lake Forest (OH)
~Sleepy Hollow (OH)

Ken Moum

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Re: Quotes To Live By In 2012
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2011, 09:00:32 PM »
It's not s golf quote, but the editor in me likes this one....  And I certainly think it applies to GCA:

"In anything at all, perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away..."

Which is a translation from French:

"Il semble que la perfection soit atteinte non quand il n'y a plus rien ŗ ajouter, mais quand il n'y a plus rien ŗ retrancher"

K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Quotes To Live By In 2012
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2011, 09:43:52 PM »
from the Steve Jobs Biography


Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication

The best way to predict the future is to invent it

I love it when you can bring really great design and simple capability to something that doesnít cost much
« Last Edit: December 25, 2011, 09:50:39 PM by Don_Mahaffey »

Mike_Young

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Re: Quotes To Live By In 2012
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2011, 10:11:22 PM »
Here's three for ya:

Future of Golf Design:
"Even though I build buildings and I pursue my architecture, I pursue it as an artist. I deliberately keep a tiny studio. I don't want to be an architectural firm. I want to remain an artist. "
Maya Lin

Golf Club Atlas:
"Architecture theory is very interesting. "
David Byrne

Is golf design architectural?:
"A structure becomes architectural, and not sculptural, when its elements no longer have their justification in nature. "
Guillaume Apollinaire
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Quotes To Live By In 2012
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2011, 10:33:43 PM »
"If you don't embrace failure you run from success."

Me.  I do enjoy myself.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Quotes To Live By In 2012
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2011, 11:19:42 PM »
Tom Doak, I'm going with Dr. Mackenzie for your two quotes.

Ronald:

Neither of the quotes I gave are from Dr. MacKenzie, but you can find both of them in The Anatomy of a Golf Course if you know where to look.  The first one is from a lesser-known source.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Quotes To Live By In 2012 New
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2011, 09:13:08 AM »
Ron - I'm going very far afield here, with a long quote that is acquainted with the topic only in passing.  But I like it, and I think it captures something:

[Start Quote] 'Good Works' in the plural is an expression much more familiar to modern Christendom than 'good work.' Good works are chiefly almsgiving or 'helping' in the parish. They are quite separate from one's 'work.' And good works need not be good work, as anyone can see by inspecting some of the objects made to be sold at bazaars for charitable purposes. This is not according to our example. When our Lord provided a poor wedding party with an extra glass of wine all around, he was doing good works. But also good work; it was a wine really worth drinking. Nor is the neglect of goodness in our 'work,' our job, according to precept. The apostle says everyone must not only work but work to produce what is 'good.'

The idea of Good Work is not quite extinct among us, though it is not, I fear, especially characteristic of religious people. I have found it among cabinetmakers, cobblers, and sailors. It is no use at all trying to impress sailors with a new liner because she is the biggest or costliest ship afloat. They look for what they call her 'lines': they predict how she will behave in a heavy sea. Artists also talk of Good Work; but decreasingly. They begin to prefer words like 'significant,' 'important', 'contemporary,' or 'daring.' These are not, to my mind, good symptoms.

But the great mass of men in all fully industrialised societies are the victims of a situation which almost excludes the idea of Good Work from the outset. 'Built-in obsolescence' becomes an economic necessity. Unless an article is so made that it will go to pieces in a year or two and thus have to be replaced, you will not get a sufficient turnover. A hundred years ago, when a man got married, he had built for him (if he were rich enough) a carriage in which he expected to drive for the rest of his life. He now buys a car which he expects to sell again in two years. Work nowadays must not be good.

For the wearer, zip fasteners have this advantage over buttons: that, while they last, they will save him an infinitesimal amount of time and trouble. For the producer, they have a much more solid merit; they don't remain in working order long. Bad work is the desideratum.

We must avoid taking a glibly moral view of this situation. It is not solely the result of original or actual sin. It has stolen upon us, unforeseen and unintended. The degraded commercialism of our minds is quite as much its result as its cause. Nor can it, in my opinion, be cured by purely moral efforts. [End Quote]

There is the ethos of ideal gca (the 'good works'), and then there is the actual work, on the ground (good work).  The ethos is easy to articulate; but there are many forces at work both inside and outside of us that make 'good work' hard to achieve.    
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 06:48:35 PM by PPallotta »

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Quotes To Live By In 2012
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2011, 05:12:00 PM »
Tom,
The quotes you posted from John Low and Wethered/Simpson aren't the only thought provokers you have in your book.

I enjoyed another by Wethered/Simpson that introduces the chapter on construction, and Tom Watson's intro to chapter 14 is one that has a lot of relevance for today. His is much shorter than W/Ss so I'll type it in:

"If a course needs to be in great condition to be played effectively, then the design strategy is flawed"

PP,
'Good work' is also connected to giving a person a 'good' amount of time to acheive it. 
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 05:15:58 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

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